Yeah,that is a real test.
I am not underestimating valencia,but we are playing much better away,looks the expectation in front of our fans is too much on players that they can't play very well,even though valencia is good,but i think we really can do it and slap them in face like german team!
Let's repeat an away 3-0 win some years ago,with Yeste and LLORENTE (double) scoing our goals.

 

Manu I remember that!...I was in South Africa,believe it was in November,and my pop inlaw texted to say we had won 3-0 in the mastella...i had to text abck to see if he had got the scores the wrong way round!

I like your optimism.Lightening striking twice?...you never know..I'd take a point this Sunday mind you.

You've cheered me up.:smileani:

 

We can't defend.There is a total lack of demarcation between defensive and offensive roles.Nobody has a clearly defined role.I think it's fair to say after this period of time that our current standard of play is not good enough.

We were effectively taken apart by the third placed team in the Austrian League.

What was most alarming was the lack of progress in the initial stages of the second half.Bielsa expected the Austrians to sit back...not a bit of it..they stuck two up front and an extra man in midfield and dominated us.He was clueless of a plan "b" under such pressure..and if we are honest refused to play one.Martinez back at centre half after his excellent offensive display v Osasuna?

Their coach,even when they were down to ten men,saw our defence as shambolic and he was correct.

The immediate problem for me is this utterly ridiculous protocal that we have to endure the ridiculous sight of Gorka Passing suicide balls to our back four,who are abject at the best of times.CLEAR THE BALL TO MIDFIELD,THEN PLAY FANCY FOOTBALL IF WE MUST.

We are in danger of getting a serious beating on sunday if tactics aren't changed.

Furthermore,the current and constant eleven players selected for each game cannot possibly survive a full season of Euro and domestic challenges.

We need a new coach...that is unlikely given the current politic.

People of Bilbao should have been careful what they wished for.

 

One last point guys,there were two occasions last night where Llorente went back to the centre circle to pick up the ball and drive forward.

That is not his job or where he should be playing.He doesn't play there for the selection and should be hovering in box to finish.That is the job of Martinez,a true rampaging mid fielder,linking the attacking players.

When JM is playing Centre Half,instead of this role,then the whole team is unbalanced meaning everyone is out of position.

 

Thoughts?

 

Wondered where you'd gone....

I think where we struggled vs Salzburg (and Betis) is they sat back and hit us on the counter. Valencia will pose a different threat and being at home too they will attack us.

Will be a tough game, would take a point but the main thing it'll show is if our away record has improved under Bielsa. (And our record against the top sides too)

As for Javi playing in defence, Michael Cox from Zonalmarking has said before Bielsa does it so the centrebacks are comfortable with the ball which helps when the line is so high. He's done it before with Chile and of course Barça do it sometimes with Mascherano/Busquets. I'm not sure it is a good idea (for us), but there is some thinking behind it.

 

As for Javi playing in defence, Michael Cox from Zonalmarking has said before Bielsa does it so the centrebacks are comfortable with the ball which helps when the line is so high. He's done it before with Chile and of course Barça do it sometimes with Mascherano/Busquets. I'm not sure it is a good idea (for us), but there is some thinking behind it.

It is not that he can't play there,but,it is not best use of him i guess, busquet and mascherano are top class but don't have a special talent in forward runs or creativity like Javi(imagine xavi playing in centre of barca defence,even if he got used to playing there,but still is that the best use fo his abilities?)
In my opinion,playing in midfield is the best use of Javi Martinez,i didn't saw Javi Martinez in attackign role much,but i think even playing him as an attacking midfielder is better than centre back(like yaya toure in man city playing as AM)

And finally,yeah,surely that is a way to play,Sir Alex played carrick in defence not a long ago for whole 90 minutes(against leeds i guess) and also against oteul too after vidic's dismissal.

 

Evening Arrieta!..nice to be missed...maybe!

Martinez is very comfortable in midfield and i agree that such experiments are ridiculous.

There is a huge problem that playing our best performers out of position will lessen morale and totally erode confidence in the coaching staff.

Players covering injuries and in match with red cards is well and good,but shuffling personnel during a game for no reason,Ekiza off JM covering at CH,is frankly crazy.

Also an issue was bielsa hiding in the dugout at the start of the second half,totally deviod of ideas,when the team needed leadership.

Arrieta..if i asked you now,JC or bielsa,what would be your answer.

I want the success of last season back.We played good football as well and who is to say long ball football is not entertaining?...good enough for the likes of Chelsea,good enough for us..given the height and strengths of our current squad.

I don't understand because i criticise a system that is failing i am treated like a pariah.

More like me,maybe back to success..a lo mejor..

 

I can see the thinking behind Javi in defence, but (and we all seem agreed on this) the problem is not so much he can't play in defence but rather you miss what he brings to midfield. At Barcelona where they have several midfielders they can get away with playing Mascherano/Busquets in defence (note both are defensive midfielders, Javi not so much) but our midfield will miss a player like Javi.

Arrieta..if i asked you now,JC or bielsa,what would be your answer.

Would still have El Loco, we need to give him time. Don't want to say what I've already said, but as much as Jokin achieved in his spell his tactics were too predictable and at times negative. Also there was no plan B.

Fair enough criticising the team's/system's faults but why no praise over the recent good results? Granted, the Salzburg game wasn't great (and at times against Osasuna the defence was exposed), but surely the performances in those three wins gave you some encouragement that Bielsa is getting things right?

 

Fair enough Arrieta,but when we have fit central defenders there can never be any rationale for playing an international class midfielder in that position.It simply does not make sense,and never can,when it reduces his potency and denegrates the performance of the rest of the team.

I don't see how we are improving when with every match our defence is taken apart.In fact,take out Iker and our style of play is so predictable.I have noticed that our full backs play so high we are totally exposed at the back on so many 3v2's.

Also,when are attacking through the middle,with opportunities,the ball is automatically fed wide to the wide players when the best option is to attack their centre halfs.

The style seems to be absolute and not open to variation.You must concede that the short pass from Gorka to our central defenders is not working..merely putting us under pressure.

Variation please,and a little leadership...JC any day..we were not as one dimensional under him as people seem to think.

Anyhow we all have to get behind the team.

 

You must concede that the short pass from Gorka to our central defenders is not working..merely putting us under pressure.

I remember reading a interview in the paper about Hodgson's time at Fulham. It was one their ex-players (from the 60's - could be George Cohen? I can't remember...) who now supports the club.

At Hodgson's first match Schwarzer (the keeper) threw the ball to a defender instead of kicking it long. The ex-player started clapping and his wife said "Why are you clapping?" "We've kept the ball."

 

we seem to be on form.. sorta anyway... lets keep it up!

 

Players called up by Marcelo Bielsa:

Iraizoz, Raúl.
Aurtenetxe, Amorebieta, San José, Iraola, Ekiza.
López, Iturraspe, Gabilondo, Susaeta, Gurpegi, Herrera, Martínez, Galarreta.
Toquero, Llorente, De Marcos, Muniain, Ibai.


I hope this means Galarreta wasn't seriously injured today. Anyway, I guess he will be one of the two discards.

 

Iñigo Ruiz de Galarreta and Ibai Gómez don't travel to Valencia as both finished the game against Sanse injured.

There's hope in a fast recovery for both.

 

We're vulnerable at the moment, you guys definitely have a high chance of going home with points.

 

According to yesterday's training Bielsa will repeat Thursday's lineup.

At a point in the training Marcelo trained with Herrera instead of De Marcos, that might be the only doubt.

Iraizoz

Iraola - Borja Ekiza - Amorebieta - Aurtenetxe

Javi Martínez

Susaeta - Iturraspe - De Marcos - Muniain

Llorente​

Bench: Raúl, San José, Gurpegi, David López, Herrera, Gabilondo, Toquero.

 

Iraola - Borja Ekiza - Amorebieta - Aurtenetxe

As long as this is our defence lineup I will be satisfied with the lineup...

 

Would it be the 4-1-4-1 you have there instead of the 4-2-3-1? A bit more attacking if so, I like the boldness :thumbsup:

 

Match is about to begin.

 

banega so close!

 

balls passing posts by inches several times until now!
We are so sloppy in defence!

 

LLORENTE failed to make any contact to the ball otherwise it could be easily 1-0 for Athletic!

 

Susaeta in but disallowed!

 

this ridiculous there again!
clos gomez
matches against real at home and sevilla away to remember from last season with that ridiculous refree!

 

The goal was offside by the old rules but not by the new rules. It should have counted but I can see why the linesmen get confused.

 

finaly clos gomez didn't give a false penlaty against us!

 

LLORENTE to post!

 

ooooooooh how unlucky was that!?!?!

 

javi martinez booked

 

Oh,fatal mistake by iraizoz and nearly ended in!