Link to this. Havent heard abouth this 5th place rule involving historical pedigree.

 

4th place rule,and 2nd place rule

i read about it in a portuguese newspaper,quoting a spanish one,wil link u to both,the spanish one is more complete,there may be something in another language but these were the ones i came accross

according to them this is being agreed between UEFA and ECA,for the 2018/2019 season already

lets see what the next UEFA boss decides upon


Expresso | Acabou a Liga dos Campeões para todos


La super Champions que viene

 

why do a qualification in the first place. make a league of the same 16 teams out of it and let them play the whole season 30 games. they can send a be team to the domestic leagues then, if they even care about it, that is

the rest of europe can play proper eurocups

 

There is only one solution to this dominance: Salary cap. Copy American sports like the NFL.

 

Salary cap is anti-EU law I think

Though its funny the anti-socialist Americans push the salary cap in all sports but baseball, but even in baseball they are starting to pursue it a bit with the luxury tax (the more you spend, the more you pay tax which is redistributed in the league) :howler:

 

One English version

New-look Champions League a real possibility - GazzettaWorld

Something like has been the dream of some of the rich owners, something similar was floated by Berlusconi many many years ago, that big club group (called G-14 at some point) with Bayern and others leading the charge for such changes. It goes without saying it makes the rich richer and has no footballing merit (to use their own word lol)

 

yes i recall that G14 club proposal :facepalm: now something fairly similar seems to be in the making

ps.thanks for the english version

 

I am trying to phrase it neutral:
It is a question of what the majority of people would prefer to watch. Because that brings money and money keeps everything rolling.

I personally would always prefer to watch a match of let's say Stoke against let's say Atalanta in a European competition over the Russian champion vs the Czech champion. And I honestly have no doubt which match would have better quality. But that's just me, I don't expect people to agree.

However if more people would agree than disagree world-wide it would be a logical consequence to shift it more and more into such a direction. And in that case also not something that is really debatable - except by a minority.

 

On the topic of cap being socialist. The people who want it are those whose profits get hit most without the cap, the team owners. Many of them are billionaires. It is a self serving issue more than anything socialist or not and that is exactly why it exists in US sports. I won't say more because this thread will then be a basement thread

On the topic of quality of football on offer, in any system, the more teams involved the chances of lower quality games is higher. That is the way it is going to be because with any CL system or any thing really, wealth tends to concentrate. From a pure definition perspective any thing more than 1 team (each country's champion) is already 'wrong'

 

Was gonna say what you said in your first paragraph: the salary caps are actually to maximize owner profits. But the corollary for the fans is that it makes the leagues more exciting because the teams are more equal in quality. In the American leagues, winning a championship is almost meaningless these days, because they are almost always won by teams who were the shittiest a few years ago. On the other extreme however you have football where one needs not watch any league games to know who will finish top 3 (except last year in EPL) and same is coming to be true in CL: there is very little competition from the top 2nd tier teams like Arsenal, Inter, Roma, etc.

As for a real champion's cup, it would be good to see winners of each country in the CL, like bulgaria, romania, etc, because those teams are most likely well organized and have good team spirit. But it can't be only this or else the CL will be like the Fifa club world cup which is a walk in the park for the UEFA team if the latter cares about the competition.

 

It should be only champions qualify for the champions league like it used to be. One of the best teams i ever saw was the Ajax teams in the 90's. You won't see clubs like Ajax or Redstar another great team win the champions league ever again. Money has destroyed the sport in the smaller countries.

 

This is a good point I had not considered: the champions format injects a lot of money into these smaller country teams, and that is a good thing for the diversity of football. Football just seems like mercenaries competing for money and glory now, rather than heart and country.

 

Probably, but money has also increased the quality of the sport by far overall. You can't have both I guess.

 

I'm with Tiger on this one. The UCL isn't predictable at all. At least Real isn't winning it every year like it used too.

 

Drugs are bad, buddy.

 

In the big picture of things, it is extremely restricted to a few clubs who are in contendership. You just know that the semi's will be made of the teams who spent at least 80 mil in their transfer markets. Atletico is one exception and there is definitely some justice in Man City never making it, but overall, you can't convince many fans of important European clubs that they have a shot at the CL.

 

Currently there are people even complaining about the '2 routes' CL qualifying system, which in their opinion is unfair to rich clubs (or clubs from rich leagues). They say: why one of Porto or Roma will be out and one of Dundalk or Legia will be in?
They don't understand it. But most of them are 15-20 years old, and this is the football they've seen all their lives.

Then you have Spain with 5 teams in CL and decent footballing countries like Poland or Serbia have to pray to qualify one team every 7-8 years. But the '2 routes' system is very unfair

 

It shouldn't be that hard to create a balanced system for European competition that respects the current strongest leagues while creating a setup that allows the 2nd and 3rd tier to do well if they can put together teams good enough, or to eventually build stronger leagues for the countries that do potentially have the resources\population for that.

But the richest and those in the strongest current positions will always look for ways to pull the ladder up behind themselves, shore up the barricades and make things as tough as possible for new powers to emerge or more even ground for the underdog to fight on.It's the nature of things.

And not just in terms of top 3\4 leagues or G-14 vs the rest either...teams like Celtic, Ajax, Porto, Zenit, PSG and other current 2nd and 3rd tier league dominators wouldn't be wanting domestic change that might encourage more balanced competition either.

 

The last 'real' Champion League season was when Porto won it in 2004

seriously who ever thought that the end of the Iron Curtain would make football into a corporate snooze-fest without any passion like it is today?

ps: special mention to Dynamo Kiev who looked like they were in a position to win the whole thing in 1999 but went out in the Semi-Finals

 

Yes, I also don't like how European football is these days. There should be more equality. Big teams of the big leagues are way too greedy in my opinion. Of course, they have the most money and can afford the best players and therefore play the best football but it isn't exactly fair to the other clubs who are also part of UEFA. They focus too much on the commercial benefits but forgot what it should really be about. The rich get richer and the poor get even more poor. For me it's boring to see 4 English teams, 4 Spanish teams etc. I'm Dutch and I like to watch Dutch teams competing in the CL but as it goes now even our champion will not be qualified directly for it very soon. It makes sense because we just can't compete anymore. And that goes for a lot of teams outside of the big 5 leagues.

 

Then work on getting better instead of complain about something that is also in the hands of the clubs themselves. I am sure when Ajax won the CL there were a lot of clubs complaining about the talent they gathered (on the expense of at least the other dutch clubs of course)...

 

So Tiger's a Republican and DutchLion feels the Bern.

 

Wtf is this Pedigree rule?

I wonder if Valencia could qualify this way.

I sure do hope so.

 

lol

 

You finished 12th last season.

Seems more like a case of last season Man City 4th, Man Utd 5th. Man utd has won 3 CLs, City has won 0. So Man Utd edges City out for this crappy rule.

Could be a Arsenal finish 4th but Pool finish 5th and advance to CL instead this season.

 

the champions league should be made of champions only,and those are clubs that have won their domestic leagues,full stop

eventually letting the former CL champion in too

thne another league be made with the other teams....the uefa cup...whats so complicated about this? and why did they kill the Cup Winners Cup too?


the system with those 3 cups wasnt just balanced,it was competitive, and fair ,in terms of sports "justice"


if uefa wants to give money to rich clubs and to tv and the agents,it still can...just spread it amongst those 3 competitions.....richer clubs will still get richer and still be able to buy the best players and win the most trophies,but it wont be a system this unbalanced, one who pretty much has killed historically succesfull clubs all over EE, and is killing thme in western europe too

the reason why its less and less interesting watching footy these days is becoz its more and more a competition between the rich and the rest, the element of surprise is gone, which makes it lose interest

in china or india for example it may be "normal" to pick a european shark like real madrid to support,but in europeno....in most countries we pick a club from our country....its unthinkable for a portuguese or a belgian,or a dutch or a greek to support RM...u support your own countries team...and this was so in EE too and other countries nowadays just looking at XT we see how so many people ( specially younger guys) are starting to support those sharks over their own country clubs...is this what we want?


football is diversity,that is what makes it interesting, and this CL system only served to increase salary cap of players, make agents rich, and help a lot of criminals laundry their money

instead of correcting the wrong made, uefa seems to be moving towards anihilating the rest of the surviving clubs / leagues

 

It sounds like something "traditional" is automatically better just because it used to be something when you were younger. And when exactly starts and stops "tradition"? Everything before CL is good and everything since is bad? How about asking much older people, they might consider all the UEFA competitions bad because things were different before they were invented. It's not like that invention hasn't changed the football landscape too.

To me there is nothing that stops clubs from winning except themselves. Yes, you won't win something overnight, but it shouldn't be like that anyway. Do awesome work for 20 or 30 years and you can bring a club from bottom to top, including top European level. Enough surprises out there every year anyway even without such long time good work.

It took about Atletico about 5 years to go from a mediocre Spanish side to a European top team. It took Leicester 1 year from shit to English champions. And I could bring at least 10 more examples like that from the last 5-10 years. If you want more you don't want hard work to be rewarded, just throw a coin to decide football games then.

 

Dortmund too.

They were a standard German mid-table team for years, and just like that won back to back Bundesligas and reached a CL final.

 

and in the meantime the rich clubs can still rest quietly competing amongst themselves tiger,with less and less competition, its nice isnt it

it's so pretty to say work and result will come when the set up is unequal from the start.....the way the system is set and organized,and was set 20 years ago,it only benefits rich clubs, and the results are there to show u it is so....its always the same who can afford to buy the best,its a cycle, like GB said,the last "outsider" was porto 12 years ago......this pedigree thing will only make sure the system is enforced

even at domestic leagues level it undermines competition...
i'll just take the portuguese league,so u see how unbiased i am in this discussion....that pedigree thing favours Benfica and Porto,and yet i disagree with it ...why would Braga or Sporting be not allowed to make it to CL if they make it 2nd place?

as for the balance of the league...would increase if league europa clubs would get a share of the $ too...

 

That pedigree thing is something that is not even in effect. And apart from this thread I never read about it anywhere else. So for the time being I will consider it a myth.

Apart from that (which would be ridiculous as it has nothing to do with qualification anymore) I disagree. Bayern before the 1970s was quite a nobody in Germany, let alone Europe. Do they qualify as tradional big or not? This is all very subjective.

As for the CL. You say Porto in 2004, I will say Inter in 2010. And no, I am not taking a piss at Inter here, but just look at their "tradition". Hadn't won it since 1965 and we all know the 60s and before hardly have much to do with football as we know it since. They are definitely not a traditional big "champions cup" side, neither CL nor European Cup.

Atletico missed out twice almost in the last second, the same would have applied to them. Speaking of traditional in terms of that competition that word does not apply for Chelsea either. And all those clubs are just me talking about this decade alone...

It might not be equal chance for every club but it is possible. And just to say this one VERY clear, it has NEVER ever been equal for every club, not even the very first two football clubs that have existed.

 

Basically denying anything resembling equality exists or should be possible, so earlier in the Fird called you republican was even more accurate

Since Leicester's name has come in this thread up all should realize that EPL riches, money, made them an attractive target for take over, it was money that did it and the money people chose Ranieri too. If anything one shouldn't use Leicester to prove any of this discussion's 'others can win too'. Even if you want to count Porto and Atletico as that then where does anybody say the rich club can not occasionally add a new member, just as it can subtract members, current Milan has less money to spend than Newcastle, recently relegated.

 

lol.

Love that pic.