I hate the Cassandras.

 

And Most famous stars haven't choosen Serie-A. Ibrahimovic, Kaka... they are all that rising stars chose playing in Serie-A. Figo, Solari? they are old. And Samuel? he just failed to make impact at La Liga. Of course, I know Serie-A has the most toughest rule for foreign players. But it is not a serious problem.

I agree that the top 3 got alot of power and will probably be the one's fighting over the title again, but I disagree with the part I quoted.

Most famous stars don't chose Serie A? Like who?. Thing is, many Italian clubs don't have that much money like in the late 90's early 00's and therefore many good players go to other leagues now too, but our top clubs can still attract any player and I'm certain of that most good players still dream of Italian football. Players just go where the money is. That is the truth.

 

I hate the Cassandras.

But as far as Serie A is concerned, they have a point. Not only the so-called 7 sisters have become 3, but the whole transfer system and the way it works will NEVER allow any other team to go among them. Just look how many loaned and co-owned players move every summer... there is no stability, there is no money.

In my opinion, putting a quota on loaned and co-owned players would improve Serie A by a big margin.

 

Not only the so-called 7 sisters have become 3, but the whole transfer system and the way it works will NEVER allow any other team to go among them. Just look how many loaned and co-owned players move every summer... there is no stability, there is no money.

Sometimes I wonder whether the people have understood what happened during the seven sisters time.

 

I do, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that a club with a solid financial basis and correct planning can never hope for anything more than 4th-5th position with Milan, Inter or Juventus taking their best players away next summer. The 7 sisters thing was basically a financial scam, but this is still a league with HUGE gaps that can NEVER, EVER be filled under the current conditions. Every other big league has "biggish" clubs. Serie A has 3 enormous clubs that control everything and that's it.

 

This is the effect of Sky & Co. They have created the gap.

 

Fans who like the big 3 teams always talk about calciomercato.
But Torino, Messina & etc fans talked about live or die in these days.
It's so ridiculous.

 

At least it's not as bad as the EPL. Sadly this seems to be happening to all big leagues.

 

I'm all for everyone getting an equal shot but unless a huge Investor or billionaire comes along and buys a Lazio or Udinese etc then what else do you expect?the big 3 also have their histories and in regards to that most players dream of playing for them.
I've countless times expressed my sadness at how the historical clubs like Torino,Genoa and Napoli have suffered but what can you do?

 

Hajduk Hrvatska, I agree with you a little. Some EPL teams are too weaker than other teams. It is not difficult to see that score, 4-0 at their league. But It is certain that even their weak clubs have much more money than Serie-A's. Some Serie-A clubs just depend on players on loan.
Bandiera, I agree with you that this climate would not be changed if a huge investor doesn't come to italy.
But the real problem is that most serie-a clubs can't make profits from calcio. Most clubs just depend on their presidents.

 

I do, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that a club with a solid financial basis and correct planning can never hope for anything more than 4th-5th position with Milan, Inter or Juventus taking their best players away next summer. The 7 sisters thing was basically a financial scam, but this is still a league with HUGE gaps that can NEVER, EVER be filled under the current conditions. Every other big league has "biggish" clubs. Serie A has 3 enormous clubs that control everything and that's it.

But Inter never win anything. :howler:

 

I'm all for everyone getting an equal shot but unless a huge Investor or billionaire comes along and buys a Lazio or Udinese etc

Even this is unlikely. Why would anyone put their money into a club like this? What for? To claim the fourth Champions League place?

It is true that it is happening in most leagues but as Serie A is the league I watch the most, I'll just comment on that,

I've always found it fishy that Juventus have the absolute MONOPOLY on young Italian players, they're all owned or part owned by them, and yet they never really challenge Milan in the transfer market for players abroad.

What seems different about Italy is that there seems arrangements, pacts even between the big teams.

I'd love a bitch fight between the top three over Cassano to prove me wrong.

Ideally though Cassano stays where he is, everyone kisses and makes up and Roma challenge.

 

I feel Serie-A is falling down. Big three teams have too much power now. They have strengthen their squad more again. Even Totti admits they are much better than any other teams although he insist Roma can win Scudetto. I never think Roma can win Scudetto at this season. Even it would not be easy to reach the CL spot for Roma.

Even Maradona said like this. “Italian football has changed from my day, as now the big three teams have an incredible power over the others. Someone can still push their way into the race, but I doubt we can see a side like my Napoli that can come out of nowhere to win the title.”

And Most famous stars haven't choosen Serie-A. Ibrahimovic, Kaka... they are all that rising stars chose playing in Serie-A. Figo, Solari? they are old. And Samuel? he just failed to make impact at La Liga. Of course, I know Serie-A has the most toughest rule for foreign players. But it is not a serious problem.

Fiorentina & Palermo have used much transfer money...but it can't be compared to spending of big three teams. And Serie-A's attendance has decreased and most stadiums are not good to watch. And most teams can't make profit from Calcio. I really feel Serie-A need an evolution or revolution.

Vieira ??

rising stars ? falling stars ?

then who are the 'stars' ?

IMO, this has been on the transfer front, Serie A's best summer in years.
Competition between the big three to one-up each other is causing other 'stars' to come to calcio.

 

Serie A is in much better shape now than for 2-3 years ago. Palermo, Sampdoria, Fiorentina and Udinese are all doing relatively well on the transfer market. And personally I'm intrigued over this Sanz-deal. As any fan would be when their club get a new owner...

The leap up to the big three is too large though. It could be made smaller if they banned loans within the same division but as that is a way for the big three to keep control of the talents they won't change it. Why would they want to pay top dollars for finished top players when they can buy 5 talented players and loan them out and still pay way less than for one top player?

 

Serie A is in much better shape now than for 2-3 years ago. Palermo, Sampdoria, Fiorentina and Udinese are all doing relatively well on the transfer market. And personally I'm intrigued over this Sanz-deal. As any fan would be when their club get a new owner...

The leap up to the big three is too large though. It could be made smaller if they banned loans within the same division but as that is a way for the big three to keep control of the talents they won't change it. Why would they want to pay top dollars for finished top players when they can buy 5 talented players and loan them out and still pay way less than for one top player?

The ban of the loans is an useless palliative. The solution is a more proportionate share of the money coming from Sky & Co. Unfortunately the three big clubs (and in particular two of them) have the control of the situation and will never concede anything which could weaken them and strengthen the opponents.

 

Serie A is in much better shape now than for 2-3 years ago. Palermo, Sampdoria, Fiorentina and Udinese are all doing relatively well on the transfer market. And personally I'm intrigued over this Sanz-deal. As any fan would be when their club get a new owner...
QUOTE]

Erm, no. Samp have spent 0 Euros this year. That's right, zero. Yes, we've got some half descent players for that, but a) half of them are on loan from AC Milan and b) we didn't spend anything not cos we think that Del Vecchio, Zauli, Zamboni, etc are great players who we were desperate to get, but cos we have no money to spend and they're the best we could get. Is that a sign that serie A is in a good shape? We came 5th for f**k's sake, not 20th, and the vast majority of clubs beneath us are exactly the same.

What Italian football needs is a big renogotiation for the TV rights Premierleague style (which is 50% divided equally, 25% based on viewer ratings, and 25% based on league position, not the best but miles better than what we've got), and we need some rules to stop Milan, Juve, and Inter from buying everyone for the hell of it.

Personally, I'd totally get rid of half-sharing for a start, but Italians seem to love those for some reason. Otherwise, maybe a law limiting the number of player you can loan out, or maybe saying that you can't loan or sell someone in the first year after you'd buy them, I dunno. Something that means clubs have to think long and hard before buyuing someone rather than saying "We may as well, and if he's shit we'll just loan him for a bit" and you end up with all these players wandering about serie A and serie B for ages and medium to small clubs having to change half their squads every year.

 

Vieira ??

I forgot to mention him. But he is a Juve player too. gogol, I'm a laziale like you. But all teams except of the big 3 teams just have strengthen their squad as buying some youngsters from Serie-B not buying from foreign countries. Maybe players who experienced Serie-B could play well at Serie-A than others. But you know the reason is that most teams don't have money.

bogliaschino, I agree with your opinion about tv rights. But some rules to limit calciomercato is unfair.

 

bogliaschino, I agree with your opinion about tv rights. But some rules to limit calciomercato is unfair.

Unfair to the big three maybe..

I really don't see what the problem is - comprioprieta' only exist in Italy or South America (where dodgy agents own part of players) and just seem complicated and pointless. While the idea that a smaller club can sell half a player to get some money but retain him for a bit is a good one, in practice they're mainly used by Juve and Milan to part-own half of serie A and B.

Just look at someone like Kutuzov - AC do not need him at all, yet they won't sell him to Samp just in case he has a great season and in a year or two they want him to be their 4th or 5th striker. If they couldn't do that, then they'd have to decide - do we want him or don't we? It adds some risk for the big sides, who at the moment can just buy people and keep them for ages - if they ever become good, great, if not, who cares? It's a real waste of talent (eg Brighi, Donati, etc) and means smaller teams just can't build for the long-term.

As for limiting loans, various countries already have some limits on it (eg in England you can't loan in more than 5 players I think) and I also thought that in some places you can't loan players to a team in the same division, so what's the problem of putting some limits in? We have limits on non-EU players so why the hell not for loan players?

Something does need to be done so that big teams have to actually really think about who they want, at the moment it's just far too easy for them - they can just buy people they don't need and keep them for ages. If they ever become good, great, if not, who cares? It's a real waste of talent (eg Brighi, Donati, etc) and means smaller teams just can't build for the long-term.

 

Read this first!

Sorry, I moved bits of the 3rd paragraph to the last paragraph in my last post, but forgot to delete them the first time!

 

The solution is a more proportionate share of the money coming from Sky & Co. Unfortunately the three big clubs (and in particular two of them) have the control of the situation and will never concede anything which could weaken them and strengthen the opponents.

I have to agree about the money from TV but limiting the number of loaned out and the overall amount of players in a single team would also have a positive effect.

 

Squad caps, loan caps and these silly part ownerships should be the first to go.

First thing's first, teams need to start owning players outright. If there is no room at Juve or Milan, then that player should play for someone else and owned by somebody else and if Juve or Milan want him, they have to pay for it.

The situation at the moment undermines the whole idea of competition.

The more equal sharing of the TV money seems a little utopian at the moment, given that Juve, Milan and Inter draw the larger tv audiences.

In essence, the first issue HAS to change.

The second issue,the TV money, is for me at the "it would be nice if...." stage.

 

I agree with the money from TV as well as limiting the number of players being loaned out. At the moment it seems that the big 3 are "owning" more than 1 team each.

But things won't change I'm sure. The fans of the 3 big teams will call us cry babies while we will feel that the current situation is unfair to all other teams. Unless there's a change at the top, there's no way they will make changes that will improve the smaller teams and reduce the strength of the big 3.

 

Fans who like the big 3 teams always talk about calciomercato.
But Torino, Messina & etc fans talked about live or die in these days.
It's so ridiculous.

I've countless times expressed my sadness at how the historical clubs like Torino,Genoa and Napoli have suffered but what can you do?

Other teams are at the Three's mercy. They play the part of potential surprises that only illude ppl with the idea an outsider can win. They are the supply bags for bigger, mightier teams. And they're the first to die when the hungry shepherd checks his goats, in the times when platters are meagre and the big ones want to eat more.

There is nothing we can do. For those who are happy to live, dying is too big a shock, too sad a word. Serie A may create its own soccer league and play in three, just like the first championships, in one day tournaments. I call myself out of such cynism, thank you very much.

 

The more equal sharing of the TV money seems a little utopian at the moment, given that Juve, Milan and Inter draw the larger tv audiences.

The second issue,the TV money, is for me at the "it would be nice if...." stage.

Why? Just cause they urged the government to change the law! The TV rights to RAI were shared in equal parts for years no matter what the proportions of the supporters were! Now the cow to milk is much bigger so a law was introduced which gave the possibility to a club to discuss the contract with TV separately. This is the point!

 

I forgot to mention him. But he is a Juve player too. gogol, I'm a laziale like you. But all teams except of the big 3 teams just have strengthen their squad as buying some youngsters from Serie-B not buying from foreign countries. Maybe players who experienced Serie-B could play well at Serie-A than others. But you know the reason is that most teams don't have money.

bogliaschino, I agree with your opinion about tv rights. But some rules to limit calciomercato is unfair.

mate, I’m just saying that a weak Milan or Juve is not good for Italian football. When we had the romans winning the scudettos 5 years or so ago, we (Italy) stunk it up in Europe.
By your philosophy, France’s Ligue 1 should be the best league in the world. And it not, I’ve seen it.
May I remind you that Serie A was judged as the most competitive league in the world last year. Many of things you are referring to are ‘problems of italian football’ e.g. the Toro and Napoli case, and not ‘problems of Serie A’. There’s a difference.

And Toni, you talk ‘bout Sky. So are you saying these problems didn’t exist before 2004? I hate people making generalizations on everything. By your analysis, Roma should be competing with the big three coz they got a tv deal which was close to Milan and Juve and matched Inter’s. But they are not doing so. I agree about more even tv deals for all clubs. But then, Milan and Juve are not ‘clubs’. They are organizations. Gigantic.

Whenever, there seems to be a problem (financial or otherwise) with clubs, we try to find solutions by accusing clubs that are not facing these problems.
IMO, in today’s calcio world, you have to be smart.
Don’t hate the player folks, hate the game!