You might be number one at one point but soccer would have to become the national sport for it to happen. Simply too much passion exists in too many countries for countries where it isn't a priority to win.

According to most Americans I speak to it isn't going to overtake Gridiron and Baseball there anytime soon. Long term I'm more worried about the Chinese potential for dominance unless this changes.

 

Say what?

 

After reading some ignorant comments on why the biggest baseball competition is called the "world series" i would like to clarify the reason it is called the world series. It is called the world series not because it has anything to do with geography or being a global competition but because the world series was organised by a new york based paper called at one time the NY WORLD newspaper and so they appropriatel called it The WORLD series....i'm not sure if the paper is still around or has just been renamed. I know this has little to do with soccer (football) but i wanted to get this out into the open for those people who have started a thread based on prejudice and ignorance. As to American soccer i think we are very underrated (ranked 11th last time i checked) baring in mind that we do have a relatively easy region (concacaff). i think in ten to fifteen years we will become a soccer power as we are 1.generally a sporting power (olympics anyone). 2. A very high population 300 million 3. A lot of money poured into sports at both amateur, university and proffessional levels 4. Growing enthusiasm in soccer.

Good luck, it's rather hard to have a great NT if the home league is very weak tough

 

As to American soccer i think we are very underrated (ranked 11th last time i checked) baring in mind that we do have a relatively easy region (concacaff). i think in ten to fifteen years we will become a soccer power as we are 1.generally a sporting power (olympics anyone). 2. A very high population 300 million 3. A lot of money poured into sports at both amateur, university and proffessional levels 4. Growing enthusiasm in soccer.

5. the hispanic influence on the country, growing by each day.

I also think 5-10 years from now US will be a "soccer power".

 

You might be number one at one point but soccer would have to become the national sport for it to happen. Simply too much passion exists in too many countries for countries where it isn't a priority to win.

According to most Americans I speak to it isn't going to overtake Gridiron and Baseball there anytime soon

I disagree i don't think soccer has to be the number one sport for us to be a soccer power. With our high population we are able to financially and culturally support multiple sports and still be successful at supporting quality players in the given sports. baseball, Basketball, US football, and hockey teams are valued at hundreds of millions of dollars. Player salaries in baseball, basketball, American Football, and hockey i think match or most of the time beat that of soccer stars in the big three leagues so i believe that we are able to support a lot of different sports in the US without it having to be the national sport. remember believe most of europes population can fit into the United States of America. if we have only a portion (ex. say 10 percent)of the sports fans in the US who liked soccer there would in many cases be more soccer supporters in the US than there would be more soccer supporters in the US than there would be in a lot of european nations.

Good luck, it's rather hard to have a great NT if the home league is very weak tough

I think you are underrating our home league. i think in comparison with the big three leagues we are not in their league but i think that we are expanding very quickly and remember the league is only 8 or so years old. and i seem to remember when some of the EPL middle table teams came to america in 2oo1 and 2002 to play some friendlies i remember the EPL teams were only able to win 5 out of the overall 9 games and there was overall only one draw

 

remember believe most of europes population can fit into the United States of America

Clarification: I meant to say Most of europes population would match that of the population of the united states

 

I think you are underrating our home league.

No he wasn't. He said weak and the MLS is indeed weak. Weak in level of play, weak in stability of the league, weak in attendance, weak in many aspects of the game.

What does your comment about the World Series of Baseball have to do with the topic?

I do agree that one doesn't have to have such a strong league, in order to have some type of success in the International Arena. But it certainly helps. If the American kids get away from the College scene and head for Europe at an early age, it might help speed the process. College will do wonders for the progress of the brain, but it does zero for the progess of football.

 

No he wasn't. He said weak and the MLS is indeed weak. Weak in level of play, weak in stability of the league, weak in attendance, weak in many aspects of the game.

What does your comment about the World Series of Baseball have to do with the topic?

I do agree that one doesn't have to have such a strong league, in order to have some type of success in the International Arena. But it certainly helps. If the American kids get away from the College scene and head for Europe at an early age, it might help speed the process. College will do wonders for the progress of the brain, but it does zero for the progess of football.

Barca, with all due respect, the Dutch and Portuguese really don't have strong league but their NT's are very strong.

I think the MLS average attendance last year was close to 20,000 per game if not then slightly over. Nonetheless, the league itse'f has many more pressing problems than that. It's advertising completely sucks, it has a crappy TV deal, and well some of the quality just isn't up to snuff.

Yet, I'm cautiously optimistic that one day the league will thrive for many reasons. It's entering it's 10th year already don't forget and who would've thought it would've lasted that long.

 

I think you are underrating our home league.

I think you're overrating it. I've watched MLS on ESPN before, and I can safely say -- without bias -- that it was no better than the English Second Division. It was horrible. It was slow, the play was poor and the touches on the ball were not that much higher than the old Australian NSL, and that WAS awful.

MLS isn't even capable of scratching the back of the top ten leagues in Europe. It's not even comparable to La Liga, Serie A or the Premier League. Or the Bundesliga, or Ligue.1, or Supaliga. Scottish PL maybe, but they're Scottish and aren't good at anything anyway.

Sorry if I came off offensive, but it's a simple truth. You are severely overrating the MLS.

 

What does your comment about the World Series of Baseball have to do with the topic?

My comment about the world series was in response to a thread that has been closed that was started by saying/asking should america be kicked out of soccer and the original poster made some comment about the world series and how it had nothing to do with the rest of the world. I just felt i should clarify the meaning of "World" in "world series"

 

There are a lot of others team sports that are somewhat popular in the US and yet they don´t dominate the game or come close to being competitive. Its not as easy as 1+1, I don´t think the culture is there to produce 11 great players, its not as "easy" as finding a great swimmer, runner, gymnast.

 

BTW the world champ of Rodeo I saw a week ago included argie/brazie, gauchos for instance?? pal just kidding but even being right on the World Series is the tendency of calling every tournament winner World Champ waht tends to be annoying, and quite strange cause the truth is that:
1. In many of those sports, you really are the best, even not including many nations in the competition, or none. At least it seems.
2. What you care about the world mostly anyway, you are so, greatly in many ways, looking always in your own belly that why caring to name it World Champs, anyway?

I guess that is why someone may get confuse and thought, The World Series was another of these cases.

About USA being a Power house, could be as you said it you have evrything in the structure ambit, then will have to see if the cultural item will let you produce them, anyway as Lit said nothing is 1+1, but you have your chance for sure.

 

Barca, with all due respect, the Dutch and Portuguese really don't have strong league but their NT's are very strong.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well but I was agreeing with this fact

Attendance was around 15.5K for this year, up a fraction due to the Adu factor.

The MLS is unfortunately weak, when I moved here, two years ago last week, I became a Metrostars season ticket holder, I didn't renew. The stadium sucked, the play was terrible and so on. The prospects in the USA tend to head to College, with free substitution and only a handful of games a year for a schedule. The prospects overseas of the same age, have tons more experienced, more games, more game fitness etc.

I don't doubt that the USA can become a power, but I don't see it as clearly as do others, it will take much longer than anyone anticipated.

My son, a good player in his own right, watches more football thna his entire team combined. He can tell you about most of the goals and moves of the players from the weekend before, while his team mates can't name the players in Man U or Arsenal, let alone the Metrostars or DC United. Yet they can talk about what Terrel Owen absence means to the Philadelphia Eagles. If his team mates and kids like him are to be the dominant force in the world, they need to play and watch the game of football more than the game of American football.

 

BTW the world champ of Rodeo I saw a week ago included argie/brazie, gauchos for instance??

As a matter of fact, there is a TV station in the USA called the Outdoor Life Network that shows a Profesional Bull Riding cicuit, the mighty PBR :tongue: and the champion last year was a Brazilian

I have no idea how I came to know that crap :eekani:

 

After reading some ignorant comments on why the biggest baseball competition is called the "world series" i would like to clarify the reason it is called the world series. It is called the world series not because it has anything to do with geography or being a global competition but because the world series was organised by a new york based paper called at one time the NY WORLD newspaper and so they appropriatel called it The WORLD series....i'm not sure if the paper is still around or has just been renamed. I know this has little to do with soccer (football) but i wanted to get this out into the open for those people who have started a thread based on prejudice and ignorance. As to American soccer i think we are very underrated (ranked 11th last time i checked) baring in mind that we do have a relatively easy region (concacaff). i think in ten to fifteen years we will become a soccer power as we are 1.generally a sporting power (olympics anyone). 2. A very high population 300 million 3. A lot of money poured into sports at both amateur, university and proffessional levels 4. Growing enthusiasm in soccer.

That you are 'generally a sporting power' is mostly because of so many citizins. When you look at the chart here, you see you are not as good as you think;

http://simon.forsyth.net/olympics.html

Gold medals per million population
You are 34th in that ranking, with a lot of countries above you, who are RELATIVELY doing better.


Total medals per million population
You are even 39th when you look at the total ammount of medals and comparing it with the ammount of citizins.

Now its your turn.

 

That you are 'generally a sporting power' is mostly because of so many citizins. When you look at the chart here, you see you are not as good as you think;

http://simon.forsyth.net/olympics.html

Gold medals per million population
You are 34th in that ranking, with a lot of countries above you, who are RELATIVELY doing better.


Total medals per million population
You are even 39th when you look at the total ammount of medals and comparing it with the ammount of citizins.

Now its your turn.

This is such rubbish. To conclude that a country is or isn't a sporting power house by the number of medals or gold medals it has per capita is a joke.

Try again.....

 

If his team mates and kids like him are to be the dominant force in the world, they need to play and watch the game of football more than the game of American football.

I agree but the game is growing 1.fox sports world. the only channel dedicated almost solely to soccer matches is growing in viewership over every year. 2. more american kids between 5-13 play soccer than our so called national sport: Baseball.

The Down sides
1.Our domestic league is crap in comparison to others. but its not that bad! and it IS improving rapidly in terms of quality

2.We don't have a lot of soccer fans. but as stated in prior threads if only a small portion of our sports fans support soccer we will still probably outnumber those of smaller countries that are soccer powers (ie. holland and ireland in the top ten fifa rankings). so i don't view the percentage of soccer fans in our country a problem

3.Our NT hasn't had any real success in the present or past. but thats changing. for a team that had not qualified since 1950 prior to 1990 we have only progressed. the 1998 WC we didn't make it to the last sixteen. 2002 WC we made it to the last 8 and were narrowly beaten by germany 0-1 in a game which even some of the germans said we dominated the first and most of the second half. some of you might say its a fluke we got that far and you may be right but i do not believe so.


Yes soccer in a Variety of areas in america is not up to par with europe or south america but in time (5-15) years we will i believe be in the top five.

 

This is such rubbish. To conclude that a country is or isn't a sporting power house by the number of medals or gold medals it has per capita is a joke.

Try again.....

I know it comes as a shock for you roud: anyway I'm not going to take this reaction very serious looking at your Location in your profile. :jester: and especially since your comment is based on nothing.

 

2.We don't have a lot of soccer fans. but as stated in prior threads if only a small portion of our sports fans support soccer we will still probably outnumber those of smaller countries that are soccer powers (ie. holland and ireland in the top ten fifa rankings). so i don't view the percentage of soccer fans in our country a problem

Since when is Ireland a 'football power'?
Also, Holland has 'only' 16 million citizins compared to your 300 million. So when you look at the percentage, Holland has more fans. Most people support some local club one way or the other. Ofcourse not all people, but alot. Football is the most important game in our country by a large margin.

 

That you are 'generally a sporting power' is mostly because of so many citizins. When you look at the chart here, you see you are not as good as you think;[/QUOTE/]

Just because we have a large population doesn't make us any less of a sporting power.
take a look at the traditional sporting powerhouses
china 1.3 billion
russia 144 or so million
USA 300 million


even take a look at soccer powerhouses

Brazil 180 million
france 60 million
spain 40 million
Italy 58 million

Does the fact that portugal has only 10 million or so people living there somehow make portugal a better soccer team than brazil because brazil has 14 times the population......of course not. brazil still is a soccer powerhouse regardless of how many people live there. when they tally the number of olympic medals do they divide it by the population of that countries people...of course not we are a sporting powerhouse because we win a lot of international sporting events including olympic medals...we are a sporting powerhouse because we win international medals not because we have a better medal to population ratio.....if what you are saying is true the faeroe islands with a population of 50-60 thousand would only have to win one olympic medal to be the # one sporting powerhouse in the world.

 

correction portugal has 18 times the population haha i need school to resume soon!

 

Since when is Ireland a 'football power'?
Also, Holland has 'only' 16 million citizins compared to your 300 million. So when you look at the percentage, Holland has more fans. Most people support some local club one way or the other. Ofcourse not all people, but alot. Football is the most important game in our country by a large margin.

Notice: This is all just theoretical guess work. i have no stats to back it up and some of you might think i am over estimating and some of you may think i am under estimating. its your call, but this is just to illustrate that even if a small percentage of our people like soccer it MIGHT be enough to match the # of soccer fans in smaller countries that do well internattionaly (ie Holland).


Lets do a little bit of guess work say if only 1/3 of the people in the US are sporting fans so thats 100 million people. and lets say of every american sporting fan only 1 in 20 likes soccer. that would still bve five million people. five million people is half the population of portugal...or 1 million more people than which live in ireland (4 million) and I admit ireland are not a soccer powerhouse but they are ranked # 12 for a reason. if you are generous and say that holland has 1/2 of the population as sporting fans that equals 8 million, and if all of them like soccer thats still 8 million thats not much more than the US's five million

 

It depends on the passion for it too though. In Holland everything is geared towards soccer. In America the best atheletes are being pushed towards games with bigger money domestically.

 

Conceded. Good point. but as the sport grows usually the passion does......Just give it time

 

Interesting topic.

Yeah, we get a lot of crap about everything we do football related. We call it soccer. Our league is crap. Etc. etc.

First off, on getting comments about our name for it? So-effing-what? We call it soccer. The Italians call it calcio! Call the motha-f*cking-po-LICE because we have a crime to the world now! Blame the effing English for the word soccer anyways, so piss off about that name.

Second, about our league. How many of you have played a professional league match in Dallas, Texas in the middle of the summer? League games aren't cancelled due to heat - many times an MLS game is played in temperatures over 80 F. Anyone will say it's much harder to play in hotter weather - Liverpool and Arsenal complained about the 'heat' in Cardiff in 2001 slowing down play when it wasn't even 80! Ridiculous.

But it's not just the weather. Our league is 10 years old. That's right, just ten. That's like the English league in 1903. Would you expect it to compete with leagues that were 100 years old? Not a chance. But since we're American, it's like you think our league should be amazing in no time. Think about it - not even half of our teams are playing in their own stadiums, yet. That's how undeveloped our league is in many aspects. We've made huge strides towards what could be a fantastically bright future.

And the thing about the American league is that it's being used as a breeding ground for young Americans, we import hardly any foreigners. We grow our talent here, and it plays here. A team comprised of many MLS players went to the Quarter Finals of the World Cup in 2002. Out of seven goals scored by our boys in Korea, MLS players got five of them, with a sixth being an own goal as a result of an American's cross.

Landon Donovan, Brian McBride, Damarcus Beasley...all players who shone in that World Cup. All MLS players at the time, who have moved on to Europe. Such is the class of our league. We get criticism for our best players leaving for Europe. So? The same happens in the 'superior' South American leagues, with the best talents from Argentina, Brasil, etc. etc. leaving from leagues that have been around for much longer than MLS.

Yeah, our league does lack quality in many ways but it's also improving rapidly. Losses are lowering, stadiums are being built, we have young players that have opted for us over the likes of big European teams. Should we have had another 90 years to develop on the 'huge' sides from across the ocean, then there is no question in my mind that we would be on par.

Now onto the International team. Our biggest result is no doubt the 2002 run that took us past Portugal and Mexico, and just one horrid call away from a dream birth in the Semi-Finals. But you'll find me the first to say, our result is truly a one-off. It was an unprecidented success in Asia from the kids, something we've never done before. It wasn't likely to happen, but great determination and great coaching led us to a spot very few would have previously predicted.

However, with the strength added from this run being added to the powerful systems we already had set up, there is no reason that a quarterfinal run for the USA may become more of a Spain-esque occurence in frequency than Senegal.

We have money to run programs that other countries can only dream of. We have programs that will set us up with players designed to play for the US National Team and abroad.

Look at the talent we have coming up. Spector, Gaven, Szetela, the list is endless. We have bags and bags and bags of young talent developed by superb programs within the US. And these players just keep improving.

The Olympic Development Program, or ODP, is the main reason for such success. ODP is run on a state, regional, and national level, and is helping our players develop in a way that was previously impossible. ODP is developing tactically brilliant players than know how to play in a team, know how to pass, are fit, can take people on, can score, can do everything. Gaven came through ODP, many current MLS players went through it and I can say for sure that many of the yougest new faces in Major League Soccer have gone through this program.

It's open to even the youngest children, as well, so players can get the equivelant of the FA School of Excellence for years upon years, gearing them to be ready for MLS by the time they're 17 or 18. Players within ODP are being eased more towards project-40 and MLS now than College, which was more of a previous focus.

ODP is an expensive program, but the USA is a wealthy country. We have the money to run such programs, and will thus be able to develop more than poorer nations at good, tactical football. Sure, our players won't match the flair of a team like Brasil, but they will be brilliant tactically and will really know how to play football, giving us real power within the World Football scene. Just look at Greece and knowing how to play football, you know?

It's these ideals and programs that gives the US and MLS a chance to become something really strong in the future, something that could see us become one of the top powers in World Football.