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Best Yugoslavian player in history?

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Then I would say Prosinecki. Of course I can't speak for the players of the past, since I don't know any of them.
But Prosinecki is half Croat half Serb, so it's good for both of you guys. ;)

He's one of the most talented players I've ever seen.
I would give a close second to Savicevic.

These guys had great dribbling skills were both genius' (Dejan even had that nickname).

Very few players can match the technical skills either of these guys had.
 
#3 ·
I haven't seen Dzajic play, but considering all the stories I have read about him, and even just looking at some basic facts about his career (especially his success with the NT), he is our best player of all team..I think he has even officially been announced as our best player..
And when it comes to Dejo and Prosinecki, I would have to give Dejo an advantage, he was simply the most talented player in Europe at the beginning of the 90's..
The only aspect of the game where Robi maybe had an advantage was consistency..:D
 
#5 ·
I've followed Yugo-soccer since late 50s and I've seen in vivo many of the great players of the former Yugo. Here is the list of the top 10 since the WW2. The selection was based on the impact these players had on Yugo-football. Most of them left a personal mark on the game of football by their extrodinary talent, brilliant performances and gentelmanly behavior on and off the field. They are remembered not so much by the clubs they played for but rather by their personalities and craftmenship. In fact, people came to games to watch them.

1. Dragan Dzajic (played in 60s/70s) - the best
2. Stjepan Bobek (40s/50s)
3. Branko Zebec (40s/50s)
4. Dragoslav Sekularac (50s/70s)
5. Dejan Savicevic (80s/00s)
6. Rajko Mitic (40s/50s)
7. Vladimir Beara (40s/50s) - goalie
8. Bernard Vukas (40s/50s)
9. Dragan Stojkovic(80s/00s)
10.Dusan Bajevic(60s/70s)

There many others that could be added to this list: Velibor Vasovic, Milos Milutinovic (the older brother of Bora), Zlatko Cajkovski, Milutin Soskic, Ivica Osim, Dragan Holcer, Hasim Ferhatovic, Vladimir Petrovic, Safet Susic, Bora Kostic, Josip Skoblar, Vujadin Boskov, Rudolf Belin, Zvonimir Boban, Tihomir Ognjanov, Branko Stankovic. Neither Mihajlovic nor Prosinecki are in their class.

There were several famous players before WW2 which I did not included since I only read or heared about them: Ivica Hitrec, Blagoje Marjanovic, Aleksandar Tirnanic, Milovan Jaksic, Milutin Ivkovic and Detlinger.
 
#7 ·
Ben Akiba,

How can you possibly say that Prosinecki is not in that class?

What class is that? The majority of the players you listed played in a time when the game was not nearly as competitive as it is these days. You're going to compare a player from the 40's to a player today. I am 100% sure that none of those players would be good players today. They played in an easy time when nobody really specialized in a position. Anybody could play anywhere, and often times they did.

A good quote came Rivaldo who knows the game better than us.

He was referring to Pele and said that Pele wouldn't have been half the player he was back then if he was playing today. This is so very true.


Like anything in life, football gets better and more technical the longer it's played. The longer the game is played, players on average get better. They begin to refine their skills, and become specialists at their positions. With all the money that wasn't in the game back then, player development has come about, while it didn't exist back then. The players today are groomed to be great players.

There is no comparison between a great player today and a great player of yesteryear.


I respect your opinion, as you say you have seen these players play and have been following Jugoslav football for such a long time, but I couldn't disagree more.



Dare I say Robi could run circles around any of these guys. His dribbling skills are bettered only by Maradona and he can carry team. He took Dinamo from a regular east european team, and brought them some respectability in Europe by qualifying for the CL last two years, and having a good run in the UEFA cup three years before. He also "made" a number of Croatian NT players, who never called up before he came to Dinamo, and he is the one responsible for elevating their games.

He's also one of the main reasons Zvezda won the CL in 91, not the only reason, but one of the main reasons.

If a child wants to learn to become technically sound, it's Robi he should look at. The only thing this player never had was speed, and that hardly has anything to do with skill.


Of your only current players on your list, it can be debated between Robi and Dejan who was better. Savicevic was a phenomenal talent and even though I think Robi was better, you could argue this point to no end.

But to say Stojkovic is in this "top 10" is for lack of a better word "ridiculous" Stojkovic was a better than average player and that's it, end of story. He's certainly not top 10 material and couldn't carry Robi's bags, nevermind be a better player than him.


Just to add to the list since his name wasn't brought up, Davor Suker has accomplished more than anybody else in former Jugoslavia and is the best natural striker to come out of there and it's amazing he didn't make the list.

Maybe if he played in 50's he would have.:rolleyes:
 
#8 ·
Ivo, I'd agree with both you and Rivaldo if you were right. Rivaldo is a great player, but he isn't Pele. He is neither Boby Charlton, nor George Best, nor Garincha, nor Eusebio, nor Ferenz Puskas, nor Alfredo DiStefano. What aforementioned players meant for the game of football in their own days was greater than waht Rivaldo represents in the present days. They were idols of the football-crazed masses all over the world. They advanced the level of the game in their own time. Their imapct on and off the field was enormous. These are criterions one should use to compare players throughout different ages. By using Rivaldo's and your absolute criterions, it would turn out that the Norwegian team of the 90s is a better side than say Uruguay or Hungary of the 50s.

Regarding Prosinecki, he was my favorite player in the Red Star golden team. However, I think that he hasn't been as good as some of players he has played with, including Boban, Savicevic and Stojkovic. It is likely that Prosinecki will be forgotten in 10 years, but the other three will be always remembered as shining stars of Yugo/Cro football. Actually, in Dinamo's glorious history, I can think of player named Rudolf Belin whose talent, style and class outshined that of Prosinecki. He was a key player of the generation which won for Dinamo the UEFA Cup (at that time known as Fare's Cup). He was marvelous as player and as a gentleman. He also played for Red Star several international games as guest player. I wish he joined RS. Nevertheless, because of him, there was always a soft spot for Dinamo in my heart.

Suker is certainly a good player. But tell me why would you consider his impact on Dinamo and Yugo/Cro football greater than that of Drazen Jerkovic? (Jerkovic was a player which I intensively disliked.)
 
#9 ·
It depends on how you view the question. Now when you compare the impact a player has, it's different from comparing the talent the player has. I was looking at the latter, so we weren't really on the same page there.


If we look at Suker, I'm not going to list his accomplishments, because I'm sure we both know what they are. But his contribution to the Cro NT was priceless. He has a scroing rate that few strikers can compare with. I think it's 42 goals in 52 games. He also holds the record for most goals ever scored in european championship play. I think he has 18(1 for Jugo 17 for Cro). He has scored so many important goals, and that can't be forgotten.

I'm sure you can appreciate that Davor winning the golden boot at France is a great source of pride for us, and certainly no small contribution. What made that contribution even better was that he never scored more than once in a game, so basically all his goals were important, with the exception of the 3rd goal against Germany, which didn't really matter.


Since most of Suker's accomplishments were after the breakup, he isn't really relevant to the discussion, but then niether is Boban.


Like I said, I was looking at it from a pure talent point of view. IMO Prosinecki and Savicevic are the leaders in this. But I can't speak for these old players since they're before my time.

IF you are to look at the contributions players made, you must agree that Robi made a huge contribution to Zvezda's CL winning side. Winning the CL in 91 has to be considered a great accomplishment, because it would have been unrealistic for an east european team to have won such a competition. The monetary situation was better then than now, but it was still much in favour of western clubs. My point being that Robi was a major part of one of the best accomplishments Jugo football has achieved, so I don't see how he wouldn't make your top 10.

Robi's contribution to Dinamo over the last 3 years would have been more recognized had it occured only 5 years prior. The reason being the monetary situation after the war was bery bad, as you obviously know, so he could only help Dinamo so much. If there had been a couple more very good players on that team, I believe they could have made the quarter finals of the CL. It may sound unrealistic to you, but I really do feel that. The reason there wasn't more good players was because it couldn't be afforded.


But in the end everybody sees it differently. We all appreciate different aspects of the game, and different aspects of players' abilities.
 
#10 ·
I think we agreed that in order to judge football players we have to assess their value in the time they played and the impact they had on posterity. (I don't think, however, that talent has evolved over years such that that present day players are more talented than those 20+ years ago.) In that regard, I am sure that you agree that players like Didi, DiStefano, Matthews, Puskas, Pele, Kruyff (sp), Beckenbauer, Boby Charlton, Maradona have a special status. I also think that those that I listed among the top 10 Yugo players have had an exceptional impact on the development, popularisation and success of the game of football in ex-Yugoslavia.
 
#11 ·
I don't think it's a matter of the talent "evolving".

The reason I say the talent is better is because players are groomed for specific positions these days. For instance, Suker is a striker and that's it. He doesn't rotate at all, and his concentratin is solely on scoring goals.

Also, there's a lot more money in the game, so player development is there now, which it wasn't before. All players have a certain amount of talent, but these days that talent is being nutured by professionals, whereas in the 50's, the player didn't have the resources he does today.

To sum it up, I'd say the talent is very refined these days, while it was very raw in those days, thereby making it better.
 
#13 ·
I'm affraid that you have a misconcept about the state of affairs in the football of 20+ years ago. Your example with Suker as being a goal machine because his talent was groomed in that way can be countered by the example of G. Mu"ller of Germany and Bayern (in the 60s and 70s). He was exclusively a goal-scorrer and a prolific one indeed.

I also think that in relative terms players were payed equally well 20+ years ago. However, they could expect a greater loyalty from their clubs and fans in those days.

In those days, talents would not in general have such a meteoric rise and fall as today (e.g., Danilson or even Ronaldo). I think this phenomenon of press working rlentlessly to promote or demote a star began with the entrance of Maradona on the world stage. He was a true great player, one of the greatest, but his fame and demise were very much owed to the press. Before that, stars were made by fans, not by press. A typical example are Dragoslav Sekularac in Yugoslavia and Garincha in Brazil. Fans adored them for their spectacular talent and press hated them. I still remember watching Red Star vs. Botafogo played in Belgrade in 1959 in which those two players were at the top of their games. It was different type of football at those days, but it was wonderful and exciting and those two guys were unbelievable. Hard to find such enterteiners and magicians these days.
 
#14 ·
Are you kidding me IVO? Dragan Stojkovic was one of zvezda's best ever players and by far the most popular plyer in Yugoslavia. 4 u to see him play now and make judgement is wrong. If the Croat Ivica Osim who in 1990 didn't like playing too many serbs had not let dragan play he would of gotten shot out of the job! No joke IVO he was very good, and only special players still play football at his age.
 
#15 ·
I'm not questioning Stojkovic's talent, not at all. I've seen a lot of him, not just recently.

I'm saying that Prosinecki is a much more talented player than Stojkovic. Prosinecki did more for Zvezda than did Stojkovic. What Stojkovic could do with a football, Robi could do with an orange. That was a quote from Platini comparing Zidane to Maradona.

The only thing I'm questioning is how Stojkovic could be considered better than Robi on an all time list.

Now Ben Akiba is looking at what players have contributed and such, now I simply ask, what has Stojkovic contributed. I'm not saying he hasn't done anything, but just tell me what he's done that exceeds Robi.

I say 10 years down the road, more people (not including Cro & Jug) will remember Prosinecki.
 
#16 ·
Looks like my post on Prosenicki vs. Stojkovic and Suker got lost. Let me try again.

I don't dispute the talent of Prosinecki. I think it is equal to that of Stojkovic. There are departments that Prosenicki is even better than Stojkovic, e.g., long ball passes. However, there is one thing that Stojkovic has been superior to Prosinecki: Stojkovic posseses the aura of a star, winner, leader and he is a fan darling, whereas Prosinecki is comparably modest in all these aspects. That makes all the difference and that is what distinguishes a star from an excellent player. Stojkovic will be always remembered and liked by football fans of Yugoslavia and Japan no matter which club those fans are devoted to. It won't be the case with Prosinecki though. In 5-10 years he will be forgotten. Although Prosinecki was my favorite even when Stojkovic was playing for Red Star, there was no doubt that the latter was the leader and the spirit of the team.

Suker has all my respect. My question was whether Drazen Jerkovic could be considered as important for Cro. football as Suker has been. Like Suker, Drazen Jerkovic was a prolific scorer, a best scorer in the WC (1962), and a true Cro. patriot at times when it was dangerous to publicly express such a feeling. I did not like him because of his nationalism and his Zagreb-u"ber-ales atitude, but Dinamo fans understandably adored him.
 
#17 ·
you right,ben,he was a really patriot and for that we croats just adore him.For me prosinecki was better than stojkovic,but not enought for savicevic.
Suker was a fu***in striker in france and without him,croatia does not been 3rd on the world!!

[Edited by eusebio on 07-08-2000 at 11:19]
 
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#18 ·
Prosinecki was a great player, but the fact is that after he left Zvezda he didn't do much. Bringing Dinamo "respectability" in Europe does not really make a world class player out of you...
I am just saying that in Ben Akiba's top ten, there really is no room for Prosinecki, now whether Piksi should be there is another question, a matter of taste I suppose...
From the Croat generation that played in WC '98, I'd rather pick Suker or Boban than Prosinecki..
In '91 I wouldn't have said this for sure, but for the simple reason that Robi had accomplished more at that time, but the fact is that since then Prosinecki has more or less stagnated while Suker and Boban have developed into world class players..
And Ben Akiba, you obviously have an excellent understanding of the Yugoslavian football scene, and I must say that one player has always been a mystery for me, since he is in the Red Star hall of fame, but I haven't read as many stories about him as I have about Seki and Dzaja - Vladimir Petrovic Pizon..:)
What made him a "Zvezdina zvezda"??
 
#19 ·
I've read all your articles and want to point out a thing.

If I would ask one of my friends (I live in Sweden) about which Yugoslavian players they heard of they would most probably mention: Savicevic, Boban, Suker, Milosevic (because Euro2000), Mihaljovic, Jugovic. I don't think anyone would come up with the name Prosinecki. That doesn't mean that these other players are better, but it says a little something about the impact and popularity of them.

And I ask myself, why have Prosinecki never excelled at an "big" team? If he is so great as IVO says.
 
#20 ·
Sorry to be rude, but that's the dumbest thing I'v ever heard.

If you were to ask a Jugoslavian friend. Did you know that the old Jugo doesn't exist, in case you didn't there was a war that about 5 years ago, it was on the news just about everyday, in case you never saw it.

Now take that into account, because when you ask a Jugo, of course he'll talk about Jugos, just like if you ask a Cro, he'll talk about Cros. So that makes the question pretty damn stupid if you ask me.

But please do humour me and go and ask your friend.
 
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