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BoRiS

· Imperium Romanum
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Now this is far from a pessimistic thread, rather a place where we can bring up vital questions that need to be answered by all of us and, hopefully, we can have some enjoyable debating on some necessary topics.

So let me get started.
Our NT is now in shambles after these qualifications after what has to be the most garbage performance of football I’ve seen in a while. So we all know that but allow me to jump right in and dissect our performance based on tactics and technicalities on the pitch:

We were garbage on the field because:

1) Our players can not KEEP CALM ON THE BALL. When they receive the ball, they become scared. There is no need for shame here. In football, many a time a player’s low confidence and fear is exposed through his lack of ability to hold the ball.
This point can be itself broken into two, namely:
; Being indecisive and panic into forcing a foul or a silly loss of possession, or simple idleness.
; Sending LONG BALLS up field hoping and clutching on straws that the ball lands onto one of our players’ feet.

Do you all think that the long ball “tactics” we employ is really a tactic?
No Sir, that is a sign of low player confidence, low player decisiveness and a poor understanding of the team members around the man executing that damned long ball.

The second major point that I can directly point out that is at fault on the pitch is something I cannot fit a word to. Although, I can give some words that come to mind; And these are: lack of Work ethic, a low sense of urgency, and lack of purpose.

Note that all I mentioned above can be totally patched up! This is not something that is intrinsic in our players and those coming from our country. This is all controlled by tactics afterall.
Now I love observing problems and conjuring up ideas on a variety of remedies.
On the topic of the inevitable question: The coach.

I fully acknowledge that he is the wrong man for the job. He is a very good coach and a good man, I admire him, but not one that is needed from our NT. I always try my best to prevent myself from lashing out at coaches. From day one I was against him taking up the job, but what did I do then? I said to myself this is what our association wanted so this is what they get; now I will give my utmost support to the coach even though he is not near the man for thejob. This is what I thought back then. Mind you, this was a time when I was on a flight from Belgrade and to my delight the newspapers mentioned Roedi Voeller (Sp?) is close to taking up the job, who I think would be definitely better. It’s either a local coach that must take us, a German or Dutch coach. I cannot see anything else, no way…


I am not upset at all. We are punching below our height now, “we” have had bumps before (How do I define “we” here when “our” nations name has changed three fold..Haha…).

We still produce really good talents but I think they get diluted as time goes by. And this can be prevented which brings me to my second last point:

Our players prematurely leaving for other top leagues.
This is a disturbing problem. Even if they thrive technically oversees they all play in a very large variety of leagues with large distances between themselves.
Our clubs at home need to realize that by holding fast onto them at a young age, they can indeed reap benefits over he long while instead of selling for quick cash.
Now how to manage this problem is a whole different story, maybe I can post some opinions later.
I think Serbia has one of the largest exporters of players (This has nothing to do with how good we are, just a trend) to the largest variety of leagues in Europe (Even at such a young age…such a shame). This was mentioned by a couple of you before. But why? Why do clubs seem to get young players from us when there are more promising players all around us? Weird…

I am not going to compare A’s with B’s when concerning NT’s. I am not, and neither should anyone else, compare with our success with B and our failures while C thrives. This is about us and no one else.

Last point: Our association- They are naïve and incompetent. Not bad or this or that… but naïve. This needs to change. And they need to pursue Diaspora Serbs to play for out NT much more effectively. We are already losing that battle with a couple of players.


I am no expert, I did not watch football since I could tie my shoelaces but this is my humble assessment.
I would love it if you could all add your own morsels to this and agree and disagree while we try and see what we need for the future and not…

So I say although we are at a all time low now, we will come right but things need to change……. Long term change.



If you don’t know what to say, start off by giving your opinion on Clemente.


Cheers!
 
It starts with a conscientous coach (whoever that may be) residing in Serbia. Not watching our players on Setanta Sports while telephoning Terzic from a lap pool in Madrid.
 
Interesting interview:

http://www.b92.net/sport/intervjui/intervjui.php?yyyy=2007&mm=11&nav_category=91&nav_id=273338

22. novembar 2007. | MR, MT
Stevanović za B92: "Problem moramo da tražimo u nama samima"

Fudbalska reprezentacija Srbije nije uspela da se kvalifikuje na Evropsko Prvenstvo 2008. koje će da se održi u Austriji i Švajcarskoj. Srbiji je je za plasman na EP bila potrebna pobeda nad Poljskom, uz poraz Portugalije, ali ključ neuspeha leži u porazima od, na papiru, slabijih protivnika – Kazahstana i Belgije, kao i u remiju sa Jermenijom. Bivši pomoćnik prethodnog selektora Ilije Petkovića, Goran Stevanović smatra da su našem fudbalu potrebna nova rešenja i da grešku treba da potražimo među nama samima, da ne možemo druge da krivimo za neuspeh.

"Pošto se mi bavimo takvim poslom gde rezultat na kraju sve govori, ovi što su se kvalifikovali na Evropsko Prvenstvo – oni su i bili najbolji sigurno, bez obzira šta smo mi mislili i da li smo se potajno nadali da bi i mi mogli tu da budemo. To realna situacija i pored toga što su se tri velike ekipe koje su igrale polufinale Svetskog Prvenstva (Italija, Portugalija, Francuska), "kroz muku" kvalifikovale. Međutim, na kraju je bilo jako teško i zamisliti ovo EP bez njih. Ipak, na moju sreću i sreću svih ljubitelja fudbala, drago mi je što će se i oni naći tamo. Dakle, najbolji su tamo. Bez obizira da li tu po kvalitetu pripadaju i domaćini, Austrija i Švajcarska, svi ostali koji su se kvalifikovali su sasvim sigurno zasluženo tamo".

Verovatno najveće iznenađenje ovog kvalifikacionog ciklusa je neuspeh Engleske. Selekciji ’Gordog Albiona’ bio je dovoljan remi u susretu sa Hrvatskom na ’Vembliju’, ali su igrači selektora Stiva Meklarena poraženi od mlade reprezentacije naših suseda sa 3:2. Stevanović veruje da je problem kod Engleza veliki broj stranaca u Premijer Ligi.

"To je bila jedna od najinteresantnijih utakmica ovog ciklusa. Jednostavno, Englezi plaćaju ceh onom novcu kojim se toliko hvale, kojim daju vrednost njihove lige. Oni moraju da vide da je to liga stranaca, da joj stranci daju kvalitet a ne novac. Mogli bi na pametniji način da upotrebe taj novac, nego u odnosu na ono šta trenutno rade".


Stevanović je jedan od najmlađih trenera kod nas koji je dobio profi licencu, ali posle SP nije imao anganžman. Za razliku od nas, u Hrvatskoj se pružila podrška mladom treneru Slavenu Biliću i njegovom asistentu Aljoši Asanoviću, što im se vratilo na najbolji mogući način – plasmanom na EP.

"Što se tiče Hrvatske, zaista sam prijatno iznenađen, pogotovo što su i oni podmlađivali ekipu, što se kod nas potenciralo. Imali su poverenja u dva mlada stručnjaka – Bilića i njegovog asistenta Asanovića i drago mi je zbog njih što su odveli Hrvatsku na EP".

"Podmladili su ekipu i isforsirali svoje stručnjake, imali su poverenja u njih. Oni svoj nacionalni interes znaju da poštuju i da cene i na tome im treba čestitati. Izuzetno su odigrali ove kvalifikacije, zaista fantastično. Mislim da će oni biti jedni od kandidata za visok plasman na EP“.

Engleska Fudbalska Asocijacija otpustila je trenera Stiva Meklarena neposredno posle poraza od Hrvatske i Stevanović smatra da je jedan od problema našeg fudbala neefikasnost u rešavanju problema.

"Kao što sam već rekao, rezultat je taj koji drži trenera ili ga tera. To je bio logičan potez fudbalskog saveza Engleske, dok se kod nas toliko pitanja postavlja: 'da li, da ne'... Eto, neka nam Englezi daju odgovor na naš problem".

Sadašnji selektor, Havijer Klemente, doveden je posle neuspeha selekcije SCG na Svetskom Prvenstvu u Nemačkoj prošle godine. Selekcija Srbije je tada ostvarila sva tri poraza, a Goran Stevanović tada je bio pomoćnik selektoru Iliji Petkoviću. Stevanović smatra da je glavni problem u nama samima i da tu treba da se traži problem, a ne u Klementeu ili bilo kome drugom.

„Mi smo klupski odavno udarili glavom u zid. Vidim da se ništa ne menja i to je teško, pogotovo u ovoj situaciji. Mi smo stalno u nekim tranzicijama, promenama, čekanju... Jednostavno, u fudbalu i sportu za to nema vremena. Iskreno se nadam da će doći neka novija rešenja, da će se neko ozbiljnije zapitati gde se mi to nalazimo i da li je to realna slika. Moramo tražiti grešku u sebi, nikako u Klementeu jer je i sam Klemente nečija greška. Nije on sâm kriv, on je proizvod nečije greške. Moramo u svojim redovima tražiti i naći krivca. Bez obzira na moje emocije, jer sam ipak bio deo nečega dobrog – znam šta je dobro, znam šta znači kvalifikovati se pa i iz tog gledišta govorim – ne smemo biti cinični i zlobni, ostrašćeni. Ne smemo sada da mrzimo sve, i ono što je bilo loše i ono što je bilo dobro, već moramo na sve to da gledamo mirne glave“.

Goran Stevanović je, kroz tendenciju da iz Srbije u inostranstvo uglavnom odlaze defanzivni igrači, primetio da su se promenili karakter i fizionomija našeg fudbala.

„Toliko smo na neki način onemoćali i sami sebe nagrdili – i duhovno i moralno, da smo izgubili svoju fizionimiju kao narod i podržavanjem svega tuđeg postali smo totalno bezlični. Zbog svega toga bi trebalo prvo na tom planu da potražimo rešenje. Moramo da shvatimo da smo mi nekad bili ’evropski Brazilci’, a sada ne bih znao sa kojom zemljom mogu da nas uporedim, a da ne povredim tu zemlju“.

„Moramo da znamo da smo mi talentovana zemlja, ali u poslednjih nekoliko godina prodajemo isključivo igrače koji nose brojeve od 1 do 6. Odavno nismo prodali nijednu ’osmicu’, ’devetku’ ili ’desetku’ ili igrače koji znače nešto više u evropskom fudbalu. Naravno ne želim da ponižavam ostale, međutim to mnogo govori o karakteru i promeni naše fizionomije. Nas niko ne može da laže, mi znamo da gledamo fudbal, mi smo fudbalska nacija i mi moramo našem narodu da ponudimo mnogo više“.

Stevanović je zaključio priču time da su prazne tribine na utakmici sa Poljskom odgovor na sva pitanja vezana za srpski fudbal.

„Osvrnuo bih se na onih 1.000 ljudi koji su došli na jučerašnju utakmicu, pošto ih sada svi napadaju. Zaboravlja se da naši ljudi znaju da gledaju fudbal i njima ne možeš da prodaš praznu priču. Ta razmena energije i emocija sa publikom – to je put ka uspehu. Publika je u stvari odgovor. Jučerašnje prazne tribine su odgovor na sva pitanja koja će se ubuduće postaviti u našoj javnosti“.
 
yes let's even bury ourselves further....

the coach is one problem but not the only problem - is the coach's problem all the players lose their ability to pass the ball once they are under pressure? If the players are heartless woossies, is it the coach's fault?

Coach is not our only problem. Far from it
 
Serbia doesn't enough creativity and cleverness in the midfield. Players need to make good runs of the ball and play the combination game. What I've seen from from Serbia over the last 2 years is not Serbian football.
 
Andrix said:
yes let's even bury ourselves further....

the coach is one problem but not the only problem - is the coach's problem all the players lose their ability to pass the ball once they are under pressure? If the players are heartless woossies, is it the coach's fault?

Coach is not our only problem. Far from it

Yes, how come they can complete passes with pressure for their respective clubs. Because the coaches there know how to motivate the players and relax them.
 
Kezman008 said:
Yes, how come they can complete passes with pressure for their respective clubs. Because the coaches there know how to motivate the players and relax them.
We've been over this before. They can because Deki in Inter is surrounded with Ibrahimovic, Figo(?) and whoever else is there now. Vidic when he sends the ball, he is sending it to Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc.
Same goes for our other players, it is very rare that one of them is the "go to guy" in their teams, so when they come here and the responsibility IS on their shoulders, they simply crack under the pressure...

Andrix has a point, it is not the coach's fault when a player can't receive a ball or can't make a single pass. Our coach is not there to teach them the basics.
 
red star forever said:
We've been over this before. They can because Deki in Inter is surrounded with Ibrahimovic, Figo(?) and whoever else is there now. Vidic when he sends the ball, he is sending it to Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc.
Same goes for our other players, it is very rare that one of them is the "go to guy" in their teams, so when they come here and the responsibility IS on their shoulders, they simply crack under the pressure...

Andrix has a point, it is not the coach's fault when a player can't receive a ball or can't make a single pass. Our coach is not there to teach them the basics.

So you are saying that just because our players are surrounded by better players it makes them better. When Stankovic makes a nice pass, whether it would be to Ibrahimovic or to Pantelic, it would still be the same pass. Just because Ibrahimovic recives it does not make the pass better than when Pantelic recieves it. On a further note, how can you explain Jovanovic scoring tons of goals for Standard Leige, but not scoring for the NT. How can you explain Pantelic scoring for Hertha but not for the NT. It is not the midfield, because Serbia NT's midfield is better than both Standards and Herthas, it is the coaches tactics.
 
Kezman008 said:
How can you explain Pantelic scoring for Hertha but not for the NT. It is not the midfield, because Serbia NT's midfield is better than both Standards and Herthas, it is the coaches tactics.
Or maybe it isn't.

Or maybe, the opposition Pantelic and Jovanovic face when they score goals in the Bundesliga and Jupiler League is weaker then the one they face when we play other countries.

Or maybe, it's easier to score "tons" of goals when you play tons of games (there are 30+ league matches and in qualifying you don't play half of that) and when you train nonstop with your teammates every day and have time to adapt to them...

etc.
 
Andrix said:
yes let's even bury ourselves further....

the coach is one problem but not the only problem - is the coach's problem all the players lose their ability to pass the ball once they are under pressure? If the players are heartless woossies, is it the coach's fault?

Coach is not our only problem. Far from it

That doesn't wash for me anymore. I sincerely believe that we need a motivator. Mihajlovic is a legend to many of the players in our NT. You cannot teach players at this level anything new, you just need the mindset, which is something we do not have.
 
Klinsmann had limited experience before he took over Germany when in a similar position to us a few years ago. By all reports he is a great motivator which transformed a German team with limited talent to a force again.

I will concede however that Germans are generally mentally tougher then most other people.
 
Andrix said:
Or maybe it isn't.

Or maybe, the opposition Pantelic and Jovanovic face when they score goals in the Bundesliga and Jupiler League is weaker then the one they face when we play other countries.

Or maybe, it's easier to score "tons" of goals when you play tons of games (there are 30+ league matches and in qualifying you don't play half of that) and when you train nonstop with your teammates every day and have time to adapt to them...

etc.
So you are saying the likes of Bayern Munich, Werder, Shalke, Hannover, etc. are weaker then Armenia, Kazakhstan, and Armenia who we cannot SCORE AGAINST, let alone win conforatably.
 
Goran Stevanović said:
Moramo tražiti grešku u sebi, nikako u Klementeu jer je i sam Klemente nečija greška. Nije on sâm kriv, on je proizvod nečije greške. Moramo u svojim redovima tražiti i naći krivca. Bez obzira na moje emocije, jer sam ipak bio deo nečega dobrog – znam šta je dobro, znam šta znači kvalifikovati se pa i iz tog gledišta govorim – ne smemo biti cinični i zlobni, ostrašćeni. Ne smemo sada da mrzimo sve, i ono što je bilo loše i ono što je bilo dobro, već moramo na sve to da gledamo mirne glave.
Here is a man trying to vindicate.

So basically he is suggesting we find a scapegoat (the FA) for hiring Clemente. In other words if he himself was left in his post with Petkovic then we would have once again qualified, because after all he "knows what's good and what it means to qualify".

Gee, thanks for reminding us, Goran.
 
Well, results speak for themselves.

When he was leading the team with Petkovic (some say he did most of the coaching), we qualified. We didn't drop points against the minnows in the group and against the direct competitors for qualification we did more or less the same as with Clemente (slightly better, actually!). But with Clemente we didn't qualify.
 
Andrix said:
Well, results speak for themselves.

When he was leading the team with Petkovic (some say he did most of the coaching), we qualified. We didn't drop points against the minnows in the group and against the direct competitors for qualification we did more or less the same as with Clemente (slightly better, actually!). But with Clemente we didn't qualify.
About the games against direct competitors - I take it the slightly better you're referring to was a draw in the 2nd match against Belgium (as opposed to a loss this time round). Granted. But not much else was better.

The minnows weren't tough that time round either, but I suppose that's arguable...

Edit: Just remembered Poland :D

Come to think of it the group dynamics were quite different. There was a 6 team group and an 8 team group. To expand on the minnows issue, San Marino were merely making up numbers with a -38 goal differential across 10 games. So that leaves Lithuania who if my memory serves me correctly were understrength when they faced us?
 
As for the results of Petkovic & sons, the WC games are part of that too and it's not the margin of defeat that's the problem, but the manner in which we played. All the things people would like to see from our team - good attacking football, players with desire, etc... none of that was on display. I don't believe it was prior to the WC either, only that it wasn't exposed.
 
L8nite said:
As for the results of Petkovic & sons, the WC games are part of that too and it's not the margin of defeat that's the problem, but the manner in which we played. All the things people would like to see from our team - good attacking football, players with desire, etc... none of that was on display. I don't believe it was prior to the WC either, only that it wasn't exposed.
Exactly right. :thmbup:

Only luck saved us from copping a major hiding in Spain. Petkovic, no thanks, not anymore.
 
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