It's funny that GS and FB will have bigger stadiums while BJK fans are by far the best fans in Turkey and probably only fans who would fill up that stadium in a normal match.
Frenk Reykart
Honestly, in my dreamworld i would want to see a 60.000 stadium. But realisticly i prefer a filled up stadium to a half full stadium. Our avarage attendace doesnt motivate more than 42-45000 seats.
Its also important that the board can utilize the location of the stadium so that it can generate mone 7 days a week....
Its also important that the board can utilize the location of the stadium so that it can generate mone 7 days a week....
I think 50.000 is the perfect stadium for years to come. That's BJK-GS-FB of course.
Than, I would make 40.000 for TS, 35.000 for Eskisehir and Bursa, and the rest would be 25.000 to 30.000 English style. It will probably go that way, but in 20 years.
60.000 is too much for Turkish club, football is not that popular in Turkey.
Taraftar ortalamasinda Turkiye Dunya'nin 11. sirasinda..
Than, I would make 40.000 for TS, 35.000 for Eskisehir and Bursa, and the rest would be 25.000 to 30.000 English style. It will probably go that way, but in 20 years.
60.000 is too much for Turkish club, football is not that popular in Turkey.
Taraftar ortalamasinda Turkiye Dunya'nin 11. sirasinda..
Football is that popular, it's just that it's too expensive. If it came down to a 60,000 seater stadium, Besiktas are more likely to fill it than any other team... Unless Trabzonspor was situated in Istanbul. 
Fenerbahce regularly pulls in 40,000+ on average in a good season, so I think these stadiums being between 35,000 to 55,000 is easily enough.
I just hope we get the avarage of 30/35k now with our new staduim, there isnt any excuse left not to fill this staduim as its easily the best in the country, altho I must admit a little bit less shittier team without the likes of Zarp, Zan & the rest woulndt hurt.
After attending games here in the US, I realize that why would anyone who is going with their family, is older, is a female, or is not able to afford seats apart from the kalearkasi would go to a game. As long as this kind of fanfare continues I expect things to stay the same.
Its really nice that the Besiktas fans are so colorful and what not, but in reality its a little nervy to go there to watch a game. I think we've discussed this before anyways. So I'm assuming that most people just watch it from home. Otherwise, they would have to lower the prices at the stadiums to make more money. Obviously they are doing fine from the digiturk/ligtv subscribers in Turkey.
Its really nice that the Besiktas fans are so colorful and what not, but in reality its a little nervy to go there to watch a game. I think we've discussed this before anyways. So I'm assuming that most people just watch it from home. Otherwise, they would have to lower the prices at the stadiums to make more money. Obviously they are doing fine from the digiturk/ligtv subscribers in Turkey.
The only two teams in Turkiye that I would be willing to take my girlfriend/wife/family is a Fenerbahce or Eskisehirspor game. The last thing I'd want to expose my family to are a bunch of Kerem's.
The problem with attendances at Turkish football matches is twofold.
One is transportation and infrastructure. As Frenk pointed out in a city with a greater area population of around 15 million you can certainly find enough people that can afford to go.
Unfortunately for the overwhelming majority of fans a one and a half hour (maybe longer due to rush hour) transit to and from the stadium is enough of an incentive to watch the match at the local pub.
Number two is hooliganism. FB fills the stadium because Sukru Saracoglu is a swell old place, thats fun for the whole family! Bring along gramps, uncle billy, and even the timmy twins! We'll all have a ball!
On the other hand going to a Besiktas or GS match is more like stepping into a war zone. I would never take the timmy twins to a match.
So Fener is the fanatic + his whole family, BJK is just the fanatic.
One is transportation and infrastructure. As Frenk pointed out in a city with a greater area population of around 15 million you can certainly find enough people that can afford to go.
Unfortunately for the overwhelming majority of fans a one and a half hour (maybe longer due to rush hour) transit to and from the stadium is enough of an incentive to watch the match at the local pub.
Number two is hooliganism. FB fills the stadium because Sukru Saracoglu is a swell old place, thats fun for the whole family! Bring along gramps, uncle billy, and even the timmy twins! We'll all have a ball!
On the other hand going to a Besiktas or GS match is more like stepping into a war zone. I would never take the timmy twins to a match.
So Fener is the fanatic + his whole family, BJK is just the fanatic.
Well, that's the whole point. In a land where football is very popular game, people will sacrifice more to attend the matches. By finding many many excuses people prove that the popularity of this sport isn't roof top. Unless you consider popularity watching the game on TV every month or following it shallowly.
Popularity means being active and involving yourself in the game, as fan or coach or player of whoever. Just like being fan means consistently following your team, buying the shirt, going to the games and so on. When you analyze this, I'm sure the result of football popularity would be very different. Now, why is this happening? That's another story. There you can put economy, social status and so on. But the fact remains, it's happening and it makes football unpopular regardless of how much shallow attention football is getting from citizens.
I mean come on, we're talking about Galatasaray who couldn't fill 22,000 capacity stadium here, arguably the best club in Turkey, we're talking about Kayseri who has 1 TL ticket prices and still can't get people to go to games..
Popularity means being active and involving yourself in the game, as fan or coach or player of whoever. Just like being fan means consistently following your team, buying the shirt, going to the games and so on. When you analyze this, I'm sure the result of football popularity would be very different. Now, why is this happening? That's another story. There you can put economy, social status and so on. But the fact remains, it's happening and it makes football unpopular regardless of how much shallow attention football is getting from citizens.
I mean come on, we're talking about Galatasaray who couldn't fill 22,000 capacity stadium here, arguably the best club in Turkey, we're talking about Kayseri who has 1 TL ticket prices and still can't get people to go to games..
ASY is a deathtrap for one. Second its just not a hospitable environment for the ordinary fan. Great for fanatics but not so much for everyone else. Thats why Fenerbahce can bring in more fans than the others.
UK, Spain, Germany etc, its not a problem going to a match, commute probably takes 30-45 to most stadiums. On the other hand going from Bostanci to Besiktas during match-day traffic takes at least 2 hours by car, and by vapur at least an hour and a half.
I don't think it has anything to do with the passion of the fans, its just not practical.
UK, Spain, Germany etc, its not a problem going to a match, commute probably takes 30-45 to most stadiums. On the other hand going from Bostanci to Besiktas during match-day traffic takes at least 2 hours by car, and by vapur at least an hour and a half.
I don't think it has anything to do with the passion of the fans, its just not practical.
I dont agree with the commute part because it is only 2 days out of the whole month. We are assuming that fans wont be going to cup games and won't be in the CL/EL. So that means just a mere 17 home games each year. I think most people would make that sacrifice and appropriate arrangement to find a way.
I believe that hooliginism is the main culprit. You have to conform to the majority to take part in being a fan at the stadium. There is social pressure to behave in such a way that would turn of people who may want to act differently. Like you may want to go there and 'sit' down to watch a game like in baseball for example. What the hell is the fun of having a stadium packed with 16-30yr olds right? And most are guys.
I believe that hooliginism is the main culprit. You have to conform to the majority to take part in being a fan at the stadium. There is social pressure to behave in such a way that would turn of people who may want to act differently. Like you may want to go there and 'sit' down to watch a game like in baseball for example. What the hell is the fun of having a stadium packed with 16-30yr olds right? And most are guys.
Argentina - average wage 600 YTL
Average ticket price - 40 to 50 YTL
Boca and River average attendance - 45,000 fans
Enough said, Infamous?
Average ticket price - 40 to 50 YTL
Boca and River average attendance - 45,000 fans
Enough said, Infamous?
Football in Turkiye is the only escape people have from their stressful lives. To the point where football is actually used as a form of therapy for a lot of people. Ransacking airports for new signings, having about 5 different newspapers that literally revolve around football, traffic and life in general stopping on derby day, finding stray cats painted red during world cup, and a reputation of having the most passionate, die-hard fans in the world only lead to one answer:
The stadiums are not filled because people don't care about football in Turkiye. That is the most ridiculous logic I've heard in a long time.
The stadiums are not filled because people don't care about football in Turkiye. That is the most ridiculous logic I've heard in a long time.
No, media in Turkey is very strong and gives away that impression. Football in Turkey is far from therapy and Turkish fans aren't really the most die hard fans in the world. Selling tickets for bigger price to Croats in a vital Euro2008 game against Croatia isn't really die hard.
It's all propaganda, my fella. There's no big country in the world where football is popular yet unsuccessful. Not single one.
If by popular you mean following a team for 3 months, then doing something else for a year, then following again... or buying a jersey once every 10 years because it looks good... then we're not talking about the same thing. As I said, football in Turkey is not popular. It's liked because of European influence. Everyone plays football in Europe, so is Turkey...
And I can't stop laughing at that most passionate die hard fan joke. Turkish fans are your typical if things go good - we're there fans. Result based hype loving bunch of people, just like in 80% of the world...
It's all propaganda, my fella. There's no big country in the world where football is popular yet unsuccessful. Not single one.
If by popular you mean following a team for 3 months, then doing something else for a year, then following again... or buying a jersey once every 10 years because it looks good... then we're not talking about the same thing. As I said, football in Turkey is not popular. It's liked because of European influence. Everyone plays football in Europe, so is Turkey...
And I can't stop laughing at that most passionate die hard fan joke. Turkish fans are your typical if things go good - we're there fans. Result based hype loving bunch of people, just like in 80% of the world...
And I'm guessing average wage in Turkey is over 600 YTL..
Abicim, Kayseri 1YTL ile dolduramiyor stadi, ne konusuyoruz biz burada
Which is why I included league competitiveness as one of my reasons. I'd like to see the average attendance for a club in Argentina that is Kayseri's size.
In Turkey, around 11000...
These are the newest I could find, from last year. I'm sure there isn't any change. Even if there is, nothing drastic as 10,000 fans...
I gave Argentina example because it's closes to Turkey in mentality, social status and economy. Yet there, football is more popular which ensures more sacrifice. People go through all sorts of trouble for a football match, while in Turkey, they find a lot of excuses in the process and stay home watch it on TV while making dinner or reading a magazine and so on..
That's for 2006/2007 season. I had it on my computer for some odd reason, I'm sure you can look up for last year as well... I knew I had it because I had this debate on other forum some time ago
Last night the guy on LigTV said that Turkey is no.11 in the average attendance stats...
Oh about Argentina, should mention that Turkey has double the population Argentina has..
Hahah, listeyi kesssttt....
Rosario Central, a team i have never heard of beats both BJK and GS.. :howler:
Arjantinden damizlik taraftar getirelim aga...
Rosario Central, a team i have never heard of beats both BJK and GS.. :howler:
Arjantinden damizlik taraftar getirelim aga...
The funny thing is that the Argentinean stadiums are exactly the same as Turkish ones - outdated.
Maybe sometime down the line we could have 4-5 teams averaging 30,000+
Maybe sometime down the line we could have 4-5 teams averaging 30,000+
I thought your whole arguement till now was to show that there was no passion??
I think that people need to do more than just to 'watch' the games. For example here in the US soccer has really picked up. I think that you have to incorporate it better into everyday life.
I think at the moment our soccer teams resemble embarrassment so thats why the figures are low. If they are able to do well, things may change. IMO
I think that people need to do more than just to 'watch' the games. For example here in the US soccer has really picked up. I think that you have to incorporate it better into everyday life.
I think at the moment our soccer teams resemble embarrassment so thats why the figures are low. If they are able to do well, things may change. IMO
Turkish people are very passionate, just not for football.
But you can use this passion Turks have and channel it into football of course..
Haha, again with the defense mechanism. Seems like you always use sarcasm and try to be a clown when you have no real answer to write. Good thing, keeps you happy I guess. If you want evidence, click on youtube.com, then search for international hooligans and enjoy a documentary they made about the fans I'm speaking of. But screw that, I'm just making all this up :howler:
Then why the fukk are you being stupid and calling these people die hard fans and trying to prove that football is popular in Turkey using these people as your argument?
Cenko, you guys don't represent the ones I'm talking about but I'm sure you got it already. Still, just to make it clear, you never know ...
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