I don`t know if Germany has a real good chance against these brilliant Brazilians.

And Ballack is missing. Klose wasn`t impressing in the last match, but I don`t think that this is his lasting performance. It was an exception.

No, Germany cannot win - Brazil is the Champion
Although I will be supporting Germany!!

3-1

 

well at least this final will include the two traditional powers of world futbol, no offence to turkey or south korea but i would have no intrest if either of these teams were in the final.

my prediction- rivaldo takes a very deliberate and obvious dive in the in the 90th minute, the referee misses the dive and calls a penalty, rivaldo uts in the back of the net and brazil raise the cup.

 

so the main thing for you are the "names" and not the abilities of the teams or entertaining and thrilling football??

you are soooo funny!!!

 

I pick Brazil to win because Kahn can't do it on his own

 

Be frank the current German team is probably the worst German NT I have ever seen. Apart from Kahn, none of the current player could made the 74 or 90 team's starting 11, and probably another one or two can make the squard.

No matter how great Kahn is, it is imppossible to do it on his own. Personally I think the German's midfield without Ballak for sure inferior to that of Turkey and with Ronaldinho back to the line-up, unless there is send off from the Brazilian team. Can't see Germany beat Brazil.

Frings and Menzelder (sp!!) though were fairly impressive against the Koreans and Americans but have yet to be tested by attackers with genuine world-class calibre and they will probably struggle and unlike the Americans who have miss half dozen of clear chances, Ronaldo, RIvaldo and Ronaldinho are among the most clinical finishers there are, and will bury some if not mostof the chances.

Brazil should win by 2 goals if not more.

 

We are playing against germany...they have tradition and the shirt.
Nothing is won ntil the ref blows the fnal whilst....it's always been like that against the german, and it will continue to be!

It will be a very tough game for us!

 

An easy win for Brazil...You can resist Paraguay, USA and South Korea, but you can't resist the three musketeers.(RRR)

 

The Five Times Brazil and Germany DIDN'T Meet

On five different moments, the confrontation between Brazil and Germany almost took place. But there was always something in the way...

In 1954, West Germany lost to then-mighty Hungary in the 1st stage of the Cup by 8x2. With that result, they qualified in 2nd place from the group, and the Hungarians met Brazil in the quarterfinals. Hungary, with their 'Galloping Major' Puskas, beat Brazil and advanced to the final - when Germany managed to beat them and raise the trophy.

In WC '58, the Germans lost to Sweden in the semifinal. Brazil went by France at that stage and won the WC final against the home team, Sweden. It was Brazil's first title, and the first Cup of Garrincha and Pelé.

Again in 1970 the two teams reached the semifinals of the WC. Brazil did their job and beat Uruguay 3x1, but West Germany, in a historical and dramatic game, lost to Italy by 4x3 (on extratime). The Azzurri played the final against brazil and were thrashed, on Brazil's third World Cup victory.

Then in 1974, the World Cup hosts West Germany 'accepted' to lose to East Germany to avoid qualifying for a group with Brazil and Holland, 'The Clockwork Orange'. Brazil lost to Holland, and the Dutch team went to the finals against Germany. It was Germany's second World Cup title.

On World Cup '86, Brazil lost to France, and Michel Platini's team played the WC semifinal against Germany.

Now they finally meet. May the best team win. And may the best team have a safe trip back to Rio after they've won the Cup.

 

i found it depressing that u can be in the top 2 teams in the world by beating Ukraine (qualify), Saudi Arabia , Cameron , USA , Korea, and Paraguay...to win Euro 2000 france had to play italy portugal spain and holland, i know which one i prefer to see...

apart from brazil's brilliant play, this tournament is by far the worst in a long time....

 

i found it depressing that u can be in the top 2 teams in the world by beating Ukraine (qualify), Saudi Arabia , Cameron , USA , Korea, and Paraguay...to win Euro 2000 france had to play italy portugal spain and holland, i know which one i prefer to see...

apart from brazil's brilliant play, this tournament is by far the worst in a long time....

you cant choose who your gonna play so you can t really blame germany for that, they may have had a so called easy tournament thus far but there still here and they beat the teams that they had to and portugal, spain and italy did not, so in my book germany has every right to be here. so for all of you who are picking brazil to win so easily either have not been watching this world cup or you dont realize that you never count out the germans, this team plays with pride and grit and they havent become the most succesful european nation by accident.

 

Germany's defense is better than Turkiye's. Germany will win, after a 0-0 draw on penalties. Watch. Belgium showed Brazil can be broken down by a determined side, and determination is basically how Germany got here. Watch...

 

Why is everyone saying that Germany got the easier route
I would say that Brazil got an easy route

Germany had to face Saudia(the easiest team)
Ireland who played quite well and Cameroon the African champions
Paraguay who finished above Brazil in qualifying, USA who is a good attacking team and the home team S.Korea.

Brazil played the easiest teams on paper China, Costa Rica, Belgium. An overhyped England. The problems only coming from Turkey- who is not yet a world beater itself.

The key will be who will score first. The Brazilian speed (which by the way is fast) will suit the Germans as they are slower than Korea and USA. Turkeys main problem was that they did not play their usual game vs Brazil and did not impose physically. Something the Germans will do.
I am hoping for a German victory, but somehow i believe Brazil just might squeeze through.

 

Re: The Five Times Brazil and Germany DIDN'T Meet

Again in 1970 the two teams reached the semifinals of the WC. Brazil did their job and beat Uruguay 3x1, but West Germany, in a historical and dramatic game, lost to Italy by 4x3 (on extratime). The Azzurri played the final against brazil and were thrashed, on Brazil's third World Cup victory.

Alas alas, this should be the real dream final.

-------------------------Felix
--Carlos Alberto--Piazza--Brito--Everaldo
--------------Clodoaldo--Gerson
-------Jairzinho--Tostao--Pele--Rivelino

------------------------Vs.

-----------Loehr--Muller--Grabowski
--------Overath--Seeler--Beckenbauer
------------Patzke--Schulz--Vogts
-------------------Schnellinger
-----------------------Maier

What a match up!

 

Germany weren't the best team in the WC in 1954 and 1974 and still won it, so i more than expect them to do so again as they have that winning mentality and admirable ability to grind out results

however i have to say, that if they do win then it then they will be one of the most mediocre teams to have won the world cup. Their route to the final was easy, but if it wasn't for King Kahn then they would not have progressed out of their group - nor have won against the USA....the guy has been immense, and at least as influential for his team getting to the final than Maradona was in 1986

player of the tournament, in my opinion

 

Why is everyone saying that Germany got the easier route
I would say that Brazil got an easy route.

No, both teams took easy route. Let's say if France and Germany switch place (France to Group E, Germany to group A); Brazil and Argentina did the same (Argentina to group C, Brazil to group F), the final could even be France vs. Argentina!

 

Well I must admit I always hated Germany. Still teh reason I hope they wont in it this time is differently. in all objectivity you must say this German team lacks quality. The only 2 players taht impressed me were Schneider and Kahn. Even Ballack was disappointing I thought. Still they will miss himin the final.

Although they lack quality I dodn't rule them out of winning this. It just something German teams always have. No matter how bad they play, no matter how boring their game is, you are never done with them. I just hope it won't be th case this game. It would be another stain on this tiournament if such an avaerage team wins the WC.

 

Kahn versus Ronaldo

Germany weren't the best team in the WC in 1954 and 1974 and still won it, so i more than expect them to do so again as they have that winning mentality and admirable ability to grind out results

however i have to say, that if they do win then it then they will be one of the most mediocre teams to have won the world cup. Their route to the final was easy, but if it wasn't for King Kahn then they would not have progressed out of their group - nor have won against the USA....the guy has been immense, and at least as influential for his team getting to the final than Maradona was in 1986

player of the tournament, in my opinion

I agree that if Geramny wins they'll be THE most mediocre team ever to have won a WC. I also agree that, IF Germany manages to beat Brazil, Kahn will deserve credit for it just as Maradona received credit for Argentina's 1986 victory: As THE player who took his team all the way, and the man who made it all possible.

If Brazil wins, on the other hand, Ronaldo and Rivaldo will IMO share the honours as MVP of the tournament. Rivaldo was more consistent throughout the Cup, but Ronaldo is the heart of our team, and his recovery from those terrible injuries gives him a heroic shine. roud: :hopefull:

 

Germany's campaign

i found it depressing that u can be in the top 2 teams in the world by beating Ukraine (qualify), Saudi Arabia , Cameron , USA , Korea, and Paraguay...to win Euro 2000 france had to play italy portugal spain and holland, i know which one i prefer to see...

apart from brazil's brilliant play, this tournament is by far the worst in a long time....

What can Germany do if Italy, Portugal and Spain were knocked out by Korea? The USA team knocked Mexico - a more 'traditional' team - out. Cameroon is a strong team - there's no way they can be ranked as 'weak' opponents. Saudi Arabia was on the 1st stage, and it was the luck of the draw. Paraguay did a fine Qualifiers' campaign and actually put up a good fight against the Germans.

Germany handled with the teams that qualified to face them -- I think Italy or Spain might have beaten Germany, but hey, Italy was incompetent and Spain lost due to a refereeing mistake (which, as we know, happens in football). Was their path easier than Brazil's? I think it was. But it's not their fault, is it? They reached the final on their own merits. The 'great opponents' Germany might have faced weren't good enough so that 'challenging encounter' never happened.

 

Re: Germany's campaign

What can Germany do if Italy, Portugal and Spain were knocked out by Korea? The USA team knocked Mexico - a more 'traditional' team - out. Cameroon is a strong team - there's no way they can be ranked as 'weak' opponents. Saudi Arabia was on the 1st stage, and it was the luck of the draw. Paraguay did a fine Qualifiers' campaign and actually put up a good fight against the Germans.

Germany handled with the teams that qualified to face them -- I think Italy or Spain might have beaten Germany, but hey, Italy was incompetent and Spain lost due to a refereeing mistake (which, as we know, happens in football). Was their path easier than Brazil's? I think it was. But it's not their fault, is it? They reached the final on their own merits. The 'great opponents' Germany might have faced weren't good enough so that 'challenging encounter' never happened.

The strength of the opposition is all subjective perception. It may give the apologists fodder to ponder, but it ultimately means little in the realm of actuality.

Germany and Brazil are playing in the final because of a very simple reason - they beat their opposition. Something that can't be said of the rest, no matter how much we all coulda-shoulda it to death.

 

What Germany must do to beat Brazil (and vice versa)

IMO the most crucial aspect of the game for Germany will be how much space they give Brazil. It is difficult to decide whom to mark because the brazilians are ALL talented - I say the three players that Germany MUST mark are Rivaldo,Cafu and Roberto Carlos. There is no point man marking Ronaldinho because he very rarely goes for goal himself.His job is to supply Ronaldo and Rivaldo.So cutting off the destination should be politic. Also, there is no point in explicitly marking ronaldo because he will draw defenders to himself anyway.

Cafu == Jeremies
Rivaldo == Linke
R.Carlos == Metzelder

Which leaves Ramelow and Frings free to mark Ronaldo or cover for Lucio or Edmilson in case they come up for set pieces and Ziege and Hamann free to focus on attack and midfield.


I am not sure about Linke.He has been the most shaky of the back four.The only advantage with Linke is that he gets back to position very very fast and therefore will help during counters.But If Rivaldo plays closer to midfield, then the marking role may suit Kehl better.

Frankly, as far as midfield play goes I think Ballack will not be missed.But He has been responsible for Four assists and Three goals in the WC.

I am not sure if crowding the midfield will work.Brazil have players who can excel in crowded conditions.I am trying to remember what Turkey did in that first match and what Belgium did in the first half of the prequarters.Whatever they did , it was effective. If i remember right, Ronaldinho was entirely unmarked.The midfield in the Belgium game WAS crowded. Hmm...

One thing is for certain : Germany must NEVER EVER play the offside trap and they MUST NOT let Ronaldo run and MUST not let Rivaldo shoot. At first glance this seems kinda obvious but not really. The four Turkish defenders could have easily fouled/tripped or tackled Ronaldo. NONE OF THE FOUR DID SO , even though they could have.

This is Germanys Tryst with fate for sure.

What Brazil must do - Play their natural game and not worry about opponents strengths. EXCEPT - Man marking Klose with either Lucio or Roque is an absolute must. Other German players they might consider marking : Hamann.

 

Brasil obviously have the best talent but germany probably has the best TEAM. Which side will prevail individual talent or team effort?????

 

QUALITY is not the word you want

Well I must admit I always hated Germany. Still teh reason I hope they wont in it this time is differently. in all objectivity you must say this German team lacks quality. The only 2 players taht impressed me were Schneider and Kahn. Even Ballack was disappointing I thought. Still they will miss himin the final.

Although they lack quality I dodn't rule them out of winning this. It just something German teams always have. No matter how bad they play, no matter how boring their game is, you are never done with them. I just hope it won't be th case this game. It would be another stain on this tiournament if such an avaerage team wins the WC.

The main problem here is that MOST of the German players are young and inexperienced and to most people, this is equivalent to "lacking quality".The main yardstick for measuring quality seems to be how much the players can stand out individually.I think quality is better judged by taking into account how much the players contribute to the TEAM. The so called "quality" that gOD talks about here is a misnomer.Contrary to popular belief and to the belief of those who are too hasty in passing judgement on this German team, the German team has more than its fair share of quality.Its just that it hasnt been hailed and recognised yet.

Four years from now, I think everybody will be eating their words about this German team. In my opinioin, Metzelder and Kehl will become household names all over Europe.Ballack will strengthen his status now that he has moved to Bayern Munich ( thereby having a better chance to succeed in European competition). Kahn may or may not be around. It is up to him but by then I feel he would have been hailed as one of the best keepers of all time. Sebastian Diesler would have also grown to realise his potential. Klose I am sure is not a one tournament wonder. He is awesome in the air and pretty good for someone who has been pro only for three years.Didi,Ziege,Ramelow and Schneider would have become solid,experienced players who will fill the shoes of the great moller, sammer and haessler.

I think it is ridiculous that people make judgements on this team. Describing them as devoid of "quality" is like looking at a five month old baby and saying that he/she will never amount to anything. It is more accurate to say that they are inexperienced and that there are no really FAMOUS players apart from King Kahn and Ballack.But FAME is another thing altogether...

And about the boring part...Well I have to admit Germany have not really entertained in this WC.But true beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. It only depends on how you look at it.I always root for the underdogs and everytime Germany wins a match , to me it shows what hard work and determination can do- It is a victory of teamwork and spirit.It gives hope to those who are not the most talented in the world but who have the desire and determination to succeed.

 

I can't believe those of you, who say Brazil is going to win this easily. Germany is always a great turnament team and we've also seen that this time. Although they've had an easy route to the final (Brazil too) I think they've showed they still got that skill, which have won them so many trophies before. They never give up. They are always playing till the ref blows his whistle the last time.

Germany have been hit badly by injuries and Ballack's red card will definitely be a decisive fact for this final and the result of it. Ballack haven't be as good as we know he can be in this World Cup, but he still is a very important player fro the German team. He will be missed!

As for Brazil, well they've got more and more solid in their defence, a place they've been very vulnerable. That fact and that they're very strong when attacking can win them this World Cup.

I think Brazil will win it. Germany isn't very good and Brazil is simply better in most of the positions, maybe besides on goal, where Kahn is truely magnificent.

A win for Brazil, but it isn't going to be an easy job!

 

It can be done

The Germans have beaten "better quality" opposition before in the WC finals:-

By Eiler Gutierrez,columnist

West Germany-Hungary, 1954. German fortitude overtook Hungarian class in an exciting final, played with great skill and speed despite the rain. This game was perhaps the first major indication that West Germany's well organized methods could prove too much for technically superior opposition. Hungary had beaten W.Germany 8-3 in a previous game, the "Magic Magyars" were favorite in the final. With Bozsik, Kocsis, Czibor and their star player Ferenc Puskas, the Hungarians seemed unbeatable. Puskas scored the first gol of the match. He was nursing and injury and was nowhere near 100%, Czibor added the last one for the "Magyars" two minutes later. Shortly after, Morlock scored the first German goal and soon after Rahn made his mark in the Hungarian goal post. More than an hour later Rahn beat goalkeeper Grosics to a corner from Fritz Walter and headed his team to victory. Hungary had lost for the first time in 32 games, and the victorious Germans took home the Jules Rimet.

But the problem here is -
Simple math really -

Puskas = Fritz + Rahn
Puskas = Ronaldo = Rivaldo = Ronaldinho
Germany NT << Fritz + Rahn
the concusion stares you in the face
R+R+R > Germany NT

I hope I am wrong though

 

Gautum,

It id easy to blame the Turks not have defended better and gave Ronaldo a tackle. But if you have seen the got, when Ronaldo receive the pass from Gilberto Silva, he easily past a defender and then was was already in the penalty area.

We can all say :Why the 3 Defenders did not take a challenge). But it took less than 3 seconds from ROnaldo spung the first defender to the goal in the net. Ronaldo was in a fairly accute angle and the Turkish defenders probably did not expect ROnaldo with take a short espeically a tip tose short from that angle. They probably expected ROnaldo to pass the ball to the centre or try to run to the goal like and cross and try to find a wider angle before making a shot. Also considering that Ronaldo was already inside the peanlty area and given that none of the Turkish defenders expect Ronaldo will score from that angle, they all hestitated whether would take the risk of talking a tackle, which given ROnaldo's quicky feet, even a supposingly good tackle could end up a penalty.

I have seen the goal a dozen on of time on the replay and the news, but even you say could have again and again, but the Turks probably had a split of second of tackling Ronaldo without risking a penalty. It was far too demanding and I won't the less experience German could done better in this situation.

Don't blame the Turks, it was indeed a goal with sheer skill and football intellegent. That caught the Turkish defenders, myself and Rustu Receber in a surprise. Who would have expect a player tip tose the ball in this accute angle??