Ferrara will always be remembered by Juve fans while Billy will be remembered by Milan fans plus football enthusiasts for being a part of a certain Milans defense.

 

Look what the cat dragged in :tongue:

To give you a little background, Tifo here is desperate to win an argument over at our place Juventuz and he needs your help. :tongue:

 

i really think theres too little to pick between the two. theyve both had pretty much the same amount of success both for club and country. i think to determine who was better youd need to take a real in-depth look at their careers and im talking about every little detail. thats how close they are, at least in my view.

 

First I would like to introduce myself as a RESPECTABLE AND NON-THREATENING MILAN FAN..

Then unfortunately you won't fit in with the rest of your Milanisti ilk here.

 

I'm not in any way going to deny that Costacurta has a great CV and that he was a very good defender in his heyday (and still is decent also).

However- Costacurta was never the leader of Milan's defence. His fame and results rests in no small part with having had the opportunity to play with all-time Italian greats like Baresi and Maldini.

Ferrara stood out as a defensive leader even back in his Napoli years, and has mashalled Juve for many years. Also having fine partners like Vierchewood and Montero, but it's not quite the same even if the beast marker was supreme at what he did. We got him too late for Ferrara to benefit anyway near the way Costacurta did from Baresi for instance.

Individually- I cannot see how Costacurta could stack up with Ciro. Not in terms of marking. Not in terms of organizing defence. Not in terms of much actually. In my view it's just as clear as the fact that Ciro cannot measure up with Maldini.

 

costacurta surely did benefit from playing with baresi but that cant be held against him. not having played with baresi might have resulted in a lesser career for him but we dont really know that. after all, the same could be said about maldini with baresi but to a lesser extent.

 

glen,

thats not his fault and who is to know if billy would of become a leader or not had he not had baresi there.

no one would of pictured gatusso to be our midfield leader but since trio left its clear the lil man is our leader...just like the same can be said at arsenal...where viera was petit's partner and then petit left and viera became the best DM in the world....baresi left late and by then paolo was far more charismatic and was the natural heir billy never had a chance to be a leader.

 

I've posted this in 8 different forums: the score thus far is Costacurta 18 Ciro Ferrara 5...

But most of the Ferrara votes are from Juve fans...13 of the Costacurta votes are on Real, ManU and french football sites...but thanks the replies guys. Appreciated.

By the way....to Look-what-the-cat-dragged-in I was actually trying an experiment as I said I would do. It seems like I was right

Watch for the posting of results and links.

 

Count me in for Ciro = 6. Costacurta has played with Baresi for a loooong time and Baresi saved him from lots of poor figures.

And perhaps it's better if you do not consider the supporters of foreign clubs... just a suggestion, cause they usually have no clue. :tongue:

 

I can show you that I am not always biased by saying that I think Ferrara is slightly the better player. Many of us Milan fans get a bit nostalgic talking about the time when we where at our best and when an oldie like Billy still can cope with top level football. they are both "silent heroes", maybe moreso for Billy who always been in the shadow of greater players.

Maybe a bit unfair since we compare with Juve (and Napolis) best defender of this time with Milans third best.

 

Ciro

 

Ferrara, without doubt.

 

Maradona biased view on his former Napoli mate: "Ciro once told me he´s the best defender in the world; and he´s probably right."

Crespo just a few years ago on a question about the best Serie A defenders: "Costacurta is the most annoying defender to be up against in Serie A."

I think it´s a close call.. It´s ridiculous to neglect Costacurta´s importance for Milan and Italy in his prime.. He played with Baresi and Maldini, but as Luigi pointed out, that shouldn´t be held against him.. Well unless you lack better arguments..

I don´t have the answer.. Spontaneously I would say Costacurta.. And most Juventini would say Scirea and not Baresi; the Interisti would pick Facchetti ahead of Maldini and Mazzola ahead of Rivera etc. etc.

 

Maradona biased view on his former Napoli mate: "Ciro once told me he´s the best defender in the world; and he´s probably right."

I've seen this quote a number of times and it was always the other way around. "Ferrara is the best defender I have played with and I told him that". So which is it?

 

Well, in the danish translation of Diego´s biography, 'El Diego', I´m sure it´s: "Ferrara once told me" and so on.

What a humble guy, Ciro..

 

And by the way, I think it has to be said that Ferrara and Diego lived in the same apartment block.... And Maradona... Well he always talks non-sense, doesn´t he?

 

Amusements aside , I think Ciro probably is a better defender than Billy. Though slightly.

On the other hand, it is unfair to attribute Billy's adventures at Milan to baresi and maldini. The Milan of Invincibles was achieved by the contributions of all that played at the back and not just due to baresi and maldini. It was a complete package which I doubt would ever be repeated.

 

I wasn't trying to demerit Costacurta because he's played with better defenders. I'm saying that as a player, not part of the defensive unit, Ferrara has stood out more.

I see Milan fans saying how "Juve fans would choose Ciro, and Milan fans would choose Costacurta". No Juve fans are saying that... simply because it's not about bias.

Even at this late stage of their respective carreers- Ciro has been the best central defender at Juventus in the past two seasons (not this one, but the seasons before that) and was a toss up with Montero before that. Billy has been a liability apart from his cameo appearances last year. Before Milan aquired Nesta to make Billy nothing but a sub- Milan fans were dreading games where Billy had to start.

As an individual defender- Costacurta was always good. As part of THE unit- he was surely great. But most competent defenders would be. Ciro is on another level.

Laudrup: What is that re-write of the Maradona quote doing here? The man talks garbage nearly all the time. There's no need to misrepresent his views to make a point. The quote is like Martin put it.

 

And what point did a try to make with that 're-write of the Maradona quote', Glen?:googly:

One of your arguments is:

His fame and results rests in no small part with having had the opportunity to play with all-time Italian greats like Baresi and Maldini.

And Maldini is great the last few years most of all due to Nesta´s presence in Milan´s team, right? Does that way of wanting to see things by any chance have anything to do with a certain Nedved and the Golden Ball?

Btw. Who in your opinion is greater of Scirea and Baresi? Would you by any chance use the classic argument of Scirea being picked in the NT ahead of Baresi?

Perhaps you´d feel different, see things from different perspectives if you´re a Milanista?

But please go on denying that you´re biased.. You may very well be able to convince yourself and a few others..

 

Laudrup: Baresi was only coming into his own when he was a bencher in '82. Scirea was in his prime. It would be a non-argument going in that direction.

Scirea IS underrated internationally though; in part because Juventus only won the one 'champions cup' whereas the great Milan with Baresi as the captain won several. Another (tragic) reason is that Scirea's legacy is not kept up to date by his presence in the football world today. Like Beckenbaur especially, but also players like Baresi, Cruyiff, Platini etc. etc. etc. are still part of the football scene and are reverred as such. People who are too young to remember see them, ask around how they did- pick up tapes if they're enthusiasts etc. Gaetano Scirea inspires little such attention :sob: . I believe he IS rated all the way up there by Italians (and International fans) who remember seing him play. At least- that's been my impression.

As for ability- I think Scirea deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Maldini, but I guess there's only one Baresi. At least- the Baresi before the twilight years. It's unfortunate that he didn't age with the same grace Maldini, Ciro and Sensini do. But Baresi in his prime is the best defender I have ever seen in my life. Full stop.

Maldini has obviously proffitted immensely from Nesta's presence. It would be absurd arguing otherwise. Paolo's presence has also enabled Nesta to focus on doing his defensive tasks even better, because Maldini steps in to do lots of the coverage Nesta used to do allover the entire Lazio defence.

What point you tried to make with the Maradona thing? It was obviously a misrepresentation. A write down of Ferrara's skill? The point about him being 'modest'.. albeit a joke... adding to the sentiment.

I am biased. Everyone is to some extent. Some consciously- some not. In this case I just don't think it's close enough to be in doubt.

I consider Ciro clearly the better defender. It seems to me that the few respondents in this topic who aren't Milan or Juve fans have felt the same.

 

I hold Billy Costacurta in high regard and I think he is and continues to be under-appreciated and under-rated. To be honest I would not even put Ferrara close to him. Because:
- Ferrara's presence and contribution to the National Team is pathetic and non-existent. vs. Costacurta being selected at 23 years old and playing right up until the days of Zoff. (The Baresi theory is a bit unfounded because he continued playing on the National Team without him).
- Ferrara played on teams that will be remembered for offence more than defence...Maradona, Cannigia..Zidane, Del Piero, Inzaghi. I think he is a crowd favorite at Juve for his personality rather than skill. He kind of had to re-invent himself.
- Costacurta was and remained part of the strongest Defence of our generation. The defence unit was shuffled often. If Costacurta was not doing his job they would have shipped him off like they did many others. Also he is much more of classy and finesse defender than Ciro who plays very rough and "stop at all costs defender": Costacurta (even today) is still at a great level today because of his excellent positioning and fine touches. Ciro certainly lacks that and the over-all general defender quality present in Costacurta.
IMO Costacurta wins.

 

Glen...though they may sound ridiculous...Nesta also profited from Maldini's presence. His transition was not smooth the first few months. He had a great teacher and defender to back up his errors.

 

Ferrara. Costacurta was always overrated in my opinion. Even at his prime.

 

ACMilanMontreal: (or are you the topic starter with another profile?)....I said as much. Great players benefit from eachother.

Ferrara's NT record cannot be compared to Costacurta's. That's obvious. For those who don't know what the two men have done in serieA... a mix-up in terms of quailty could be understood.

Three reasons:

1: Ferrara was in the squad for WC 1990 and played against England, injured leading up to WC 1994, broke his left leg before the WC 1998. After having been a regular in the qualifiers.

Just to underline- this is a presentation of the Italy team from CNN before the 1998 WC:

"Ciro Ferrara (Juventus), 31, 44 caps.
Out with a broken left leg but fighting to get back in shape for France. If he makes it, will be Maldini's first-choice sweeper. Experienced player who joined Juventus in 1994 after decade at Diego Maradona-inspired Napoli. "
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/world/events/1998/worldcup/teams/italy/player_profiles.html


2: With Baresi and Maldini there was a very consistant Milan core in the NT at many stages (include Tassotti and it's a banker). It made sense selecting Costacurta ahead of Ferrara at times (specifically in 1994 when Milan had just won the CL again), because the Milan players formed a superb unit already from their club teams.

3: Ferrara was a right back until 1994 when he followed Lippi to Juve. The right back position was previously occupied by the NT captain. Bergomi of course, who was more high profile than Ferrara seing how Ferrara had made his name at Napoli, whereas Bergomi was the man at Inter.


Ferrara was even injured for the 1996 EURO. This man is one of the unluckiest and most underrated defenders in the business.

 

I think I have seen them both playing in their prime and post-prime, and both of them were and are simply great defenders and still do pretty well, when called upon.

It’s a very tough call and frankly I cant see myself making it now and here.

Its very hard to separate Billi's sports-life from the Ds he has played with. he was lucky, they say, but why wasn’t I there, or anyone else for that matter - it was him who stood with Baresi and Paolo for years. Stood their like a rock in what was the best D I haver seen in my life. And still does. Last game v. Chievo just confirmed the man is a wealth of experience and skills. He has driven me crazy but who hasn’t ...

Ciro has been the main D guy for, what is, I think, the best years Juve has ever had, with all respect to Platini and Co. - the Lippi years. Since 94, I think, till this very day. His unluck with the NT should not be holded against him.

Its not possible to say, I cant, I wont. Both are true living legends of two of the greatest clubs in their greatest times.

PS Amo, how many times I have to tell you are a Juventino undercover. :tongue: