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Retry of my "Ronaldinho in the bag" thread

6.9K views 278 replies 52 participants last post by  Husain  
#1 ·
Well he's in the bag guys, PSG officials claiming "PSG officials said last night it was "99.9% certain he will leave for Manchester"."

Brazil target all but United's

Daniel Taylor
Thursday June 5, 2003
The Guardian

Manchester United emerged from a day of extensive negotiations with Paris St-Germain yesterday convinced they have all but finalised Ronaldinho's transfer to Old Trafford. The player is in Brazil discussing the move with his family but has provisionally agreed a five-year deal, with an annual salary of ÂŁ3.2m.
Peter Kenyon, United's chief executive, broke off from negotiating with potential buyers for David Beckham to spend the day in France hoping to conclude a deal that would make Ronaldinho the first Brazilian to play for the club. He has offered ÂŁ9m and, although PSG wanted a figure closer to ÂŁ12m, Valencia and Juventus have been unwilling to follow up their inquiries by getting involved in an auction.

Sir Alex Ferguson, currently on holiday in southern France, was kept abreast of yesterday's events and is awaiting confirmation from Ronaldinho's advisers.

PSG officials said last night it was "99.9% certain he will leave for Manchester".

After a year-long pursuit of the 23-year-old, Ferguson will hope the move happens sooner rather than later, preferably before Brazil play in the Confederations Cup in France later this month. If, as Kenyon is increasingly optimistic, PSG accept ÂŁ9m, United will also reflect on a piece of sound business given that they were quoted ÂŁ18m after Ronaldinho had starred in the World Cup last summer.

The arrival of one of the world's most high-profile players will ease the sense of disquiet among United's fans, who are growing increasingly resigned to the idea of Beckham being sold.

Kenyon's admission that he had spent Tuesday in London negotiating a ÂŁ30m deal with Sandro Rosell, a representative of the Barcelona presidential candidate Joan Laporta, has effectively ended the argument about whether United intend to sell the England captain.

It also enticed the first admission from Beckham's representatives that a move is possible. "He has said that he wants to stay with United," said Jon Holmes, the managing director of SFX. "If the club alter their view - and it needs all parties to change their view - then, of course, everything is possible in football."

Kenyon also discussed the possibility of United signing Patrick Kluivert with Rosell, although it is unlikely they will want him as well as Ronaldinho. Ferguson sees Ronaldinho as the ideal partner to play just behind Ruud van Nistelrooy. Where that leaves Paul Scholes, who scored 20 goals from that position last season, remains to be seen.
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http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,970569,00.html
 
#27 ·
Bono i think your being very harsh on the premier league. Your correct in saying the standard of defending in the EPL has been fairly bad and shocking at times, probably one of our biggest down falls in the CL this year. But to single out teams and claim we have the worst defences in Europe is obviously wrong.
 
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#29 ·
Russell said:
Bono i think your being very harsh on the premier league. Your correct in saying the standard of defending in the EPL has been fairly bad and shocking at times, probably one of our biggest down falls in the CL this year. But to single out teams and claim we have the worst defences in Europe is obviously wrong.
He didn't say defending in Europe, he said in the EPL.
 
#31 ·
Doc_Rule said:
He didn't say defending in Europe, he said in the EPL.
Your right he did, but that does not change my post. I am giving a reason as to why i think the CL tournament was such a wash out for the English clubs. It needed to be brought up because Bono made a statement concerning our defences.
 
#32 ·
Anders, not only that. They have sometimes a much better mentality. We all know what is Spanish mentality. Look at theier NT. If they hadnt had th eforeigners ... Pfuu. EPL teams do NOT perfoem better than Seria A teams. Not in the last 15 yrs since I watch football. I havent seen teh legendary L'pool, cant tell.

Besides, Euro performance is not a good arguement.
In europe you have the top 4 to 6 teams. They are always good, almost. And they do not speak so much of the level of the league in general. I mean, Real and Barca have always been up there even when EPL was 3rd or even 4rth best. Same for ManU and to certain extend Arsenal and even Pool with their UEFA cup thing.

But even then, it is obvious that top Setia Teams are simply superb in D skills to any, and defintely to EPL. I would say even RealM and Barca (not talking about Valencia and Depor) are much better D-wsie than Arsenal and N'castle. Even Real M with their pathtic D and totally different mentality.

BUT, I am talking abiou th eLeagues in general. Anyone, I think, who watches EPL, Serie A and La Liga (even Bundesliga) regularly can see the diference of styles. EPL simply doesnt appricate D skills, period. Its not bad, its different. But to claim what Doc has said is just ... well, sorry, but - funny! :rolleyes:
 
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#33 ·
In matches between English teams and Italian teams throughout the history of the European Cup, English have a far superior record.

The reason many teams in Italy have better defensive records in their league than English clubs have in the EPL, is cos of a less attacking style of play and the fact that the top two(Juve and Inter) play anti-football and look to win most games 1-0.English teams are far more attack minded than Italian and German teams. Lack of attacking football is as much the reason for the great defensive records in Seria A as good defending is. Even top players in Italy have admitted as much

I'd also have a bet that I watch more games in ALL leagues than practically anyone here and am in a better position to judge defenses than people like Bono who sits at home with blinkered views that everything-Italian is great and everything non-Italian is poor.
 
#34 ·
Ronaldinho isn't a footballer, despite what all the highlight packages suggest. He's got the tricks and the dance moves, but he's got a long way to go to become a genuine intelligent footballer. And if you thought Veron defended badly or held the ball too long, you haven't seen nothing yet. Unlike Veron or Scholes who tries to defend but is just hopeless nevertheless, Ronaldinho will not get off his arse because he doesn't like his hair messed up.
 
#35 ·
Doc,

Going personal here is definitely NOT the answer, baby. OK?! ;)

Now, would you agree that Serie A has AT LEAST as good a quality of attacking players as EPL? Then, there goes you arguement about styles influencing the D factor. In fact, it is the opposite.

I dont believe I am having an arguement like "Which Laugue has the best D in teh world"! :confused: I havent said SerieA or La Liga is better than EPL, have I? I would guess you would be proud of not having the best D among these three and four! I dont get it now.

Anyway, I have exhausted my arguements here. Thsi one is about Ronladinho anyway. He will do great in EPL. He is going in the best EPL club and one of the best in Europe.

Good luck! :cool:
 
#38 ·
Orange said:
Even if I don't agree with all of what Bono said here, this comment which I quoted from you is pretty bold and also slightly arrogant.
But if his comment is true, i don't see why he would lie. Then he has a point. :)


Thsi one is about Ronladinho anyway. He will do great in EPL. He is going in the best EPL club and one of the best in Europe.
Thanks for that Bono, your welcome in this forum anytime. ;)
 
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#39 ·
Politician said:
Ronaldinho isn't a footballer, despite what all the highlight packages suggest. He's got the tricks and the dance moves, but he's got a long way to go to become a genuine intelligent footballer. And if you thought Veron defended badly or held the ball too long, you haven't seen nothing yet. Unlike Veron or Scholes who tries to defend but is just hopeless nevertheless, Ronaldinho will not get off his arse because he doesn't like his hair messed up.
agreed, good post
 
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#43 ·
bono said:


Now, would you agree that Serie A has AT LEAST as good a quality of attacking players as EPL? Then, there goes you arguement about styles influencing the D factor. In fact, it is the opposite.

Throughout all teams(from top to bottom) in both league The EPL has better attacking players IMO, and a better style of play, which leads to more attacking football, which leads to more goals, which leads to lower defensive stats.

Most Seria A teams play a conservative style, which leads to a negative style of play, which leads to less attacking football, which leads to less goals which leads to higher defensive stats.
 
#44 ·
Orange said:
He can't possibly know that he sees more games than the rest of us, and even if he did, would that definetly make him a more suitable candidate to judge the defenses of the different teams?

No? I didn't think so.
Well if he has seen more games of football then any of us this season, and has seen each team at least twice he could be in a better position to judge teams abilities better then most.

Then again Doc is only offering an opinion, nothing more.
 
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#46 · (Edited)
Orange said:
Are you certain?
I've seen tapes of about 80% of all league matches in the four major european leagues this season, and a good number from France(mainly LeHarve and Monaco games)

Plus I've been to around 60 EPL games, 10 or so Seria A games(mainly at the start of the season, bored me to tears, can't be arsed going back) and 7 La Liga games and 3 Le Harve games to see the Liverpool boys. Only 2 visits to Germany though, pity I enjoyed both games.
 
#47 ·
Doc_Rule said:
Throughout all teams(from top to bottom) in both league The EPL has better attacking players IMO, and a better style of play, which leads to more attacking football, which leads to more goals, which leads to lower defensive stats.

Most Seria A teams play a conservative style, which leads to a negative style of play, which leads to less attacking football, which leads to less goals which leads to higher defensive stats.
I would say it is EXACTLY the other way around. The 1st thing an italina learns is how to defend. Hence, a special stress on that in the league, hence even th ebest of the best in the world haveing extremely hard time making it there. Anyone who has played both in Serie A and La Liga/EPL knows that and is a good example. You are not claiming ZZ was poorer offensively individually at Juve than he is in REal? Simply, in Spain he has twice as much space and is able to breath, while in Serie A this is simply a no-no.

Then again, how can you name one style of play as "better" is beyond me. Could be more opened, less defensive, and so on ... but "better"???

And NO, EPL doesnt have better attacking players trhan Serie A. Please ... EPL teams simply do not care about D so much and cant poerform it on such a level. Take any two teams from teh same level of the two tables and compare the quality of player sone by one. You will see what I mean. May be the top 3 or 4 shoudl be excluded again, due to reasons i have pointed out, i.e. to have a realy representative stats.
 
#48 ·
Orange said:
I could continue arguing about this, but it's not important and pretty useless. However, claiming a person claiming that he is the best suited to have an opinion on football, is not just "offering an opinion".
Your right, it is useless. When i said he was offering an opinion i meant on teams abilities, not that he thought he was best suited or more able a judge on teams. Obviously that was a very conceited and arrogant statement.


I've seen tapes of about 80% of all league matches in the four major european leagues this season, and a good number from France(mainly LeHarve and Monaco games)
And you wrote a report on each one? :confused:
 
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#49 ·
bono said:
I would say it is EXACTLY the other way around. The 1st thing an italina learns is how to defend. Hence, a special stress on that in the league, hence even th ebest of the best in the world haveing extremely hard time making it there. Anyone who has played both in Serie A and La Liga/EPL knows that and is a good example. You are not claiming ZZ was poorer offensively individually at Juve than he is in REal? Simply, in Spain he has twice as much space and is able to breath, while in Serie A this is simply a no-no.

Then again, how can you name one style of play as "better" is beyond me. Could be more opened, less defensive, and so on ... but "better"???

And NO, EPL doesnt have better attacking players trhan Serie A. Please ... EPL teams simply do not care about D so much and cant poerform it on such a level. Take any two teams from teh same level of the two tables and compare the quality of player sone by one. You will see what I mean. May be the top 3 or 4 shoudl be excluded again, due to reasons i have pointed out, i.e. to have a realy representative stats.

I'm getting bored of this, you are talking complete nonsense.

1. FROM TOP TO BOTTOM EPL CLUBS HAVE BETTER ATTACKERS THAN SERIA A CLUBS
2. EPL CLUBS IN GENERAL HAVE A MORE ATTACKING STYLE OF PLAY THAN SERIA A CLUBS
3. MANY SERIA A CLUBS PLAY NEGATIVE DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL, ONLY A HANDFUL OF EPL CLUBS DO.
4. BY BETTER STYLE I MEAN BETTER TO WATCH AND MORE FUN FOR THE PLAYERS
5. ZIDANE IS A BETTER PLAYER NOW THAT HE HAS LEFT THE ANTI-FOOTBALL CONSTRAINS OF TURIN, HE'S SAID THIS HIMSELF.

I could post more but I'm leaving the office now and I'm going into hospital in the morning for an operation on my back, So i'll be back in a couple of weeks.
 
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#50 ·
Russell said:
.

And you wrote a report on each one? :confused:
Many of them, other journalists who are contracted to do them and can't be arsed will hire me to do them, I'll write the report, they might change the wording around abit or change it to do the domestic language it if need be, it'll be printed under their name, but i get 60% of their fee
 
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#51 ·
Orange said:
I could continue arguing about this, but it's not important and pretty useless. However, claiming a person claiming that he is the best suited to have an opinion on football, is not just "offering an opinion".
I said i was in a better position than most to give an opinion on all the leagues as a whole and IMO I am. Not on individual leagues mind but when comparing all four leagues against one and other I believe I am, I could be wrong though