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Without turning this into a stupid debate over this I did hear it and I am sure lots of others did, the sash my father wore, FTP was all I heard.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
I think the way this is being dealt with is farsical. It's prolonged and will result in the inevitable which in turn will make not one jot of difference. There is no point in reporting the singing as it goes at every away game so as James said it can't come as a surprise to anyone.

The sad fact is no matter what action is taking it won't stop these people doing it. They will instead probably be more determined next time around. This will result in Rangers being docked points and probably end up in the long term with penalties in Europe too. Does anyone really think it will stop these people singing their songs?

There is no chance. For me the only way is to weed them out one by one in a long term strategy and ensure they don't get into ground in future. Their bastardised ideals truely amaze and the justifications are just mental. All the while the club the apparently support suffers as do the other supporters that follow the club.

It's a shame once again that the game takes a back seat to the singing as if that is news- it's not. It's a problem that has no place in today's society but it not being tackled.
 
I don't have any time for the FTP brigade, but neither do I have any time for self-righteous bullsh*tters and Celtic spin-doctors who come on here pretending to be hurt and offended by songs. I'll engage in a discussion if it is indeed that, but until then Celtic fans can eff off.
 
chivoexpiatorio said:
I think the way this is being dealt with is farsical. It's prolonged and will result in the inevitable which in turn will make not one jot of difference. There is no point in reporting the singing as it goes at every away game so as James said it can't come as a surprise to anyone.

The sad fact is no matter what action is taking it won't stop these people doing it. They will instead probably be more determined next time around. This will result in Rangers being docked points and probably end up in the long term with penalties in Europe too. Does anyone really think it will stop these people singing their songs?

There is no chance. For me the only way is to weed them out one by one in a long term strategy and ensure they don't get into ground in future. Their bastardised ideals truely amaze and the justifications are just mental. All the while the club the apparently support suffers as do the other supporters that follow the club.

It's a shame once again that the game takes a back seat to the singing as if that is news- it's not. It's a problem that has no place in today's society but it not being tackled.
Perhaps if the type of strong action was taken which would deter the Rangers fans who indulge in this sectarian singing, but who would think twice about doing so if it brought genuine repercussions, it would then force those people into this "self policing" policy that they've been publicising against the others who don't give a damn either way, as it certainly didn't seem to be much in action today.

Either that or the only other alternative seems to be banning all Rangers fans from travelling to away grounds for the foreseeable future.

PS. Very mature response Corazon. :thumbsup:
 
TheSpaceCowboy said:
I have no doubts that if we get docked points,then Celtic will also be hammered too,as the 'its political' stance just wont wash.
The issue is clearly defined as "serious sectarian singing" by the SPL delegate. Political discussion/beliefs isn't the issue.
 
CorazĂłn said:
I don't have any time for the FTP brigade, but neither do I have any time for self-righteous bullsh*tters and Celtic spin-doctors who come on here pretending to be hurt and offended by songs. I'll engage in a discussion if it is indeed that, but until then Celtic fans can eff off.
I agree with that.

Its not just the Celtic fans thought its the other fans too. They are so hypocritical and two-faced about it all. Like its ok for Kilmarnock fans to sing about being up to their knee's in Ayr's blood, yet for Rangers fans to sing about being up to their knee's in Fenian's blood can lead to a point deduction ( incidentally it seems to be ok when Hearts fans sing the same lines). Or how many teams sing about opposition players being gay and bent with their arses up for rent? Or Aberdeen and Hibs fans singing about Glasgow slums. Or Scotland games with "if you hate the ****ing English clap your hands" or "stand up if you hate England" songs. Every club has offensive chants and songs on one level or another and now we are in this situation I can only hope that the rules and the threats of point deductions are going to apply even handedly across the board. But frankly i won't hold my breath on that!
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
soulrebel83 said:
Perhaps if the type of strong action was taken which would deter the Rangers fans who indulge in this sectarian singing, but who would think twice about doing so if it brought genuine repercussions, it would then force those people into this "self policing" policy that they've been publicising against the others who don't give a damn either way, as it certainly didn't seem to be much in action today.

Either that or the only other alternative seems to be banning all Rangers fans from travelling to away grounds for the foreseeable future.
I doubt very much deducting points is going to change the attitudes of the people singing the songs going by what I have read on Rangers forums over the years. If anything it will just re-enforce their resolve. To me they couldn't care less what is done to the club and other fans as they believe they have a cause to protect.

Self policing is not the answer either despite the club's attempts at pushing that. The majority of these guys are usually in groups and more often than not quite agressive. To most, including myself, it would be more hassle than it's worth to challenge them. There is no way I'm going to risk having my face rearranged for the sake of a football team.

They will continue regardless and the only way to stop them is to eject them. Banning all Rangers fans from away grounds could come in to play but I have my doubts whether the authorities would endorse that as they'd get a backlash from all the other clubs, Celtic apart, who would miss out on revenue. It's amazing how people will support a cause till it hits them in the pocket.

I agree with what TB said. There are plenty of candidates to be hauled over the coals but Rangers seem to be the only ones that are getting the attention. As TB also said there seems to be no clear guidelines as to what is apparently offensive.

It reminds me a bit of the Big Brother racism row which in my opinion involved alot of people whipping one scapegoat just to make themselves feel good by being on the righteous side. Not for a moment am I saying the singing is right because personally I think it is wrong. Some of the justifications I have heard and read just drive me up the wall like there is nothing wrong with singing about the UVF as they fought at the Somme. We know why they are singing about this group and it has nothing to do with the war. I've even seen someone suggesting that Rangers should pull players from the national squad if they are penalised domestically- obviously these are the people who do not know what an honour it would be for most Scots to represent their country on any front.

I think it's all a bunch a bollocks. It's suits in Scotland trying to throw their weight about for a pat on the head from UEFA. I know it is enforced but UEFA are not making them pick on one club- which without being paranoid is a fact which cannot be denied and I doubt anyone would believe Rangers are the only club with a problem. This is a brownie points scoring exercise which is not going to expand small minds and the only losers will be the real supporters.
 
CorazĂłn said:
I don't have any time for the FTP brigade, but neither do I have any time for self-righteous bullsh*tters and Celtic spin-doctors who come on here pretending to be hurt and offended by songs. I'll engage in a discussion if it is indeed that, but until then Celtic fans can eff off.
I'm not on bitching about it or moaning about it, I heard it and seen comments on it so thought I'd get my 2 cents worth.

What would be the point in deducting them points? I think they'll be needing a 10 point head start :D

I dont even know why people are encouraging points to be deducted anyway, apart from gaining a laugh at Rangers it will inevitably be reversed if certain elements of our support continue their chants on away days.

I wish UEFA never bothered handing out fines for this crap because its just started a vicious circle of this shite.
 
This is Scotland remember. At WORST the SFA will give them a ÂŁ3000 fine and a slap on the wrist. Until the club is punished by -3 points per sectarian game, the morons will continue to sing their songs of hatred. Fining with points is the only way IMO.
 
Chivo mentioned earlier that he doesnt feel they will stop singing their songs. I'm not sure if I completely agree with that, if the team their their supporting are docked 3 points for example for every game which fans sings such songs.

The thing is it can turn really really messy because it does not guarantee the fans of any old firm side will not sing and then it can turn out they are just constantly fined points.

Chivo also mentioned that it can just be a slow process of banning them, I think this is probably the best option but again, if you ban 10 then 10 more will just sing it instead.

To a certain extent the SFA and the sensible fans are fighting a lost cause.
 
I agree with Chivo, most of these guys would still go and still belch their pish if Rangers were in the third division, it's not about winning the SPL title for them, it's about upholding some outdated tradition. Track them down and ban them from all football grounds.
 
It is now at the stage where Rangers should be punished for their own inability to self-police. They have been given ample (and numerous) warnings from the Scottish Executive and Fifa; it is now time for the SFA to act properly. Some Rangers fans will have their heads in the sand over this one, but hopefully most normal fans will want this nonsense sorted.
 
I watched a good video on YouTube last night which was filmed by what I think was some amatuer director, he spoke with the Orange Lodge, various reputable watering holes and fans and got their opinion, the final outcome was largely unanimous, let them get on with it as long as they are not fighting or causing public trouble.

Sanity over sectarianism part 1

Sanity over sectarianism part 2

Sanity over sectarianism part 3

Sanity over sectarianism part 4

Its kind of sickening at times with the way they patter on, both sides that is. The guy filming it is obviously in agreement that the Scottish Exec. are making an issue over this to protect them against other matters which need attention, Schools, NHS, bla bla bla.
 
Heartsfan said:
It is now at the stage where Rangers should be punished for their own inability to self-police. They have been given ample (and numerous) warnings from the Scottish Executive and Fifa; it is now time for the SFA to act properly. Some Rangers fans will have their heads in the sand over this one, but hopefully most normal fans will want this nonsense sorted.
Interesting to see you continually slating our policy,when your own team has been dragged into this discussion in recent times,particularly when Celtic come to visit.
So whats your solution then?would you be quite happy to see your own team docked 3 points every time a minority of fans spout their nonsense?
 
I doubt docking points would be the answer to these idiots singing sectarian songs. They are there to make their voices heard, and will carry on even if the teams are docked.
I think the police at the grounds should be doing more, and I think CCTV should be used to help get them a life-time ban.
 
It wouldnt be the answer, its not practical. How the SFA could maintain continuity with docking points is beyond me.
 
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