Is his "skill" overrated ? Everytime i saw his clips i couldn't find even one brilliant moment. Sure he got lots of goals for a defender, but his defending isn't even half of Baresi's
BunDEADliga
BB was a unique player, and thanks to gerd muller he had a very successful career. he was also a spectecular youngster, a briljant midfielder who couldn´t hold his position and naturally shifted to the box.
in other words, his marketing for the world audience couldn´t have been better. he was perhaps the best playmaking defender of the 20th century. but indeed, he was no baresi. schwarzenbeck and vogts would do the dirty work. bb would rake up a nice amount of interceptions though, thanks to his reading skills.
when you watch the bb videos on youtube, it does makes you question his efficiency.
in other words, his marketing for the world audience couldn´t have been better. he was perhaps the best playmaking defender of the 20th century. but indeed, he was no baresi. schwarzenbeck and vogts would do the dirty work. bb would rake up a nice amount of interceptions though, thanks to his reading skills.
when you watch the bb videos on youtube, it does makes you question his efficiency.
He was one of the more versatile German midfielders of the mid\late 60s, but there were clearly better creative players and also superior "ironlung" type destroyers and tireless box to box types.
In the end it was a good idea to move back to a sweeper\ball playing defender role.
Is he overrated? depends on the context.you'll get people who say no defender could pass or play as cerebrally as him, which is nonsense, but at the same time there aren't many of his type of defender that were more successful and as he was obviously a very talented player and important member of those sides...well he's a worthy enough player to be considered the best in that position.
Ticks a lot of boxes.
Do i think Germany and Bayern would suddenly have struggled notably more in that position and\or not won the things they did if we were somehow able to replay all their games with Bruno Pezzey, Alan Hansen, Alexandr Chivadze etc instead of him? Nah, not really, but in the end it's beside the point.
In the end it was a good idea to move back to a sweeper\ball playing defender role.
Is he overrated? depends on the context.you'll get people who say no defender could pass or play as cerebrally as him, which is nonsense, but at the same time there aren't many of his type of defender that were more successful and as he was obviously a very talented player and important member of those sides...well he's a worthy enough player to be considered the best in that position.
Ticks a lot of boxes.
Do i think Germany and Bayern would suddenly have struggled notably more in that position and\or not won the things they did if we were somehow able to replay all their games with Bruno Pezzey, Alan Hansen, Alexandr Chivadze etc instead of him? Nah, not really, but in the end it's beside the point.
What's a shame is that now with the advent of Youtube and extensive videos "skill" now is limited to flashy tricks, running extremely fast and some showy dribbling. The "skill" of thinking and making decisions on the field and commanding a game don't really come through on a 4:32 minute long video compilation.
So thus you get these ridiculous threads about legendary players of the game suddenly being labeled overrated.
If Pele can be labled overrated then anybody can.
So thus you get these ridiculous threads about legendary players of the game suddenly being labeled overrated.
If Pele can be labled overrated then anybody can.
Are you saying: 'Beckenbauer didn't give us one moment of brilliance in his whole career'... :err: and/or 'you do not rate Beckenbauer's defensive ability'...?
If you are doing a player vs player comparison, I think many footballers would fall short of Franco Baresi's defensive quality.
I think there is a disease going around the youth here that to show they are super knowledgeable about the game and its history they have to prove that some legend was overrated or not even that good to begin with.
The shit some clowns write about George Best is tragic comedy. Or Ferenc Puskas. Or Pele.........and so on.
The shit some clowns write about George Best is tragic comedy. Or Ferenc Puskas. Or Pele.........and so on.
For anybody who plays football they would tell you that players like Franz Beckenbauer or Gerd Müller are actually massively underrated - their abilities are special, genius and peerless 
roud:
A modern football fan would say, "Müller is a limited tap-in striker" or "Beckenbauer's passing and tackling ability is poor compared to the video I saw of Mats Hummels on YouTube"alm:
Sad times indeed - a generation bred on computers games and the internet :frownani:
roud:A modern football fan would say, "Müller is a limited tap-in striker" or "Beckenbauer's passing and tackling ability is poor compared to the video I saw of Mats Hummels on YouTube"
alm:Sad times indeed - a generation bred on computers games and the internet :frownani:
And then begin discussing how much the player runs during a match as if that determines greatness.
a young squire walks into the house of the village elders.
"i might have found proof that god doesn´t exist".
"calm down and show us what you´ve found" one of the elder responds.
"perhaps god is just a man" the youngster claims, while showing his evidence.
"one should always put a hypothesis into detailed perspective" the other elder notes.
then abruptly, the village abbot barges in, together with his militants.
"horseshit! this diabolical proof shall not go into detail! none shall discuss beckenbauer videos anymore in this thread. heretics! off with your heads or conform!"
"i might have found proof that god doesn´t exist".
"calm down and show us what you´ve found" one of the elder responds.
"perhaps god is just a man" the youngster claims, while showing his evidence.
"one should always put a hypothesis into detailed perspective" the other elder notes.
then abruptly, the village abbot barges in, together with his militants.
"horseshit! this diabolical proof shall not go into detail! none shall discuss beckenbauer videos anymore in this thread. heretics! off with your heads or conform!"
Forget conformity. I hate it.
Just don't write such ignorant uniformed horseshIt and consider it a knowledgeable idea.
And I am not refering to you, just responding to you since you seem to support this kind of thread.
Just don't write such ignorant uniformed horseshIt and consider it a knowledgeable idea.
And I am not refering to you, just responding to you since you seem to support this kind of thread.
Someone say something smart to prevent me to move this thread to the basement with all Villlage elders, idiots and conformists.
All here know my opinion
I think the best defender in history was Elías Figueroa.
Beckenbauer said: I am the European Figueroa
But certainly Beckenbauer is the most influential libero of all time.
Beckenbauer was able to invent a style of play in their position.
That is a merit because Beckenbauer is not any player.
I think the best defender in history was Elías Figueroa.
Beckenbauer said: I am the European Figueroa
But certainly Beckenbauer is the most influential libero of all time.
Beckenbauer was able to invent a style of play in their position.
That is a merit because Beckenbauer is not any player.
Did you also consider a possibility that instead of blaming Beckenbauer, it´s your own inability to spot moment of brilliance that sucks ?
For every RATIONAL football fan, player who score goals and prevent others from doing so is a ****ing ace because he´s a game winner. Maybe Beckenbauer wasnt defending as flashy as Baresi, but his defending was as effective and in addition, Beckenbauer was better footballer.
Not to mention, youtube clips usually show succesfull actions of each footballer. While Franco Baresi was a God of a defensman, he was quite limited footballer who didnt pose much of a threat upfront, which is also a reason why youtube clips solely focus on his defensive actions. Beckenbauer´s was all-rounder and his clips reflect that.
Tackling ain't defining class of a defender.
Best defenders dont need to tackle and stay on their feets, rather relying on their assets like game reading, positioning, dont giving up fouls in dangerous areas, shepherding their men to safe areas etc. Tackling usually makes up for lack of something mentioned above. Unsuccesfull tackling can lead to own goals, yellows, red cards, fouls in dangerous areas, increasing risk of injury etc.
See also these stats:
Baresi: 573 games played, 19 goals scored, 9 OGs, 33 yellow cards, 2 red cards
Beckenbauer: 645 games played, 68 goals scored, 4 OGs, 7 yellow cards, 0 red cards
BunDEADliga, nothing personal but you should little educate yourself before questioning all-time greats and making an bold statements. If you believe that Beckenbauer = goals only, then you have obvioiusly no clue about Beckenbauer. You cant even wonder that everyone slams you when you are exposing your lack of knowledge that way. Making your opinion on wat ching few Beckenbauer clips, really ? :googly: I recommend you to read f.e. Sepp Maier´s book and his account on Franz the Kaiser. No wonder became a measure stick for a defender.
@ others please, I think we should be more mercifull in our judgments when a newbies come, nobody´s perfect. He could be 16yo kid. I wouldnt want my kids being treated like this. Stay polite please.
Btw welcome aboard, BunDEADliga.
@ others please, I think we should be more mercifull in our judgments when a newbies come, nobody´s perfect. He could be 16yo kid. I wouldnt want my kids being treated like this. Stay polite please.
Btw welcome aboard, BunDEADliga.
At least Cambiasso won something for inter, try to tell him djorkaeff was a poor man Gourguff and you will see a revolution.
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