since most of us don't live in madrid, i was wondering if those who are (or at least live near it) can tell me if anyone in madrid and in particular, the madrid media is calling against perez.
i mean, i read AS and marca (and my spanish is not very good), but the feeling i get is that no one has the balls to shout it in the face, give perez or the public the hard facts.
i mean, how come i dont see any headlines with "beckham is a terrible midfielder and off position".
how come don't write "zidan is tired and needs a good backup/replacement".
no one is writing "signing owen was a huge mistake", "zidan and pavons is a disaster to the club".... and so on.
i mean, is perez controlling the media also?

anyone have a clue why is this club acting like an ostrich and sticking his head in the sand hoping for all troubles just to pass by?

He is criticized and, from my point of view, he does not like it at all. For example, he's very mad with 2 of the journalists of Cadena Ser (who also write in AS) for it. It's true that no one has asked for his resignation.

The headlines use to support the team, but if you read the opinion columns, you find hard critics. Not only this year, also last season Beckham has been called "chaotic and unuselful player"; Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos have been constantly criticized for their lives out of the pitch, especially Ronaldo has been involved in many scandals for his famous "Birthday Party" and the sport press doesn't like it; Figo doesn't talk with several journalist since long ago, especially with Santiago Segurola, a famous journalist of El Pais and Cadena Ser; Samuel is constantly criticized; Zidane is more respected, perhas because he was the #1 galactico, but I've already heard voices that talk about his decadence in Madrid; and Owen... check out this:

http://www.as.com/articulo.html?xref=20041004dasdaiopi_5&type=Tes&anchor=dasopiA00

Galáctico de pacotilla. Está escrito por este periódico en el infausto 12 de agosto. Desde la editorial del director a las cartas de los lectores. El día de autos que el Madrid fichó a Owen, vendió a Etoo al Barça y perdió a Vieira es como si el club hubiese sufrido una triada, la lesión más temida por los futbolistas. Owen no es Henry. Owen no es Reyes. Owen no es Totti. Owen no es Drogba. Owen no es Adriano. Owen no es Figo. Owen no es Raúl. Owen no es Zidane. Vamos, que Owen no es galáctico. Que no cuela. Que ni 12 ni tres millones de euros. Que Rafa Benítez lo celebró con champán el día que nos lo endosó. Que no, que no. Que Owen no aporta nada a la causa, le ha quitado minutos e ilusión a Morientes y ahí está el cruel castigo del destino. Cuatro goles en seis jornadas. El peor registro de la historia. Hasta el Madrid de Julio Suárez (un delantero con bigote, hermano de Pepe Juan, que llegó de Las Palmas y costó 50 millones en 1983) era más letal en ataque. No es cuestión de nombres. Sino de potencia, verticalidad, empeño, ilusión, hambre y poderío. Se salvan Raúl, Figo, Beckham, Helguera o Salgado, que se dejan la vida en el empeño. Pero la orquesta desafina porque los trombones (Samuel y Roberto Carlos) y algunos violines (Zidane y Owen) siguen de excedencia.

Pavón & Samuel. Presi, ojalá no hubieses leído los periódicos o escuchado las radios. Fichar centrales es como reinstaurar la Ley Seca. Samuel es diez veces más torpe y más violento que Pavón. Rectifica, please. Con Zidanes y Pavones vivíamos mejor. Tranquilos. Falta Woodgate...

Roncero (very known for all of us for his harcore madridismo) criticizes the fact of selling Etoo, buying Owen and losing Vieira in the same day. Then he makes a huge critic towards Owen, but at the same time towards Florentino, saying that he could have bought him for 12 or 3 millions, but Owen is not "galactico". He finishes saving the attitude of Raul, Helguera, Beckham, Figo and Salgado and criticizing Samuel, Roberto Carlos, Zidane and Owen.

He finishes the article says "Samuel is ten times more clumsy and violent than Pavon" and he also said "With Pavones we lived better".

Perhaps last year, press was more critical with Queiroz. Perez got also words against him, especially for his decission about Del Bosque (which I think that it's the root of the problem, IMO). But this year, Queiroz is not in the squad. I feel disappointment in the press for Eto'o's signing for Barça, they don't blame Florentino for this fact, but for not taking profit of him before. Owen never created the illussion that the 4 previous "galacticos" did. Woodgate can be very good, but I can tell you that the 95% of the socios of Real Madrid have never seen this guy playing in their lives...

The "Zidanes & Pavones" policy is not very criticized. Of course, now it has more critics, but many people still think that the goal is to have the best players of the world and home players.

Overall, Florentino is criticized, although I think that he is still respected for what he has done in the past. In any case, his image is not as virgin as 2 years ago, now some journalists say "Hey, Florentino, that's football. You've never been criticized, but now the past doesn't count, you better get used to hear booes in the Bernabeu, because all the presidents have passed for this situation".

 

He finishes the article says "Samuel is ten times more clumsy and violent than Pavon" and he also said "With Pavones we lived better".

This guy is supposed to be a top sports journalist in Spain? The horror, the horror...

 

LOL we will take Samuel if you don't want him

Such geniuses in Real, Who expect to solve all their problems by signing Walter Samuel.

 

I do not see the current squad achieveing any success this season, and I was frankly surprised at we showed some heart in beating Roma, Right now i do not think we will qualify from the group stage and if we do will than be shortly eliminated from europe.

La Liga we can not compete against teams and unless we have a turn around (unlikely) we just can not compete against the Valencias and barca.

Copa Del Rey may be our only saving grace but I wouldnt bet on it.

Stand down Perez!

 

I do not see the current squad achieveing any success this season, and I was frankly surprised at we showed some heart in beating Roma, Right now i do not think we will qualify from the group stage and if we do will than be shortly eliminated from europe.

La Liga we can not compete against teams and unless we have a turn around (unlikely) we just can not compete against the Valencias and barca.

Copa Del Rey may be our only saving grace but I wouldnt bet on it.

Stand down Perez!

Finally you have seen the light Gary ... finally.

 

Finally you have seen the light Gary ... finally.

Pre-season is always a time full of optimism and the season is full of reality.

you do the math :smileani:

 

If you had the Batman avatar I would've told Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara to sound for the Bat Signal :tongue:

I thought your opinion on Real's personnel was more on the optimistic side than the realistic side in the pre-season. Real will improve after the Winter break when their backs are against the wall and the players start to realize the repercussions of the boomerang effect but it won't be enough to win anything in the season.

 

If you had the Batman avatar I would've told Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara to sound for the Bat Signal :tongue:

I thought your opinion on Real's personnel was more on the optimistic side than the realistic side in the pre-season. Real will improve after the Winter break when their backs are against the wall and the players start to realize the repercussions of the boomerang effect but it won't be enough to win anything in the season.

not too confident about this season, the words of Zidane still ring in my ears from last years CL against Monaco. B nature I'm a very optimistic person but there is something on the inside of the club that is rotten. Players or management there is something wrong.

We can blame the midfield of back line or even Ronaldo but this squad is missing a heart and soul. A team divided can not stand and this is very apparent.

no the bat signal has been seen but no action, we need a revolution for change!

 

not too confident about this season, the words of Zidane still ring in my ears from last years CL against Monaco. B nature I'm a very optimistic person but there is something on the inside of the club that is rotten. Players or management there is something wrong.

We can blame the midfield of back line or even Ronaldo but this squad is missing a heart and soul. A team divided can not stand and this is very apparent.

no the bat signal has been seen but no action, we need a revolution for change!

I understand your perspective now. You need to clean house if you ask me. But who will do it? Too much debris in the house.

 

I'm not intending to discourage Real fans here, but seriously I think Real will face a very tough season in La Liga.

From my perspective, La Liga is a league which most of participating teams never really care about big names other clubs or rivals had. The only consideration here is whether a team can play better or not against other teams. I remember three years ago, there're 7-8 teams fighting for top table position and different teams top the table almost every jornadas, including Alaves and Celta Vigo. La Liga teams are always serious in beating their opponent and tends to give no mercy when you're really messed up no matter how good your reputation is (e.g. Louis van Gaal's Barça two seasons ago). What I mean is, your team is playing in the toughest league in Europe and your team must prepare for the worst because it could affect team spirit.

Just like Al Pacino said in one of his movies : you're building a 'rat ship' here. The problem is the foundation of the team itself, a big wrong policy from Perez. Barça also had similar problem in the past, but at least their young generations survived, while in current Real, your president seems to neglect the importance of develop new 'Pavones' as core of future team.

 

I understand your perspective now. You need to clean house if you ask me. But who will do it? Too much debris in the house.

Perez will not clean hose since this would only be seen as a failure of his policy, On one point I agree with Perez, that the best players must play at Real but only from a football point of view. We need a balance squad not made up of 2 different class players and in fact with more hard working players than the prima donna's.

We are stuck for the next 4 years unless the socios remove Perez or he comes to his senses.

We need a house cleaning and first to go is Perez.

 

I do not see the current squad achieveing any success this season, and I was frankly surprised at we showed some heart in beating Roma, Right now i do not think we will qualify from the group stage and if we do will than be shortly eliminated from europe.

La Liga we can not compete against teams and unless we have a turn around (unlikely) we just can not compete against the Valencias and barca.

Copa Del Rey may be our only saving grace but I wouldnt bet on it.

Stand down Perez!

It's too soon. Honestly, I don't see Real Madrid dead. 7 points in 6 matches is a lot, for sure, but La Liga is very long. I recall that RM had a similar advantage over Valencia 10/15 matches before the end. It was after the "penalty marchenero", Valencia lost 8 points of 9 matches and RM had a similar gap. You know the rest of the story.

Everything can change in 2 matches. If RM manage to stay 6/7 points far from Barça and Valencia and they can win in the Camp Nou in November, everything can change.

The same in Europe. The CL is a lottery. I don't think that Monaco and Porto were better than others.

It's true that RM don't look well sometimes and other times they're unlucky, like yesterday, but there is a long way to walk yet.

 

"Samuel is ten times more clumsy and violent than Pavon" and he also said "With Pavones we lived better".

What a ****ing moron.

 

We are stuck for the next 4 years unless the socios remove Perez or he comes to his senses.

We need a house cleaning and first to go is Perez.

i feel like the little boy who yelled "the king is naked..."

 

It's too soon. Honestly, I don't see Real Madrid dead. 7 points in 6 matches is a lot, for sure, but La Liga is very long. I recall that RM had a similar advantage over Valencia 10/15 matches before the end. It was after the "penalty marchenero", Valencia lost 8 points of 9 matches and RM had a similar gap. You know the rest of the story.

Everything can change in 2 matches. If RM manage to stay 6/7 points far from Barça and Valencia and they can win in the Camp Nou in November, everything can change.

The same in Europe. The CL is a lottery. I don't think that Monaco and Porto were better than others.

It's true that RM don't look well sometimes and other times they're unlucky, like yesterday, but there is a long way to walk yet.

I agree that time is on our side but there is something more to this, and mu guess is that it's an internal problem.

 

I agree that time is on our side but there is something more to this, and mu guess is that it's an internal problem.

Internal? What do you mean?

 

not too confident about this season, the words of Zidane still ring in my ears from last years CL against Monaco. B nature I'm a very optimistic person but there is something on the inside of the club that is rotten. Players or management there is something wrong.

Interesting, it is just that comment I could not get out of my head when thinking about RM. From the 2 1/4 match I seen it feels like something like that is the problem, everyone play for themself. No off the ball running at all.

Internal? What do you mean?

Last year Zidane allegedly said "Can't you see we are not together" to Giuly about the Real Madrid squad. Ronaldo have also been coming out with similar comments. It is camp time in the team with the different groups/camps not especially liking each other, that is in that case always accentuated when things don't go well.

 

The only word that occurs to me after reading some of these posts is 'overreaction'. I am not worried at all. As I've stated in a previous thread, there are many reasons why I continue to support Perez, and why many others do as well, despite the bad run of results. I have three pieces of advice to offer.

1) The Spanish sports press are great for news, because they are generally on top of things before others, such as transfers, sackings, new contracts, tactics etc. But whenever opinion is inserted, as to the management of a club, the form of a team, judgment of player transfer, I take it with a large grain of salt, because these papers are basically sports tabloids, and they sell with sensationalism. When Madrid is winning, everything is grand, and when its losing, everything is terrible. The same goes for Barcelona and its local press. Madrid played well in versus Deportivo, far better than Deportivo did, and had they had a bit more luck, today's stories and reactions would be far different. But in the end, its goals that count. However if they continue playing like this, I do not expect them to continue losing.

2) This is just the opening part of what will be a long season, and I hope that some of us can remember this. We've been in far worse situations before, and ended up quite well. What are runs of 'bad form' for other teams get blown into 'crises' for Real Madrid, making everything take on an exaggerated feel. But I think we can all agree that Madrid has been improving since Remon took over, and this should give us reason to be optimistic. The club's financial health should also give us reason to be optimistic, because we'll be able to strengthen ourselves in January, and if things continue badly, to rebuild in the summer. So remember, be calm, this is not the end of the world....

3) We have a fantastic team with many wonderful players, who have won us many things and given us a lot of fantastic football. Do not forget this. If you expected them to win every game, well, Im sorry to tell you, you were wrong. If you expected them to play well every match, again, Im sorry...Every season teams go through ups and downs, we are down, but moving up, and believe me, Barcelona and Valencia will not continue like this all season.

Like I said, I'm not worried. We're in no institutional crisis. We're in bad form, to me the problem is mainly mental, and we're showing signs of recovery. Off the field, we're in extraordinarily good health. I have faith in this team, and in this president, with concrete reasons for doing so.

 

The only word that occurs to me after reading some of these posts is 'overreaction'. I am not worried at all. As I've stated in a previous thread, there are many reasons why I continue to support Perez, and why many others do as well, despite the bad run of results. I have three pieces of advice to offer.

1) The Spanish sports press are great for news, because they are generally on top of things before others, such as transfers, sackings, new contracts, tactics etc. But whenever opinion is inserted, as to the management of a club, the form of a team, judgment of player transfer, I take it with a large grain of salt, because these papers are basically sports tabloids, and they sell with sensationalism. When Madrid is winning, everything is grand, and when its losing, everything is terrible. The same goes for Barcelona and its local press. Madrid played well in versus Deportivo, far better than Deportivo did, and had they had a bit more luck, today's stories and reactions would be far different. But in the end, its goals that count. However if they continue playing like this, I do not expect them to continue losing.

2) This is just the opening part of what will be a long season, and I hope that some of us can remember this. We've been in far worse situations before, and ended up quite well. What are runs of 'bad form' for other teams get blown into 'crises' for Real Madrid, making everything take on an exaggerated feel. But I think we can all agree that Madrid has been improving since Remon took over, and this should give us reason to be optimistic. The club's financial health should also give us reason to be optimistic, because we'll be able to strengthen ourselves in January, and if things continue badly, to rebuild in the summer. So remember, be calm, this is not the end of the world....

3) We have a fantastic team with many wonderful players, who have won us many things and given us a lot of fantastic football. Do not forget this. If you expected them to win every game, well, Im sorry to tell you, you were wrong. If you expected them to play well every match, again, Im sorry...Every season teams go through ups and downs, we are down, but moving up, and believe me, Barcelona and Valencia will not continue like this all season.

Like I said, I'm not worried. We're in no institutional crisis. We're in bad form, to me the problem is mainly mental, and we're showing signs of recovery. Off the field, we're in extraordinarily good health. I have faith in this team, and in this president, with concrete reasons for doing so.

avrv, you are just the guy i wanted to here in this thread.
so i have a few questions:
1. maybe you are the wrong guy to ask this (since you are clearly a perez supporter), but how are the things in the streets/bars/pubs? i mean are realy 95% of the people are believing in perez (i'm comparing the number to the socios who vote for him)?
2. regarding beckham playing in midfield, i never recall hearing someone shouting out loud - either move him to the right or bench him. (unless you also think he is a great midfielder...)
3. regarding our wonderfull players, you indeed right that we have great players, players that served the club in the past and also brought great success to the club, but don't you think the team is not a single unit anymore? it is more of a personal small teams playing for one big team.
(i have to say that i dont know who to blame this, perez because he keeps buy players we don't need or the lack of leadership from raul that we had greatly in hierro).
anyway, i opend the thread to try actually and lure some more madrid based fans to write what is the feeling in the street.

Koeman4, thanks for translating the article, though most of it i was able to understand in spanish. this guy saying we are better off with pavons is got to be pretty stupid.
i also read in AS people saying perez should stop being nice towars the federation and do something when desicions against real madrid are made by refferees. though i tend to agree that we should fight to have justice made for our team, actually writing is basicaly tring to say "we lost because the pitch was bad..."

 

Florentino Perez has brought more success to Real Madrid than any other Spanish team in the last five years of his tenure.

He has also eliminated our debt, and improved Madrid across the world as a dominant sporting organization.

He stays; case closed.

 

95% of all Madrid fans don't support Perez. Not nearly as many of the 'general mass' support him, not close to the support he receives among the socios. This is because the mindset is completely different. Normal fans, by and large, judge the team almost entirely based on its success (or lack thereof) on the field. If the team is doing badly, then as is normal in human nature, they want someone to blame. Some go for the players, some go for the coach, some for the president. In my opinion, its a bit of all 3. Of course there are those who attribute it all directly and indirectly to Perez, as the ultimate decision-maker at the club. That's fair enough, and I've never argued that he hasn't made mistakes. But what I think generally happens, is that outside the main body of club members, far more importance and weight are given to the mistakes he's made in terms of manager appointments or player transfers, than to the beneficial things he's done for the club on and off the field.

Socios give far more importance to the fact that, in essence, he has guaranteed their control of the club. Since Madrid is not an entity that is publicly traded, it cannot be 'taken over' in the traditional sense of the word (such as what is supposedly happening right now at Man Utd). Since no single person, or small group of people, own all or a majority of the club, it cannot be bought out, unless a huge amount of individual socios agree to it, which is virtually unthinkable. By my understanding, this can only happen (a loss of control) if the club is massively, massively indebted to a financial institution (either a caja de ahorros or a bank), - which was precisely the case when Perez took over - and is unable to maintain itself afloat with the interest payments. So, by his economic renwal and restructuring, he has basically ensured that the club remains in the power of its members, and this is something they haven't forgotten. There are other points in his favor which Ive mentioned in other posts that I wont get into now but this is the key one, in my opinion. And since its really only the socios that he is responsible to in order to maintain his position, well, his position is quite secure. I hope thats cleared it up.

As for your other points, I think Beckham is an excellent footballer, not on the same level as Zidane or Ronaldo, but quite good nonetheless. And I think he is much more effective for us when he isn't tied down in the middle of the pitch, but has chances to get out wide and push forward. I've liked his contributions in the last two matches, and overall he's been one of our most regular performers in whats been an irregular campaign so far.

The team, Im sorry to say, has never been a 'unit' per se. This is just my opinion. I do think, however, that Hierro's presence as a motivator and captain was very important, and we've ended up missing him more than even Makelele which is the one everybody points the finger at, because until very recently, it seemed to me that the captain's armband was too big for Raul. Lately however I think he has begun growing into it.

As for Roncero's comments about Samuel, so far Ive been impressed by Samuel. Roncero is a Madrid fanatic who will jump to our defense any times its necessary, but he also has a job and the ultimate goal is to sell papers. Like I said, sensationalism...

 

Anyone who thought Real's win over Roma was a turning point for the Galatico's can forget about it. This team simply looks old and tired, it will be a minor miricale if Real finish third this season. I would love to see Real finish out of the top four and miss a spot in the UCL and at this point that's more the likely.


As long as Mr. Perez runs RM and not a top flight manager in the mold of a Capello or Wenger they can forget about winning any silverware in the next five years.


It all fell apart two seasons ago when Perez bought Beckham but dropped the warriors of the squad i.e. Campo. Hierro, Makelele, Conceiao, Cambiasso, Geremi etc etc You simply do not get rid of guys who have given their all to the club and not just on the pitch but in the dressing room. Guys like Campo and Hierro were the soul of the team and players like Conceiao and Makelele were it's heart. I've said a million times while the Zidane's, Henry's, Svehchenko's, RVN, Vincente's, and Nedved's of the World recieve all the glory the facts are it's the Makelele's, Vieira's, Gattuso's, Keane's, Baraja's and Davids of the World who deserve much of the credit.

 

thanks for clearing the point of socios/perez relationship. never looked at it in that way.
(not that i will ever support perez, i think he made realy bad calls regarding what players to sign and i think his infulence in the sport matters of this team is too big).

as for beckham, i totaly disagree with you, but then again, we don't have to agree on everything.

i guess in the long run, if perez plan for real madrid as a "company" is to end a few years with no titles but make a lot of money in those years then as i wrote many times - he forgot he is running a football club and not a "gap" store...

 

Campo sucked.

 

Tunis4Life, no offense mate, but I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I don't usually go after users for their posts, and just try to stick to direct responses to mine, but there are some things I want to take you up on.

First, suggesting we won't win any silverware for 5 years, just demonstrates to me that your global knowledge of Real Madrid, and its history is, to say the least, lacking. In over 50 years, this has never happened to us. Nor will it. One reason why I, and so many others around the world, truly believe with unshakeable conviction that Real Madrid is the greatest club in the world is the fact that we simply do not go 5 years without silverware.

And about Campo being part of the soul of the team, and Conçeição being part of the heart...I really do not understand what could possibly have driven you to write this. They were anything but. Campo was a paquete, with an impression level of 0 on the club. Flavio was also a paquete, who rarely played, and when he did, was terrible. It makes me think that in addition to you lack of historical knowledge, you're not too up to date on recent players either. I don't know the intention of your post, whether it was honest criticism, or to rub salt in the wound (and this is what Im leaning towards), and although I agree that the players who do the 'dirty work' are important, please don't come on here making posts like this in the future, for my sake at least.