Lasha, you might want to check the all-time squads done by this PES community.

Pes Miti del Calcio - View forum - Europe

Pes Miti del Calcio - View forum - South America

 

BRA :


Gilmar, Julio Cesar, Alisson
Dani Alves, Djalma Santos, Thiago Silva, Luis Pereira , Lucio, Roberto Carlos, Nilton Santos
Falcao, Mauro Silva, Cerezo, Garrincha, Jairzinho, Didi, Zico, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Neymar
Pele, Ronaldo, Romario

(RES- Dida, Cafu, Domingos, Junior, Danilo Alvim, Emerson, Gerson, Socrates, Zizinho, Tostao, Rivelino, Julinho, Leonidas)


GER :


Maier, Neuer, Kahn
Lahm, Vogts, Beckenbauer, Sammer Kohler, Breitner, Schnellinger
Stielike, Matthaus, Kroos , T.Muller, H. Rahn, Netzer, F.Walter, Schuster, Rummenigge, Littbarski
G.Muller, Seeler, Klose

(RES- Schumacher, Forster, Brehme, Ballack, Bonhof,Schweinsteiger, Overath, Heynckes, Hassler, Klinsmann)


ITA :


Buffon,Zoff, Pagliuca
Bergomi, Burgnich, F.Baresi, Scirea, Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Facchetti
Tardelli, Pirlo, Monti, Boniperti, Conti, Meazza, Rivera, R.Baggio , Sivori
Rossi, Vieri, Riva

(RES -Zenga, Gentile, Materazzi, Cabrini, Zambrotta, Bulgarelli, Benetti, Orsi, S.Mazzola, V.Mazzola, Totti, Corso, Bettega, Piola)



ARG :


Carrizo, Fillol, Gatti
Zanetti, Passarella, Samuel, R.Ayala, Ruggeri, Marzolini, Tarantini
Mascherano, Redondo, Ardiles, Rossi, Messi, Corbatta, Maradona, Moreno, Kempes, Di Maria, Loustau
Di Stefano, Batistuta

(RES: Goycoechea, Perfumo, Olarticoechea, Olguin, J.S.Veron, Pedernera, Riquelme, Caniggia, Bertoni, Aguero, Labruna)


URU:


Mazurkiewicz, Maspoli, Rodriguez
V.R.Andrade, Ancheta, Santamaria, Godin, Nasazzi, Pavoni, Mujica
O.Varela, J.L. Andrade, Ghiggia, L.Cubilla, Schiaffino, Francescoli, Scarone, P.Rocha, R.Sosa, Aguilera,
Suarez, Forlan, Cavani

(RES: Montero, R.Matosas, M.Pereira, Gambetta, Goncalves, Romano , Gradin, J.C.Morales, C.Rodriguez, Miguez, Morena)


FRA:


Barthez, Lloris, Bats
Thuram, Amoros, Tresor, Blanc, Jonquet, Bossis, Lizarazu
Vieira, Desailly, Tigana, Ribery, Mbappe, Giresse, Platini, Kopa, Zidane ,Vincent
Henry, Fontaine, Papin

(RES: Varane, Evra, Deschamps, Makelele, Kante, Pogba, Cantona, Pires, Griezmann, Benzema)


HOL:


van der Sar, van Breukelen, van Beveren
Suurbier, R.Koeman, F de Boer, Stam, Krol, van Tiggelen
Rijkaard, Davids, van Hanegem, Seedorf, Robben, Neeskens, Gullit, Bergkamp, Rensenbrink, Overmars, Keizer
Cruyff, van Basten, van Nistelrooy

(RES: van der Wiel, van Bronckhorst, van der Hart, Haan, Sneijder, W.van de Kerkhof, Rep, van Persie)



ESP:


Casillas, Zamora , Zubizarretta
Segarra, Sergio Ramos, Puyol, Pique, Migueli, Alba, Camacho
Hierro, Busquets, Pirri, David Silva, Amancio, Xavi, Suarez, Iniesta, Kubala, Gento
Raul, Villa, Zarra

(RES: Juanfran, Xabi Alonso, Basora, Fabregas, Torres, Butragueno, Langara)



ENG:


Banks, Shilton, Clemence
Armfield, Moore, Terry, Adams, B.Wright, A.Cole, Sansom
Ince, Edwards, Gerrard, Matthews, Beckham, Keegan, B.Charlton, Lampard, Finney
Greaves, Shearer, Lineker, Owen

(RES: Neal, R.Ferdinand, Hapgood, Ball, Stiles, Peters, Bryan Robson, Gascoigne, Barnes Rooney, Hurst,Dean)

>>>>

maybe for a better balance:

BRA Rivaldo out - Danilo Alvim in
GER Schuster out - Brehme (Bonhof) in, Seeler (Klose) out - Klinsmann in
ITA Riva out - Corso (Zambrotta) in, Burgnich out- Gentile in ( (11 Scirea out- Cannavaro in))
URU L.Cubilla out - M.Pereira (R.Sosa, Gambetta, C.Rodriguez, Goncalves) in
ENG Lineker out- Stiles in , Sansom out -Neal in ((11 Gerrard out- Edwards in))
ARG ((11 Batistuta out - Mascherano in))

 

@pep pep you realize Omar Sivori has played just 9 games with the Italian NT from 1961 to 1962, don't you? I wouldn't even consider him, no matter whether he was a champion, but even if I considered him I could never leave out Baggio or Totti for him.
I won't mention the double libero Baresi-Scirea in your starting lineup, the lack of midfielders...
Boniperti?!

 

I don't want to be told I can just blame the other people's lineup so will try mine

Italy from 1982 to 2020

I call up 23 players but leave me the chance to choose the starting lineup... 24 hours before the games! 🤭

Portieri: Buffon, Zoff and Pagliuca
Difensori: Nesta, Scirea, F.Baresi, Vierchowod, F.Cannavaro, Bergomi, Zambrotta and Maldini
Centrocampisti: Pirlo, Antognoni, Oriali, Tardelli, Albertini, Donadoni, De Rossi and B.Conti
Attaccanti: Totti, R.Baggio, Vialli and Vieri

I'm sorry for the ones I left out. In particular Gentile and Cabrini. As regards Claudio Gentile he is a right back of the good old zona mista, a man marker, and I have plenty of options there, no matter whether Bergomi is the one right back among the man markers I called up.
As regards Cabrini, he can just play as a fluidificante (wingback) on the left flank, while Zambrotta can also be a right wingback and he can cover the right side if I choose a 4-man line defense instead of zona mista. Make it a pure tactical choice.
At midfield probably someone from the past could have been useful* the way it could have been useful a forward or two from the past instead of either Vialli or Vieri or both. They have been without a doubt the best Italian center forwards I have watched anyway. I deliberately chose to leave out the poacher Paolo Rossi, in spite of his fundamental contribution to the win of the world cup in 1982.

*I included De Rossi who has a huge amount of games for the NT but I have never really been a fan of him. I prefered him to Gattuso because De Rossi is more skilled and can do a bit of everything. As a hardworking midfielder I chose Oriali over Gattuso. Oriali really impressed me in the world cup 1982.

 

Maybe pepe evaluated the entire careers not just NT.

F. De Boer-Koeman is like Baresi-Scirea except none of them could defend.

 

Brazil

GK GILMAR
RB DJALMA SANTOS
CB DOMINGOS da Guia
CB LUÍS PEREIRA
LB NÍLTON SANTOS
DM ZITO
CM DIDI
RW GARRINCHA
ST RONALDO
FW PELÉ
LW RONALDINHO

GK BARBOSA, Moacir
GK TAFFAREL, Cláudio
CB LÚCIO
RB CARLOS ALBERTO
LB ROBERTO CARLOS
DM DANILO Alvim
CM FALCÃO, Paulo Roberto
AM ZIZINHO
AM ZICO
RW JAIRZINHO
SS RIVALDO
ST ROMÁRIO

Reserves: Júlio César, Thiago Silva, Cafu, Júnior, Toninho Cerezo, Gérson, Sócrates, Roberto Rivellino, Julinho, Tostão, Neymar, Leônidas and Ademir de Menezes.

 

Ronaldinho In The Starting Lineup? Why? He Wasn’t The Best In The Brazil NT, And Was Great For Only A Couple Of Years From What I Know.

 

Germany

GK KAHN, Oliver
RB VOGTS, Berti
CB KOHLER, Jürgen
SW BECKENBAUER, Franz
LB SCHNELLINGER, Karl-Heinz
CM MATTHÄUS, Lothar
AM NETZER, Günter
CM BREITNER, Paul
RW RAHN, Helmut
ST MÜLLER, Gerd
LW RUMMENIGGE, Karl-Heinz

GK MAIER, Sepp
GK NEUER, Manuel
CB FÖRSTER, Karlheinz
SW SAMMER, Matthias
RB LAHM, Philipp
LB BREHME, Andreas
CM SCHWEINSTEIGER, Bastian
AM SZEPAN, Fritz
AM OVERATH, Wolfgang
SS WALTER, Fritz
ST SEELER, Uwe
ST KLINSMANN, Jürgen

Reserves: Toni Schumacher, Willi Schulz, Mats Hummels, Paul Janes, Hans-Peter Briegel, Uli Stielike, Michael Ballack, Bernd Schuster, Pierre Littbarski, Hans Schäfer, Ernst Kuzorra and Jupp Heynckes.

 

This would be my graphed idea about Germany:

 

Italy

GK BUFFON, Gianluigi
RB MALDINI, Paolo
SW SCIREA, Gaetano
CB BARESI, Franco
LB FACCHETTI, Giacinto
DM TARDELLI, Marco
CM PIRLO, Andrea
AM RIVERA, Gianni
RW CONTI, Bruno
SS MEAZZA, Giuseppe
ST PIOLA, Silvio

GK COMBI, Gianpiero
GK ZOFF, Dino
CB GENTILE, Claudio
CB NESTA, Alessandro
CB CANNAVARO, Fabio
RB BERGOMI, Giuseppe
LB CABRINI, Antonio
CM BULGARELLI, Giacomo
AM MAZZOLA, Valentino
AM MAZZOLA, Sandro
SS BAGGIO, Roberto
ST RIVA, Luigi

Reserves: Enrico Albertosi, Walter Zenga, Gianluca Pagliuca, Pietro Vierchowod, Ciro Ferrara, Romeo Benetti, Giancarlo Antognoni, Francesco Totti, Alessandro Del Piero, Paolo Rossi and Christian Vieri.

 

And about Italy:

Here, perhaps Baggio instead of Meazza because his main laterality, but it will be trivial detail.

Similar to a Zona Mista system.

 

Argentina

GK FILLOL, Ubaldo
RB ZANETTI, Javier
CB PERFUMO, Roberto
CB PASSARELLA, Daniel
LB MARZOLINI, Silvio
DM MONTI, Luis
CM REDONDO, Fernando
AM MARADONA, Diego
RW MESSI, Lionel
ST BATISTUTA, Gabriel
LW KEMPES, Mario

GK TESORIERE, Américo
GK CARRIZO, Amadeo
CB SALOMÓN, José
CB RUGGERI, Oscar
RB SOSA, Carlos
DM ROSSI, Néstor
CM ARDILES, Osvaldo
AM SASTRE, Antonio
AM MORENO, José Manuel
AM PEDERNERA, Adolfo
SS SÍVORI, Omar
ST LABRUNA, Ángel

Reserves: Hugo Gatti, Roberto Ayala, Walter Samuel, Juan Evaristo, Alberto Tarantini, Javier Mascherano, Diego Simeone, Juan Sebastián Verón, Rinaldo Martino, Ricardo Bochini, Norberto Alonso, Carlos Peucelle, Omar Corbatta, Raimundo Orsi, Félix Loustau, Manuel Seoane, Norberto Méndez, Luis Artime and René Pontoni.

 

No Di Stefano?

 

Zico left winger? lol

 

That was just to show off my draft team. Here's yours:

 

Zico, when he was starting and was too skinny, played on the flanks, not as true winger, a bit similar to Messi when Messi started. But just like Messi, Zico soon became a ponta de lança, which is Pele's position.

 

What Would Be Your All Time Brazil Team And How Will It Play?

 

Anybody, Anyone, Someone, That Dude, That Guy, Him, This one, Pelé, Garrincha, Hey you, João. They will play sending the ball to Pelé and Garrincha.

 

Now Do It Seriously

 

Zico was fast, could drible quite well and pass as well. R10 is the one a bit lost there. The problem with zico as winger is that you lose a suberb finisher. Take Ronaldo out.

 

I’ll Ask You Again What Would Be Your All Time Brazil XI, And How Will It Play. This Time Do It Seriously.

 

Although I think Zico and Pelé could play together, I think including Didi, an AM, would be very little complementary.

This would by my ideal XI in the tactical picture:

[/QUOTE]
Wait So You’re Telling Me Didi Can’t Work As A CM With Zico And Pele As AM’s?

 

I was serious, but maybe

Mussula, Perivaldo, Thiago Silva, Batata, Nonato, Wilson Mano, Biro-Biro, Pele, Garrincha, He-Man and Kafuringa. It would play giving the ball to Pele and Garrincha all the time.

Honestly man, the only thing a NT needs is Pele and Garrincha. The rest can be anyone.

 

Some hot names there! 🤪

I remember Kafuringa in the first (?) edition of the over 34 (?) world cup, the so called Pelé Cup. The supporters were crazy about him and there was a huge mess every time he received the ball. I can't remember what stadium was it... maybe Pacaembu? Nah, I should check indeed.

 

Cool, I have found it!

 

I dont get what you are saying. Didi didnt overlap with Pele and Vava, why would he overlap wit Pele and Zico? Also, the usual difference between Zito and Didi was not how depth or defensively they would play, it is more right and left side of the field. The 4-2-4 system didnt had a prey defender, something that would come only latter.

 

Didi didnt overlap with Pele and Vava, why would he overlap wit Pele and Zico?

I think there is a big difference in that Zico and Vavá were very different from each other. Vavá was a striker, Zico an attacking-midfielder with a lot of arrival at goal. Their areas of action were very different.

In addition to that you refer to the 4-2-4 system in which Didi played as CAM, Pelé as SS and Vavá as ST, while the mentioned system is the 4-2-2-2 proposed with Didi as CM and Pelé and Zico as AM's in front of him.

Also, the usual difference between Zito and Didi was not how depth or defensively they would play, it is more right and left side of the field. The 4-2-4 system didnt had a prey defender, something that would come only latter.

I agree that in depth there was no difference, but in terms of defensive/offensive trend I think it was very clear and not only with that Brazilian national team, but in practically all the Brazilian club teams that made the transition from 3-2-5 to 4-2-4 since the late 1950's/early 1960's. Actually, that pair, Zito as DM and Didi as AM (in a playmaker mold), I think it was one of the first combinations of that type why the transition started massively.

Until then Didi was basically an inside-forward at 3-2-5 (an attacking-midfielder not unlike Zico) for Fluminense and Botafogo, as well as for the Brazilian national team, as in the 1957 South American Championship, where he was about to be the top scorer. Meanwhile, Zito had been playing for Santos in the well-known fourth defender role (basically the midfielder who went back to the defense to recover balls at 3-2-5).

I think that contrast is reflected both in the Brazilian games in 1958 and 1962.

 

OK: Here Is My All Time Brazil XI:

GK: Gilmar
RB: D. Santos
CB: Domingos
CB: M. Ramos
LB: N. Santos
DM: Zito
CM: Didi
RW: Garrincha
SS: Pele
CF: Ronaldo
LW/AM: Zico

Tactics:

Gilmar In Goal. Both N. Santos & D. Santos, Can Defend And Attack. Domingos As A SW/Libero.
M. Ramos As The Stopper.
Zito As The DM.
Didi As The CM.
Garrincha As RW.
Now, If Both Pele And Zico Are Superb Finishers, Then Just Give One Of Them A Different Role To Fit Ronaldo In (Someone Who Should Not Be Left Out IMO).
Pele Can Play The Way He Plays. The “Ponta De Lanca”. But If Zico Has The Attributes, Then Just Play Him In A Different Role To The Role He Mostly Played In. Until Someone Changes My Mind, I’m Playing Zico As A Left AM.

 

@Glavisted
while I like your German team, the Italian team I didn't like so much.
I understand the logic behind it: you prefer to include the best players at the cost of adapting them to a tactical plan, but I would apply the Italian logic which is the team before everything else and I would leave three players of your lineup out: one out of Baresi and Scirea, replaced by a "stopper", one out of Maldini and Facchetti, replaced by a traditional "terzino destro", and finally Rivera, replaced by some hardworking midfielder or "mediano di spinta". If we want to keep your pre-Sacchi lineup (calcio all'italiana, zona mista, whatever you like to call it). I like it more than any post-Sacchi lineup indeed: 4-4-2, 4-3-3 etc. that is.
Vierchowod for Baresi, Gentile* for Maldini (or maybe for Facchetti if you switch positions) and Oriali for Rivera. You instantly have a solid team with every guy in his fav place.


* I didn't include him in my fav 23 but if the tactical plan is the zona mista then I leave Zambrotta out of the 23 because Zambrotta is a wingback and he can be neither chosen over Facchetti/Maldini as a "fluidificante di sinistra" nor over Conti or indeed any other classy "ala tornante di destra" of the 70s or before (Causio, Claudio Sala,...).
Cannavaro could be an option as a man marker but his poor performaces as a right back make me think that even if the right back of the zona mista is something different probably a real right back is a better option than him.

 

It's fair. Seeing it finished I don't like it at all.

Italy always seemed complicated to me in this exercise.
Perhaps abandoning a characteristic system?:

​

Andreolo played his last game with the Italian NT almost eighty years ago. Do you really think I can tell you whether he can be comfortable in a certain lineup or not? 🤭

In this type of exercise I never considered Michele Andreolo for Italy, essentially because I classify him as Uruguayan (as Luis Monti as Argentine), but it would be a great option if he was enabled.

 

Brazil:

———Ronaldo————————Garrincha
—Zico——————Pele——————
—————Didi——————————
—————————Zito——————
N. Santos-M.Ramos-Domingos-D. Santos
———————Gilmar———————

Bench:

Taffarel
Leao
C. Alberto
L. Pereira
Junior
Clodoaldo
Falcao
Jairzinho
Ronaldinho
Zizinho
Rivaldo
Romario

Manager: T. Santana

 

Germany:

——————Muller——————
—Overath—Walter—Rummenigge—
———Breitner———Matthaus———
Brehme-Kohler-Beckenbauer-Vogts———————Kahn———————

Bench:

Maier
Neuer
Lahm
Sammer
Schnellinger
Szymaniak
Schweinsteiger
Schuster
Rahn
Netzer
Seeler
Klinsmann

Manager: Schon

 

Italy:
————Baggio——Piola————
———————Rivera——————Conti
——————————Tardelli———
———————Pirlo———————
Maldini—Baresi—Nesta—Bergomi
———————Buffon———————

Bench:

Zoff
Zenga
Gentile
Scirea
Vierchowod
Facchetti
Benetti
S. Mazzola
V. Mazzola
Totti
Meazza
Riva

Manager: Lippi

 

In tactical terms I prefer Glavistad's teams.

Conti was not a wing forward so there is no way he can be put in a 3-man attack. As regards the midfield see my previous post.

I realize I forgot to mention Bergomi as a solution to the right back position in my reply to Glavistedt!

 

It's the old dilemma, Lasha. You probably gotta lose Rivera (or Pirlo or Baggio or Conti).

Baggio - Piola
Rivera
Tardelli - Pirlo - Oriali
Maldini - Baresi - Nesta - Zambrotta
Buffon​

Or maybe like Italy in 2006 with Rivera instead of Totti and Conti instead of Camoranesi, but that would mean no Baggio.

 

And Why Do I Have To Lose Rivera?
And Scirea Or Baresi?