WOW

I must say I´m impressed.
Very interesting to read, I didn´t even know about some of those incidents, for example the "Auschwitz"-banner (Jesus Christ, this is disgusting! :yuck: )

This bunch of idiots really are a problem for Lazio, but how should Cragnotti deal with them?
What more can he do then saying "We don´t want such fans at the club"?


Thanx, the post really was worth the read.

 

I read a part of your long (coz the idea is kind of repeating itself) post. I rememeber that before the season Cragnotti had said that he's going to take care of the racism problem in fields, and he'll start with his own problematic team. I recall he had said: "If we'll need to play without audience, we will. Lazio will not contain Nazi fans inside the Olimpico". I really don't know what happened. Maybe he is doing something, i know nothing about it. The facts speaks for themselvs - Too many unpleasant unappropriate accidents had happened to Lazio this year (1 is more than enough), and i think it should be stopped now.
I speak as an Israeli jew. WW2 had begun in the famous "crystal night", where people had moved along jews stores and smashed the windows. I'm just afraid for the Laziali fans, who are simply kids and influenced by their parents and audience they see in games. It can increase.
I'm really afraid for such an accident. What will happen if Lazio will be facing an Israeli club? It'll require a harder security than the Leeds - Galatasaray\Besiktas games. My friends from my last school liked Lazio, but never dared to fan them because of their opinions. They had always cursed the Laziali players and Lazio itself, hoping they'll be dead, and no explanation of mine helped.
Looking at the situation in the world today, Italy is the biggest spot for Neo-Nazis, even bigger than Germany.
Go fig, maybe there's another Hitler\Moussolini on the grow now. Look at Romania today: Neo-Nazi "Romania Mara" (great Romania) had won the most mandats in the elections, and if i'm not mistaking, the Prime minister of them is from that party as well. You have Heider in Austria. You have a lot of minorities as well in Europe in total.

People should not talk about it as a subject, coz it's a problem, and problems are there to be solved. The question is: who will solve it? who will begin this change, even inside the small, yet influencial territory of soccer. Cragnotti should be the man. People will respect him much more, rather than if he'll bring Rivaldo, or Figo, or whatever to Rome. When we're talking about countries, i think that the UN should interfere in such problems. Even if it sometimes seen like denying the democracy, it's the right thing to do. Even Hitler got to the thrown through democracy. Imagine that Romania 2001 will become Germany 1935. Unthinkable! And it could, and will happen, unless someone will do something about it. All of those racists don't even know why they hate jews, and blacks, and japanese. If you'll ask them, most of them will not have a clue how to answer you, because they're influenced.
There comes a time in life, where you have to stop for a moment there, and ask yourself: What the hell do i want? What the hell do i know about what i stand for?

My parents belong to the left party in Israel, so naturally, i was a part of it too, until i started to think: What the hell every side stands for? And for my huge surprise, i had discovered that my opinions tend more to the right rather to the left. That's just an example.
Small things such as this can ruin society.

It starts with every single one of us, who should try to think of what he thinks about his opinions, and try to ask others that question! You'll be surprised to see i'm right!
I've tried this experiment already, and i realized i was right.

And i'm not joking. Try to do so. Moreover, People will respect you more for you are looking at things at a different, "not thinked of", line of thought.

All the best,

Shy

 

I was, am, and always will be anti-nato, am I being a fascist and rascist person for saying that? Last time I checked nato wasn't a race...

 

I know for some of you it's hard to swollow, but you have too. These guys are pure pigs, nothing else. They are'nt fans, they are'nt hooligans and they disgrace soccer. Real fans support there team to death with flags, scarfs, banners ect of the team, not racist jokes and threats. I hope all of Curva Nord burns in hell or I hope they play Ajax where alot of jews wiould be in attendance so they could teach them!!!!

And to Azur, it's nothing to be ashamed of the team. The players are'nt really like this cause you support the team not the fans. Just some friendly advice; if you are in europe, don't go into a non-lazio oriented bar with a lazio jersey cause your dead if you open your mouth. 2, don't say you love everything about lazio because they see you as a nazi. 3, if you talk about lazio, say you love the TEAM, nothing else.

l8z

 

But what you're saying isn't solving the problem Spaniard..
You are ignoring it, and letting it go away, just like most people do... I'm not trying to offend you, just saying what i think.

Pandur, did i say that anyone who is against Nato is a racist? i don't think i did, but on the other hand, i could be wrong. I would be glad if you'll quote me and tell me if i said such a thing.

Anyhow, i think that we should face this problem and not escape from it as we always do.

 

I found some of these articles offending themselves. They accuse Lazio of being racist and then they use racism in their articles themselves.

 

Well spoken azur! Quality post.

I love the team Lazio but the fans makes me sometimes doubt. We have similar problems in Sweden with a few clubs, perhaps not so much outspoken as in Curva Nord. But the problem is everywhere around us.

This is a very important problem that has to be crushed.
Unfortunately I do not have the solution. All I can do is to try to be a good person myself - I wish everyone could.

 

Racists Lazio fans make me wanna barf!

 

Life's to short to care what bigots and racist f*ucks do.
They're all gonna have their one way ticket to hell soon enough, so let the higher power deal them the bigger punsihment.

Cragnotti doesn't have the balls to do anything meaningful against the racist Laziali, and in all honesty it's more of a majority of fans than a minority. As far as i know Roma don't have these problems to such a scale.

What you people have to accept is Lazio will always be affiliated and associated with racism, bigotry and right wing Ultras. It will always be a racist club and if you Lazio fans here are willing to support them despite this then who are you to judge anyone?

 

Malcolm... Roma is the "foreigners", if you look at it that way. Lazio are racist from the one and only reason (that Feyenoord share as well)... - Their rivals are Jews!
We both know that the rivalry between Lazio and Roma is very very bitter, and the Lazio fans had maximized it.

I gave the example of Feyenoord - Only doing it because Ajax are calling themselvs jews.


This is the one and only reason for Lazio and Feyenoord to be racist clubs.

 

Roma has several black players and a Japanese player while Lazio does not have any black players or Asian players, I could never be a fan of a team that hates blacks and boos the black players of other teams when they play in the Olimpico. This is truly sad.

 

If Lazio is a racist and fascist club for the sole reason they hate Jews then why do the Laziali insult and boo coloured players?

----------------------------
i agree with you..that!s why i hate Lazio..they have some racist fans..i know that very well..
PS Laziali All The Way! are you a jewish ?if you are i have nothing to tell you..

 

High time to put things a bit in perspective....

Don't know how many times you people have been to Curva Nord, my guess is never, so let me assure you that the racist element there is getting smaller by the week! The Lazio management has done a lot to keep these extremists out of the stadium and they have done a good job under the circumstances. True, there are still racists there but this is no different from just about any other football team in Europe. Lazio has a bad name, I think mainly because of the initials 'SS' in our name and our logo which resembles the Nazi eagle. This could also be the reason Lazio attrackts so many fascists. But I believe the majority of fans that shout these racist remarks do so only with the intent to insult and not with the intent to be racist. I've often talked to these kids and found out most of them do not have a extreme-right political conviction or a racist ideaology. They are just intend on insulting players from the opposite team. To them its no different to shout a racists remark than it is to shout "stupid moron". So they are misguided at most.

Also the copy-cat effect comes into play. If they see such remarks being made all over the stadium they're gonna think its okay to do so because everyone else is doing it as well. If you're having a drink with them in a bar afterward they wouldn't dream of saying the things they say in the stadium. It's like a mass hysteria. And of course in such a huge crowd they are virtually anonymous so they feel safe to say whatever they want.

So I feel that if Lazio wants to get rid of racism they should try to educate these fans. LATW mentioned Feyenoord and that club had a problem in the past simular to what Lazio is having now. Feyenoord used video surveilance and worked with the police to single out and arrest those fans making racist remarks and forced them to go through a special education program wich thought them about the effect their remarks can have on people. This worked very well and today racism is no longer a problem for Feyenoord. As a matter of fact during the last CL it was Feyenoord players who sufferd from racist remarks when they played Lazio in Olimpico. That is how much things can turn around! It happend for Feyenoord, now lets see it happening for Lazio!!

 

Yeah racist Laziali in some special education program, get real man it's not gonna happen in Rome. At Feynoord it was a considrably less amount of people than at Lazio currently.
Some people just say all the boos and racist chants come from the Curva Nord but it's quite obvious it's from all around the stade Olimpico.

And just to set something straight: If a person shouts racist remarks I really don't give a damn if they intend to just insult the oppostion or actually be racist it's the same thing. Don't try to make excuses for them by saying they don't "intend" to be racist but instead just to provoke players because that's bullcrap. If someone does the action of racist insults then they should be held accountable regardless of what they're supposed "intensions" are.

 

Considrably less you say? No so! I've been to many Feyenoord matches during their 'racist period' (about '85 to '95) and maybe there were even more than at Lazio today!

And I'm not making excuses for anyone, I'm just telling you what it's like at Olimpico and Curva Nord. If you want to go on believing that these people are evil monsters, by all means do so. Just thought you might be interested in a first hand account of what it's really like there.

As far as 'intend' goes.... I had that discussion with Glen many times in the past. I feel it does make a difference. I feel a lot 'better' (or I should say a lot less worse) knowing that the majority of these people shouting such remarks are not real racists.

 

I found some of these articles offending themselves. They accuse Lazio of being racist and then they use racism in their articles themselves.

KING_11 What do u mean i use racism in the article?, are you accusing me of being racist to Lazio club? thats absurd!, i guess u didnt read the post well, the point of the post is to shed light on extremists and fascist fans that are hurting the image of lazio, and usually in any kind of writting the author ends it with his opinion, and my opinion about all of this is what i quoted from Cragnotti and Eriksson.

U seem to be ignoring the fact that we have this problem and accusing me of being racist in what i wrote, rather then being logical and unbaised in representing a rightfull discussion and reply.


Malcolm_Z, what i presume Boyo is trying to say that there is a difference between the fans. There are those who are fascists and extremists, and those who just what to insult the player with rascist remarks, nevertheless i agree with you that they wont differ when they will be all chanting these remarks, but they will differ outside the club with their activities and in what they represent as lazio fans.




[Edited by azur on 11-12-2000 at 03:27]

 

I don't think they're evil monsters, i think they're worse than that. Atleast evil monsters are colour blind.

And about your first person account, it seems quite remarkable to me how you always seem to be in the right place for an analgy. Quite a coincindence you've been to Feynoord matches and Lazio matches, eh? Always it the right place at the right time or so it seems...

And for me it's plain and simple, if you're not a quote 'real' racist unqoute then don't shout racist remarks. If you do that then it doesn't matter if you're a 'real' or 'fake' racist. When a person shouts racist chants time and time again then you're a racist. Not that hard to understand, is it now?

 

This kind of behaivour really makes me sick.
I know I should not be ashamed of the club a love,but everytime I say I like Lazio,people say Lazio are racist.
The message is very clear,Lazio have a bad reputation around the world and and if you say you are laziali then you can be considered a riscist.That's how big the extents of these pigs actions are.There is no point is making excuses for them,there is no excuse,if you follow an idea with out even knowing about what it stands for then you are just plain stupid.

When I read the idea about selling Mihajlovic I think it's a good idea.Of course I am going to get attacked for this,but these kind of actions must be taken.I know the solution is not to sell one player,but if this particular player cheers the rascist fans then I just cannot respect him.This will really teach a lesson to the racist fans and to Miha.
Something has to be done,and Cragnotti is the one person that has the power to make a diference.


"Lazio italian champions,the victory of the white race"
That kind of comments just really piss me off

 

Malcolm, that's unfair towards most of the Lazio fans to say that the most of the Stadio Olimpico joined the Curva Nord idiots in booeing black players, and if you have stated this without even having put a foot in the Olimpico or know how things are, please don't send people to the death penalty without making sure they are innocent or guilt.

It's stupid to deny that Lazio have a problem with racist fans, that really bugs me and could harm Lazio's future in the élite of European football. So, it's a moral must for evryone at Lazio (club, players, fans) to make a clean sweep of those idiots for the sake of our beloved club. it has also to be said that Lazio have been the most exposed team regarding racism in football, thanks mainly to the English football web sites that have hammered Lazio for weeks after Lazio-Arsenal, forgetting the treatment Paulo Wanchope suffers evry week from ENGLISH racists. And Malcolm, the fans who have booed Emil Heskey at the Stadio delle Alpi, the fans who have kicked and punched a defenceless Moroccan person at the Stadio delle Alpi, they are fans of Juventus or Lazio? The Fiorentina fans who have booed Oliveira and Wome, no one talks about them, because the scapegoat are Lazio fans. If you saw Lazio-Bologna, you would have noticed that evry time the idiots started booeing Bologna's black players, ALL the other Lazio fans at the Stadio Olimpico whistled at the idiots, and the whistles overwhelmed the booes.

Malcolm, there's a saying down here that could be translated like this: "before slamming a person for having a spot on his shirt, make sure your shirt is not dirty".

FORZA LAZIO

 

Aquila, i'm not saying Lazio are the only club with racist supporters. I realize most major clubs have their undesirable contingency. But Lazio have built they're name on fascist foundations. Why don't they do somthing about the picture of Moussilini on their grounds? Do you honestly think they really want to shed their fascist and racist image? If they really did they wouldn't have an Arkan supporter as a player in their squad.

You talk about incidents at that the Delle Alphi but are they not it the past? Do you hear of such thing happening like that now? Were they ever as bad as in the Stade Olimpico? Are these incidents not few and far between in the North? Do any other clubs in Italy have the same problem Lazio have now to this scale? No. As far as i'm concerned my black & white shirt is quite spotless as it is.

 

It is obvious that everyone here are frustrated about the racist problems among Lazio's "fans", but it is very hard to do something about it. Most of the people writing in this forum are hundereds, even thousands of miles away and if I was closer to Italy I would try to do something about it. But it is very hard to do something through the Internet. We all have our reasons to love Lazio and I am confident that there is no one here sharing the stupid racist tendencies a few idiots keeps expressing at the Lazio games.

LATW:I think jews are feeling a bit too followed sometimes. You can't see on a football player what his religion is. I think the racists mostly see the skin colour. But it is still very wrong and all kinds of racism disgusts me.

Fabulous post azur. Keep up the good work!

 

Bull, Malcolm! "Lazio have built their name on fascist foundations". You don't really belive that your self, do you?

 

Malcolm, I will tell you again. Please, don't speak about things you don't know. The north of Italy is the most racist part of Italy, have you ever heard of the infamous North League? If you speak without knowing things, you give others the impression that your statements come out of mere prejudice, which is even worse than ignorance.

Emil Heskey was booed at the Stadio delle Alpi a month (not a millennium) ago when Italy played England, while the poor Moroccan man was cowardly beaten by some Fighters (Juventus Ultras) during Juventus-Lazio, few days before Italy-England. Nice to see that Juve fans gave Lazio ones some lessons in how to behave.

And your comments about Lazio building their name on fascist foundations and Lazio buying Mihajlovic just because he's an Arkan supporter deserve no comment.

FORZA LAZIO



[Edited by aquila on 11-12-2000 at 14:21]

 

Why would i be prejudice? Lazio are just another club to me.
I don't hate them as a whole but more the elements that are involved with them. What i really think is bad is they misrepresent Italy.

Anyways, Aquila you seem to be taking my posts personally so i'll back off for a while. I think we look at Lazio at two very different angles. I respect your opinion even if i may not agree with you and i hope you do the same. You probably do know more about Lazio than me. But rest assure i'm not some dumbass who judges without knowing. I've been to Rome and the region where Lazio are. And you have to admit the neo nazi have a strong presence there.

Ciao.

 

One more thing: You keep on referring to this Italy-England friendly, now i didn't watch the match but how do you know that the people allegedly booing Heskey were Juve Ultras? Just because it was played in Turin doen't mean it couldn't have been some group of travelling 'fans'. And about this Moroccan guy that was beaten up, i didn't hear of this incident so i can't comment on it.

Aquila, now you're putting things in my mouth I never said Lazio bought Mihajlovic just because he was an Arkan supporter. I said if Lazio were really keen to cracking down on this racist element they would'nt have someone like Mihajlovic in the first place.