Uruguay welcomed the World for the first time in football history, Danubian school enjoyed it´s heydays, Wunderteam was born and rraised to glory, Pozzo´s Metodo celebrated success at two consecutive World Cups.

30s were mythical period of football.

 

I don´t feel myself entitled to rank South American teams tbh, I ´ll leave it to someone other.

 

Where would you put France? Bellow crap?

 

Thanks, I edited initial post. Average.

 

Kajoo

how can you rank something like that? Unless you were alive than ok.... but just on results etc... there are almost no videos, no nothing. Apart from that , just check on results etc..

 

Zé,
read tons of books, mostly Slovak & Czech and English. Also, italian & spanish newspapers archive avalaible online (Italian Il Litorialle - nowadays La Gazetta dello Sport, a lot of spanish newspapers avalaible either). I´m not fluent in spanish (+ my italian sucks, too) but from the little I know I´m able to understand basics, what team was superior/inferior etc.

 

Decided to split 20s and 30s, please continue discussion about 30s here

Europe
1930s
World Class: England, Italy, Austria, Hungary
Above average Czechoslovakia, Switzerland, Spain, Scotland
Average: Germany, Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, France
Bellow average: Sweden, Romania,
Crap: Greece, Portugal

The rough aproximation for Top-10 European countries, using ELO ratings. This only measured A-matches between NTs
(I'm considering an average amongt best peaks on 3 periods on each decade)

30seriods 1929-31; 1933-35; 1937-39

Country---------Peak 1----Peak 2---Peak 3---Average
Italia-------------1920-----2008-----2079-----2002
Austria-----------1887-----1998-----1827-----1904
England----------1876------1922----1876-----1891
Scotland---------1942-----1809-----1899-----1883
Spain------------1856-----1919-----1819-----1865
Czechoslovakia---1862-----1861-----1845-----1856
Hungary---------1780------1821----1883-----1828
Germany---------1755------1845----1817-----1806
Sweden----------1779------1745----1665-----1730
Denmark----------1785------1708----1671----1721

Other averages:
Poland - 1712
Wales - 1692
Yugoslavia - 1662
Netherlands - 1656
Portugal - 1652
Norway - 1648
Romania - 1642
Switzerland - 1603
France - 1575
Belgium - 1542

 

In this case, i considered lower/upper level with 100 points of difference:

1st group: 2000 to 1900 (or closer)
Italy, Austria, England

2nd group: 1900 to 1800 (or closer)
Scotland, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Germany

3rd group: 1800 to 1700 (or closer)
Sweden, Denmark, Poland

4th group: 1700 to 1600 (or closer)
Wales, Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Portugal, Norway, Romania, Switzerland

5th group: 1600 to lower (or closer)
France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Greece, Ireland

 

In this case, i considered lower/upper level with 100 points of difference:

1st group: 2000 to 1900 (or closer)
Italy, Austria, England

2nd group: 1900 to 1800 (or closer)
Scotland, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Hungary

3rd group: 1800 to 1700 (or closer)
Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Poland

4th group: 1700 to 1600 (or closer)
Wales, Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Portugal, Norway, Romania, Switzerland

5th group: 1600 to lower (or closer)
France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Greece, Ireland

Thank you for your effort msioux :thumbsup:

My list of 30s is less accurate than 20s, as I seems to heavily overrate Switzerland. Plus/minus 1 level is not bad but 2 levels is just wrong. Im going to check out Switzerland head-to-head record

 

Your list with Scotland in the top tier make me wish I was born 100 years before I was.

of course, if I was then I'd probably have been a crofter in Inverness who never actually came across football. But one can dream of a better time.

 

:howler:

same goes for most of us, Fred

 

Switzerland in 30s

World Class:
England 1-0-1
Italy 0-2-7
Austria 0-0-6
Hungary 2-1-6
Total: 3-3-20

Above average
Czechoslovakia 1-1-4
Spain 0-0-1
Scotland 0-0-1
Total: 1-1-6

Average:
Denmark -
Germany 0-2-5
Yugoslavia 1-1-0
Netherlands 4-0-2
Belgium 2-3-2
Poland 0-2-0
France 2-2-1

Bellow average
Sweden 1-0-2
Romania 0-1-0

Crap:
Greece -
Portugal 3-0-0

 

Netherlands in 30s

World Class:
England 0-0-1
Italy 0-1-0
Austria 0-0-1
Hungary 1-0-2
Total: 1-1-4


Above average
Czechoslovakia 0-0-2
Spain -
Scotland 0-0-1
Total: 0-0-3

Average:
Germany 1-2-1
Yugoslavia
Belgium 12-3-5
Poland
France 2-0-2
Total: 15-5-8

Bellow average
Sweden -
Denmark 2-1-0
Romania -
Switzerland 2-0-4
Portugal-
Total: 4-1-4

Crap:
Greece -
Turkey -

 

Belgium in 30s

World Class:
England 1-0-1
Italy 0-0-2
Austria 0-0-2
Hungary -
Total: 1-0-5


Above average
Czechoslovakia 0-0-1
Spain -
Scotland -


Average:
Germany 0-0-5
Yugoslavia 0-2-0
Netherlands 5-3-12
Poland 2-1-1
France 3-2-7
Total: 10-8-25

Bellow average
Sweden 1-1-1
Denmark 1-1-0
Romania 0-0-1
Switzerland 2-3-2
Portugal 1-0-1
Total: 5-5-5

Crap:
Greece -
Turkey -

 

Germany in 30s

World Class:
England 0-1-2
Italy 1-1-3
Austria 1-0-2
Hungary 2-1-3
Total: 4-3-10


Above average
Czechoslovakia 2-1-1
Spain 1-0-1
Scotland 0-0-1
Total: 3-1-3


Average:
Yugoslavia 2-0-0
Netherlands 1-2-1
Poland 4-1-0
France 2-1-1
Total: 9-4-2

Bellow average
Belgium 5-0-0
Sweden 3-1-1
Denmark 4-0-1
Romania 2-0-0
Switzerland 5-2-0
Portugal 1-1-0
Total: 20-4-2

Crap:
Greece -
Turkey -

 

I edited my list and moved Germany up to 2nd Group + added Wales

1930s
World Class: England, Italy, Austria, Hungary
Above average Czechoslovakia, Spain, Scotland, Germany
Average: Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Poland, France, Norway
Bellow average: Wales, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Romania, Switzerland, Portugal
Crap: Greece, Turkey

 

I wonder how good USSR team would have been? In the mid 40's Dinamo Moscow toured Britain and completely outplayed their counterparts. This isn't just me rambling here, it's historical fact and there are books written on the tour.

 

argentina , uruguay and brazil in world class group since at least WWI

 

I would add main South American NTs, according ELO ratings

30seriods 1929-31; 1933-35; 1937-39

Country-----Peak 1----Peak 2---Peak 3---Average
Argentina-----2034-----1994-----2031-----2020
Uruguay------1986-----1970-----1825-----1927
Brazil---------1781-----1794-----1868-----1814

Other averages:
Paraguay - 1680
Peru - 1607
Chile - 1587

Others < 1500
[/QUOTE]

 

according ELO ratings

Electric Light Orchestra?

 

World Resume at 30s

1st group:
Italy, Austria, England, Argentina

2nd group:
Scotland, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Germany, Uruguay, Brazil

3rd group:
Sweden, Denmark, Poland

4th group:
Wales, Yugoslavia, Netherlands, Portugal, Norway, Romania, Switzerland, Paraguay, Peru, Chile

5th group:
France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Greece, Ireland.


PS: I think Peru had potencial to be 3rd group's NT (1939 SA title prove it), but had very few intl. matches.

BTW, i also think that France & Belgium had potencial to be 4th group.

 

nice :thumbsup:

 

Norway (1930-1939) 62 GP, 27-12-23, 133:132

World Class:
England 0-0-2
Italy 0-0-3
Austria 0-0-0 *
Hungary 0-0-0 **
Total: 0-0-5

* 8.6.1934 Norway vs Austria B 4:0 in Oslo. Austria´s A-team played World Cup 3rd place game just day before this Oslo friendly, so they probably featured only B/C-side. This game isnt counted in official stats.
** Norway won two friendlies vs Hungary B/C side in 1933/1935 but again, those games arent included in Hungary´s official stats. In a game from 20.06.1933 Hungary featured side (Kucsmik (Békéscsabai Előre) – Belesik (BSZKRT), Léhner (BSZKRT) – Kliment (Kecskeméti AC), Steczovits (Elektromos), Király (BSZKRT) – Reiter (Elektromos), Solti (Szegedi KEAC), Szaniszló (DVTK), Presovszky (Perecesi TK), Kemény (FTC) ) which looks like selection made of 2nd division players bar the last one (Kemeny-FTC). Acc.Tempofradi web, it was Hungarian amateur selection.

Above average:
Czechoslovakia 0-0-0
Spain 0-0-0
Scotland 0-0-0
Germany 2-4-1
Total: 2-4-1

Average:
Yugoslavia 0-0-0
Netherlands 0-1-0
Poland 1-1-0
France 0-0-0
Total: 1-2-0

Bellow average:
Wales 0-0-0 *
Belgium 0-0-0
Denmark 3-3-5
Sweden 7-1-6
Romania 0-0-0
Switzerland 1-0-2
Portugal 0-0-0
Total: 11-4-13

* Norway lost unofficial friendly to Wales 1-2 (28.5.1933), not counted in official stats


Crap:
Greece 0-0-0
Turkey 1-0-0


Judging by the above results, I would put Norway borderline 3rd - 4th Group (Average - Bellow Average)

Bottom AVERAGE (3rd Group). They have positive record with 2nd / 3rd Group, and negative with 4th Group.

 

I would rate Peru bonderline 3rd - 4th group, judging for potential to select legendary players at Peru's level.

BTW, circa 1936, i think Austria was downhill (many legends retired), same for Spain, meanwhile Germany was improvement. So those 3 were close strength circa OG'1936, IMO.

 

interesting opinion. Agree with you about Germany, they werent top side but definitely above average. No idea about Norway.

Maybe you remember once we had this older discussion about ranking of countries in 1920s and 1930s, maybe we could bump these old threads and add other countries like Norway.

Teleported from the upsets-thread.

I recently read an article from the 60s on Norway's football-history, and it spoke highly of the late 30s Norway team. Of course it could have suffered from a case of revisionism and failure to look behind the "big" results (Olympics and WC). Not quite sure how well they did beyond those, but at least it wasn't a complete fluke since they both qualified for a WC and did well in the Olympics. It could be added the team had some all-time great players on a Norwegian level. Left-winger Arne Brustad even made it into a FIFA all-star 11 in 1938.

This is a great thread, btw. :thumbsup: Do we have similar ones for other decades besides the 20s and 30s?

 

thanks mate.

unfortunately not, there isnt more threads like this.

You are correct their results on big tournies should be a bonus. I think we should move them to the 3rd Grouop - Average.

 

unfortunately not, there isnt more threads like this.

You are correct their results on big tournies should be a bonus. I think we should move them to the 3rd Grouop - Average.

Too bad, maybe "someone" will create more, hmm? :smileani:

Actually, I meant exactly the opposite. :howler: We shouldn't be blinded by the "big" results, because in a tournament anything can happen. Like Cuba and Sweden in '38. What I meant to say was that Norway had back-to-back "good" results in the late 30s tournaments, so they kinda proved they weren't a fluke-team.

Why do you guys rank tehm so high, with so little results to show for in the main stage?

Have to look at every result, and not just the ones that jump into mind.

I would rate Peru bonderline 3rd - 4th group, judging for potential to select legendary players at Peru's level.

BTW, circa 1936, i think Austria was downhill (many legends retired), same for Spain, meanwhile Germany was improvement. So those 3 were close strength circa OG'1936, IMO.

This raises an interesting point. How big of a bonus should we give a team for having a number of star-players or legends? Or should we focus on results alone, because sometimes the big names don't get the results one would imagine. Are we looking for best teams alone, or teams with the best players?

Spain had a bit of a war going on circa 1936, so there's not much to be made about their strengths at that time. Yes, Austria was rebuilding after the wunderteam, but we never got to see the results since along came the Anschluss and war.

 

With 2 olympic titles in the 20's, how come you guys don't put Uruguay in the top slot?


Also, Argentina in world cups in the 30's only got a runners up position.

Why do you guys rank tehm so high, with so little results to show for in the main stage?

brazil got a semis in 38

 

With 2 olympic titles in the 20's, how come you guys don't put Uruguay in the top slot?

Zé, this one is about 30s.

As for SA teams, I fully relied on msioux. 1930 World Cup title was yet won by 1920s generation. When this generation retired they didnt have adequate replacement and their boycott of 34/38 Cups was more or less tactical withdrawal.

Also, Argentina in world cups in the 30's only got a runners up position.

Why do you guys rank tehm so high, with so little results to show for in the main stage?

brazil got a semis in 38

Czechoslovakia had 1x SF and 1QF World Cup record and are only in 2nd group, too.

Argentine is similar situation like Hungary, we didnt only counted with their results but also amount of world class palyers they produced. Italy would probably never won 1934 World Cup without stealing oriundi from Argentine (Monti, Orsi, Guaita), at the same time with them in line-up their results would be probably even better. Not Argentine´s fault FIFA did nothing against this thievery.

 

Chile had a great team.
Ulises Poirier !
Guillermo Subiabre
Guillermo Riveros
Victor Morales

David Arellano had just died by accident at a soccer field.

 

feel free to provide your claim by stats from friendlies + competitive games bro.

 

In my opinion Uruguay and Italy were the World Class but everyone knows the Mecca of football at that time was Central Europe

Prague, Budapest, and Vienna were the center of the world. Hungary, Czechs, and Hungary were the most talented teams in the world. Only history knows why they couldn't piece it together to win anything important

Also Romania was actually as talented as someone like Hungary, having many Hungarian ethnic players like Bodola, Baratky, and Dobay who were considered among the best in Europe. Like always tho Romanians don't know how to play like a team so we sucked

 

Friendlies importance until 80's, when the NTs had more time to prepare their squads and all. The small time, selection of adverssaries based more on the money they paid, world wide excess of competitive matches (new SA classificatory format, olympics importance all again, Confederation Cup, more teams on Euro and World Cup) and the fight wit clubs (main factor in my opinion) during 90's -00's destroyed friendies reputation.

 

LOL

Chile had an awful record in South American Championship in the 30s

2-1-9

 

But Chile was 5 position in the world cup.
At that time America's Cup was harder than the World Cup.
played Uruguay!!!!! Brazil and Argentina.
Chile always behind them, logical.

When hasn't Chile had a great team in your mind?

In 2000s after Olympic bronze medal - to 2007 and Puerto Ordazo.
That was the worst time in the history of Chilean football
A national team level

To club level is 1998 to 2005

That was the worst decade of Chilean football.

feel free to provide your claim by stats from friendlies + competitive games bro.

For friendly and official matches Chile beat him twice to Mexico beat France, drew with Holland in the Netherlands, Chile beat twice to Paraguay, beat Ecuador, Argentina in equal once, lost twice to Argentina, once Uruguay and Brazil, lost 3 times against Peru and won only once to Peru.