To be fair some ultras are generally good people who aren't as driven towards violence as others.

 

Without doubt, the Vicente Calderon has the worst hotbed of ultras in Spain. I always wondered why people keep talking about Madrid and Franco, when Atletico are the ones who have much stronger historical links with facism. After the Spanish civil war, Atletico were even called Aviacion, which is Spanish for "Air Force". So as you can imagine, they had all the best players from the (facist) military, and even to this day, their ultras are proud of it. :yuck:

The Madridismo ultras are just all mouth, not that I condone it, but at least they aren't stabbing people outside the stadium. We're a middle-class club, how many incidents have their been even though it's been more than 30 years since Franco's death? The only thing that bothers me is the racism that is sadly evident amongst some of the ultras, but I think the situation is better than 30 years ago. The birth of multi-cultural and multi-faith cities and the general integration of foreign communities in Spain has helped ultras to understand the reality.

Personally, I hate those bastards from Osasuna more than any other place. Shit, those a$$holes still live in medieval times and have no sense of decency.

 

All just mouth? LOL, read "Diario de un skin" to see how deeply rooted your precious ultras sur are in the madrid neo nazi movement. They are some of the most violent and malicious thugs in the country. And the link between Franco and Mandrill have more to do with political favours and manevering dating back to the 50´s, and little to do with the current ultras sur culture.

 

All just mouth? LOL, read "Diario de un skin" to see how deeply rooted your precious ultras sur are in the madrid neo nazi movement. They are some of the most violent and malicious thugs in the country. And the link between Franco and Mandrill have more to do with political favours and manevering dating back to the 50´s, and little to do with the current ultras sur culture.

It's all mouth, rarely does it turn to actual physical violence. I don't see fans getting murdered outside the Santiago Bernabeu, do you? Of course as a Cule you have to make the situation sound 100 times than it actually is. The Ultra Sur movement is not as bad as it was a few decades ago, the club has made a real effort to root out this problem, although admittedly factions remain.

Every club has shameful supporters, including your pathetic Boix Nois.

 

It's all mouth, rarely does it turn to actual physical violence. I don't see fans getting murdered outside the Santiago Bernabeu, do you? Of course as a Cule you have to make the situation sound 100 times than it actually is. The Ultra Sur movement is not as bad as it was a few decades ago, the club has made a real effort to root out this problem, although admittedly factions remain.

Every club has shameful supporters, including your pathetic Boix Nois.

The difference being the Boixos Nois are no longer welcome in the stadium. And fans get brutalized and beaten all the time outside the bernabeu by your ultras sur thugs, who still enjoy all the priveleges of club affiliation.

 

I gave my opinion in the World Football Forum...so I am just gonna copy and paste :lazy: p

This Ultra groups situation is quite sticky.

Sometimes I wish they (Boixos Nois) were present in the Camp Nou. Our loudest nights, and the most entertaining from our fans in Europe last season, was in Stamford Beach and Paris. The crowd didn't stop singing, and as much as we hate to admit it, it was all down to th Boixos Nois.

I must admit that they are a positive vibe in a way. But if I was given an ultimatum I would definately want them out.

Yep you're right regarding Liverpool, and English football as a whole.

That's why I mentioned Barcelona and the Boixos Nois. It's not only with Barcelona, but Madrid aswell. When a couple of years ago Rivaldo scored a goal in the Bernabeau, and he started whistling, telling the fans indirectly to keep on whistling. The Bernabeau almost exploded, I felt they were about to jump onto the pitch and kick his ass. While last season Eto'o's Black Power salut provoked a couple of whistles and jeers. And this right after he called them cabrones.

These days the fans will only make noise when there is a goal, a nice play or move, or a controversial decision. As I said I felt we were louder against Chelsea in their own stadium than in ours. We get the odd cheers in the upper levels of Camp Nou, but you know how big the Camp Nou is.

Laporta took away their seats behind the goals, where the fans could be the loudest. Now these seats are filled with mostly foreigners, those who find a ticket at the last minute, and the usual idiot who thinks it's nice to take his girlfriend to the game.

As I said at some points I feel the Ultras are good in a way, they can be the 12th man on the pitch. But that doesn't excuse everything else they do.

 

I know one Barca Ultra who broke an Italian car in Athens after 4-0 rout .

 

I know one Barca Ultra who broke an Italian car in Athens after 4-0 rout .

:mute:

 

Barça AT19... you're very wrong. They already got too many ultimatums and they never learnt the lesson. Don't get wrong, they are a threat even for other fellow Barça fans who don't agree with their idea. Several members of other young fan groups were threatened by them in the Camp Nou, because they only care about themselves. The Camp Nou was about to close just because of them. They're a bunch of nazis who don't respect anyone. Barça don't need them at all.

 

It's all mouth, rarely does it turn to actual physical violence. I don't see fans getting murdered outside the Santiago Bernabeu, do you? Of course as a Cule you have to make the situation sound 100 times than it actually is. The Ultra Sur movement is not as bad as it was a few decades ago, the club has made a real effort to root out this problem, although admittedly factions remain.

Man, they're not better than they were 15 years ago. They're less people, but that's all. Noone died near the Bernabeu, but it's not that they never tried it. Ochaita (their leader) tried to snab a knife on a Barça basketball player not long ago, just to say an example. There are reports about several attacks in the surroundings of the Bernabeu against black people, Portuguese people, Basque fans, etc. and these things happened in the 2000s.

Florentino only did half of the job, but they're still there. The Ultrassur are a bunch of nazis that use Madrid to make their political propaganda and it's reported that this is part of a plan of the nazi organizations to attract young people. Kids get attracted by the idea of being part of a passionate fan group, with "nice" flags and banners, singing, etc.. But behind all this, there's a plan to recruit young guys to be part of nazi skins groups.

Every club has shameful supporters, including your pathetic Boix Nois.

Sure, but Barça did more against the Boixos than Real Madrid and that's a fact. Laporta received death threats from them, 9 people are in jail because of this. He had to change his house because the pressure on his family was huge.

Boixos=Ultrassur. I don't care if they're Barça fans. They're fúcking nazis. There's no way to defend them, there's no way to say that they're a bit better nowadays. Whenever someone says something like that, they always do something worse few time later.

The ultra movement should disappear from the football stadiums. I don't want Spain to be like Italy where you can't go to some stadiums with your kids.

 

What do you think about this situation? How could the ultras be sent out of the stadiums?

Well, in general terms I agree what is said. And I would add that there are few very risky games, but on my view, Ultras have more facilities in away games, where they more unknown and mixed with the other 'normal' supporters.

I said that on other threads, but for example, Boixos Nois are more than 200 in Montjuïc, with fireworks and other stuff they never use at Camp Nou, or BB BB show in Tarragona last week has never seen recently in Montjuïc, where they behave in home games.

This is a shame because at the end the usual supporter thinks if it is safe for him being in the same place as Ultras in away matches, where you have to wait 45' at least to go out, and hoping no single fan missbehave, because then everything can happen with the 'security' and 'police' men next.

On my view, clubs should promote more travelling to away matches in order to avoid Ultras represent the club; and at the same time try to have points in common with the Ultras in benefit for the club and supporters in order to change their Ultra condition to a Peña as the other ones.

 

Personally, I hate those bastards from Osasuna more than any other place.

Yup.

I absolutely hate those pieces of shit.

 

Cant stand Osasuna, the funny thing is that Pamplona is really a beautiful city with friendly people but their fans are just a bunch of assholes. Cant stand their stadium, their fans, their players, their jerseys, anything about them.

 

Well, in general terms I agree what is said. And I would add that there are few very risky games, but on my view, Ultras have more facilities in away games, where they more unknown and mixed with the other 'normal' supporters.

I said that on other threads, but for example, Boixos Nois are more than 200 in Montjuïc, with fireworks and other stuff they never use at Camp Nou, or BB BB show in Tarragona last week has never seen recently in Montjuïc, where they behave in home games.

This is a shame because at the end the usual supporter thinks if it is safe for him being in the same place as Ultras in away matches, where you have to wait 45' at least to go out, and hoping no single fan missbehave, because then everything can happen with the 'security' and 'police' men next.

On my view, clubs should promote more travelling to away matches in order to avoid Ultras represent the club; and at the same time try to have points in common with the Ultras in benefit for the club and supporters in order to change their Ultra condition to a Peña as the other ones.

I agree with you. IMO, the club perfectly know (or they have the tools to know) who are the members of the ultra groups. I don't know what's the legal situation of the Boixos Nois. I don't know if they're a legal "penya" or not. If they are, I think that the club already know their misbehaviour and there are enough reasons to take them off that condition and the advantages of it. If they are not, the club shouldn't allow their symbols in the stadium.

I can't complain about Laporta's attitude in this case, since he even put his life in danger. But I'd not mind to finish with them forever and the club should do everything in their hands to do it.

What I say, it could be applied to any other ultra group. Otherwise, the clubs must accept all the responsability of their actions.

In general, I think that we can not complain much. These groups were huge in the 80s. I recall how the Boixos filled stands behind the goal. And the same happened with the BB.BB. or the Ultrassur. Only the Frente Atlético seems huge nowadays... and also the Biris of Sevilla and the Supporters of Betis. And I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the violent actions in recent years happened in these stadiums.

 

The bastards, pieces of shit and assholes are some of the posts in this thread and not the Osasuna supporters.

Give me bastards, pieces of shit and asshole fans who pressure their rival by a hostile atmosphere for the players inside the stadium (although, true, sometimes a bit too far)... but yes, give me them a thousand times instead of the 'all mouth' fans who organize "the hunting of the basque" outside the stadium sending peple to the hospital as is well exposed in the documental by Tiger88. Yes, that people who have all kind of privileges from their board.

Funnily enough, some of the people who have written in this post -arab, I guess- wouldn't have any single problem to sit in the north stand of El Sadar. I'm still waiting for a racist chant in Iruñea. I would pay him to see if he has the balls to sit in the south stand of Bernabeu.

People should ask themselves why Madrid isn't well received in Iruñea. For some strange reason people don't seem to like going for an away match and pass the night in the hospital, I don't understand it, honestly, that's a great experience. Truth is at least they returned, not as other basque fan who visited the same city for a UEFA Cup game...

 

Gora indar gorri

 

Let me tell you that I don't like Indar Gorri at all, they hide behind a supposed non-political status to accept all kind of people with the only objective of growing. -Tafalla section anyone!?- And sometimes it goes out of their hands, I've had to stand them in San Mamés constantly insulting an Athletic player: "(David) Cuéllar muérete!".

Said that, they're Mother Teresa compared to others.

 

Yes, to all the things Txupa said... but Indar Gorri shouldn't throw anything to the field. They can boo, scream, insult and everything they want, but the goalie of Real Madrid isn't the one who organize the chasing of the Basques.

It's actually interesting this thing. Traditionally, Osasuna and Madrid never had bad relationships. In fact, many players of that zone played in some of the best Madrid's ever. Everything went rotten when the Ultrassur appeared into scene. But the actions of the Ultrassur can't be paid with the same coin (and they never did!!! but they shouldn't throw objects).

In any case, I don't think it's a good idea to diferentiate between the good and the bad. Of course, there are levels. But I'd love to erradicate these bastard ultras from the stadiums. The Biris may be "reds" or closer to my ideas, but when they go a hit a steward or try to hit the Betis goalkeeper, I can only see the same "fascist" attitude of the others.

The same goes for the Boixos. I don't care if they love Barça to the bone. I only see a bunch of nazis in them.

I tend to like the Indar Gorri guys, but they should be the ones who expose the idiot that throw shit on the name of the club they support when they throw an object. If not, they are responsible of what it happens there.

 

Do a lot of these ultra's travel to away games, generally I've noticed in Liga that their are very little away fans (approx. 300) is this more related to laws, travel problems or lack of interest.

 

Do a lot of these ultra's travel to away games, generally I've noticed in Liga that their are very little away fans (approx. 300) is this more related to laws, travel problems or lack of interest.

It's not about laws. AFAIK, there's no law that forbids the fans to travel to see their team. I can buy a ticket in the Bernabeu or the Calderón, if I wanted, but I don't want to be in the middle of the rival crowd. I know that the clubs have to keep a certain percentage for the rivals, in case they want to use it. Something that almost never happens.

Travel problems? Sometimes. It depends on the city. It's hard to go from Vigo to Valencia or from Bilbao to Sevilla. Spain is bigger than England. Your cities are very near each other and many clubs play in the same city. In any case, this is not the only factor.

Lack of interest? That's the most important factor. First of all, travelling isn't cheap. A lot of money to travel, a lot of money to get a ticket... and if the game finish at 11 or 12 PM, get a room in a hotel. And besides, the Spanish fans never traveled much. If the fans only had the support of their clubs... but they don't help at all.

 

Thanks for summing hat up nicely, the reason i saod law is because in England after Hillsborough we had the Taylor report which said clubs should limit the number of away fans, usually nowadays 3,000 away supporters only, this was the logical step or else before we had big clubs and even medium clubs takng 10,000+ to away games, that can be 1/4 of a stadia and can cause problems, especially in a fierce match or under the inluence of alcohol.

The cultures in Spanish and English football are different and it's nice to see different styles and perspectives for someone like me.

Away games in England are also expensive, even home games, do you know that the average a ootball fan spends on a day out is £70 or if you take 2 kids £200. :eekani:

I wanted to watch Liverpool when they came to my home city of Birmingham, when they played Birmingham City, the ticket price was £43 :eekani: i missed it but we won 7-0 :happy:

 

It's actually interesting this thing. Traditionally, Osasuna and Madrid never had bad relationships. In fact, many players of that zone played in some of the best Madrid's ever. Everything went rotten when the Ultrassur appeared into scene. But the actions of the Ultrassur can't be paid with the same coin (and they never did!!! but they shouldn't throw objects).

The institutional relationships are perfect, Patxi Izco is the greatest madridista of all Navarre. The hypocrite who breaks relationships with Athletic for signing a player and at the same time promotes the opening of a R.Madrid football school in the Ribera of Navarre. School that steals many Osasuna players and often works with Osasuna material, pitches etc.. thanks to Izco. People are mad at him for that, and many other decissions regarding Izco and Madrid, hence the common:

And of course IG shouldn't throw anything to the pitch, that's simply stupid.

but the goalie of Real Madrid isn't the one who organize the chasing of the Basques.

Just mention that he does give his shirt to the ones who organize the chasing of the basque, though.

 

Athletic normally moves 3000-5000 fans to the stadiums where we are well received. (Soria, Salamanca, A Coruña, Donostia, Pamplona, Vigo, Vitoria, Cádiz...) well, maybe not so many to Cádiz since it's veeery far. And often organizes invasions, as to the unwelcoming Santander last season (5000) or Liège (3500) and Vienna (5000) in our last UEFA Cup campaign.

Btw, 5000-6000 Osasuna supporters expected in Bordeaux next week, although this one is a short trip.

 

Just mention that he does give his shirt to the ones who organize the chasing of the basque, though.

But only because he's a total dumbass, not because he's a nazi or even racist. I also recall what Casillas said about the war of Iraq: "If the president Aznar takes us there, it must be because he knows something that we don't"... only Britney Spears says something like that... I wish you could have heard his voice... it wasn't the kind of speech of someone who is in the right, just the voice of a total dumb. Casillas fits in the description of Ramón Calderón. Many players are big ignorants. I'm sure Casillas don't know shit about all these things. Yeah, he probably should. But when I see him, I think that he is not a bad guy. As you can guess, I don't have a special love for him. But I truly believe he's not a bad guy. He's just dumb, ignorant. But not Di Canio. That's all.

When I say he's dumb... I don't pretend to insult him... I just give a description.

 

Athletic normally moves 3000-5000 fans to the stadiums where we are well received. (Soria, Salamanca, A Coruña, Donostia, Pamplona, Vigo, Vitoria, Cádiz...) well, maybe not so many to Cádiz since it's veeery far. And often organizes invasions, as Santander last season (5000) or Liège (3500) and Vienna (5000) in our last UEFA Cup campaign.

Btw, 5000-6000 Osasuna supporters expected in Bordeaux next week, although this one is a short trip.

Add Alicante there. Well, it's true that lots of Basques live there. The year that Hercules was in Primera, I took a season ticket to see some Primera football. The day that Athletic played in Alicante... jesus, they were A LOT of people. And the nice thing was that they were mixed among the local fans. It was nice. :thumbsup: