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The Riquelme-For-Juventus Campaign

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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Stephan said:
but then again, riquelme was in barcelona before, and well barcelona defenetly had good quality players even then. I have just "heared" that he didnt do very well in barca.
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This is an old argument and a lousy one to boot, especially when discussing his possible future in Serie A. There are reasons for why he failed to gain his confidence and make the desired impact at Camp Nou. First off, his arrival didn't get the welcome it deserved when Van Gaal went public in stating that he "never asked for him". That would put a damper on anyone's game and motivation. Also, he was being inadequately utilized and played out of position more often than not. Therefore, he failed to perform on account of poor management (both on and off the pitch) as well as tactical ineptitude. For him to perform optimally, he needs space and freedom to launch in a team that's built around him. Villarreal essentially adopted this approach and reaped the benefits. Point being; the best of Riquelme comes out in a team that caters to him. I think it is something a star-studded team is less likely to do. Still, I believe Barcelona recognizes his talent and there's a reason why he was loaned when he could've been sold.

Riquelme's style of play doesn't rely on speed as much as it does on creativity and killer passes. How fast you can run really doesn't matter much in Serie A. In Europe, however, it is essential. Despite that, he got Villarreal as far ahead as the semi-finals almost single-handedly. That speaks for itself.

Having said all that, if he doesn't come to Juventus (preferably under a different coach) I want him to stay at Villarreal. I don't think Barcelona would want him back. It's an absolute certainty that they will not risk changing tactics just to have Riquelme in the starting eleven. Plus the positions he's most effective in, are already taken.
 
#22 ·
Like I've been saying in the other topic in the discussion with Glen and others, I don't think Riquelme would be suited for a big Italian team. The reason, simplifying:

Riquelme needs a team built around him.

And I don't think he is good enough for that, when we are talking about a big European team. He may have the skills: he has good vision, passing and can slow down the game when the team needs. But modern football isn't only about technique, as sad as it is for some of the classic style supporters. Riquelme lacks power, speed and even mental attributes that a high pressure and competitive league like Serie A demands. For his technique alone, he could be useful if he was more versatile, if he got more involved in the marking to play as a CM, or more faster with the ball to play as a winger. But he needs specific circumstances and tactics to show his best, and even then, he can't be trusted like a Kaká or Totti.

His mental weakness was shown in his brief spell at Barcelona. He didn't have the right attitude when he got the chance. These semifinals against Arsenal were another example: a player of his caliber, being so trusted by the team, needed to do more. Riquelme can shot well, but I didn't see him trying that once in the last game against Arsenal. IMO, this shows weak personality and incapacity of working under pressure at a high level.

Juventus may get players that are inferior technically, but at least those won't be the pillars and basis for a tactical system, like Riquelme needs ,therefore the risk when they can't perform is much smaller and won't sacrifice the whole team. A player like Deco or Gerrard, who can adjust to several positions or formations, or a winger like Robben, Joaquin or Vicente would be much safer bets IMO.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Roberto Gallo said:
Like I've been saying in the other topic in the discussion with Glen and others, I don't think Riquelme would be suited for a big Italian team. The reason, simplifying:

Riquelme needs a team built around him.
Click to expand...
This argument is blown completely out of proportion. Yes, he does need a good defensive midfield unit behind him to do all the dirty work as he has no defensive capability, but with Emerson and Vieira already there, Juve already have all the pieces in place to accomodate Roman. You don't need to build a "team" around Riquelme, you need to place two powerful CM's around him. If Marcos Senna and Josico can do that job at Villarreal, I don't see how two established stars like Emerson and Vieira would fail to do so at Juve.

Roberto Gallo said:
And I don't think he is good enough for that, when we are talking about a big European team. He may have the skills: he has good vision, passing and can slow down the game when the team needs. But modern football isn't only about technique, as sad as it is for some of the classic style supporters. Riquelme lacks power, speed and even mental attributes that a high pressure and competitive league like Serie A demands.
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You do realise that La Liga is played at a greater pace than Serie A, right? So if Roman managed to be MVP last season in La Liga ahead of Ronaldinho, what makes you think he wouldn't suit Serie A? I would also like to point out that Roman most definitely does not lack power, speed I will give you, but again, this is less important in Serie A which is the slowest-paced out of the Big 3 leagues in Europe.

Roman might not have the speed of Kaka, but not many can match the speed of his brain. He's always a step ahead because, like Zidane, he knows what he's going to do 3 seconds before everybody else. It's rare to find that element in a player, that's why he's rated as the best pure playmaker in Europe.

Roberto Gallo said:
His mental weakness was shown in his brief spell at Barcelona. He didn't have the right attitude when he got the chance.
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Does this mean Thierry Henry's mental weakness was showin in his brief spell at Juventus?

Roman did not set the World alight at Barca, but that's because they couldn't cater to his needs.

I am not surprised though, most Brasilians do not like Roman and with good reason. :jester:
 
#25 ·
Stephan said:
juve should get someone younger and someone who even isnt superstar yet, is young so he would be with juve for years if we wont look for money as it happened with zidane. btw how old was zizo when juve got him?
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Zizou was around the age of 24 when juve bought him...

As for riquelme going to juventus...imo would be a good move for both parties.

Interestingly enough, Tachinardi a former teamate of Zizou and current one of Riquelme goes on to mention that Roman is currently not only playing sublime football but comapered Riquelme to Zizou of five years ago... :thumbsup:
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
L-Pheno said:
This argument is blown completely out of proportion. Yes, he does need a good defensive midfield unit behind him to do all the dirty work as he has no defensive capability, but with Emerson and Vieira already there, Juve already have all the pieces in place to accomodate Roman.
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It's true; Riquelme does not track back, which is something many coaches find difficult to tolerate for a midfielder, no matter how potent an attacker he may be. But we already field two of the best DMs. I thought it would be obvious. :lala:
 
#27 ·
L-Pheno:

Having two DMs means you lose some creativity in midfield, and Riquelme's responsability would be immense. When he can't perform, the team suffers, like Villarreal did against Arsenal. Of course it's a big exaggeration to say that only Riquelme would create something, but the fact is - the team would be based on him. I would do that for a player like Ronaldinho, Totti or Kaká, but Roman lacks the speed and competitive aspects that these players have and are required on the big stage. Also, in terms of attitude, Roman is kind of shy, and you may agree with me that it's different to lead Villarreal and lead Juventus.

I'm sure Juventus supporters wouldn't be happy if their team was 4th place in La Liga, so we're talking about different standards..

I don't know if La Liga is really played in a faster pace than Serie A, but when I say pace, I meant the link between midfield and attack, which happens very faster in Serie A than in La Liga. I don't remember exactly which player said once, I think it was Davids, who said that in Spain, if you keep ball possession and switch passes for 30 seconds in the midfield waiting for a space to open in attack, people don't mind - and this is exactly Riquelme's style. But in Italy, people want things happening faster, and that's why you see more long passes and a more incisive football. Riquelme holding the ball too much and taking some time to decide wouldn't exactly mean failure, but it's impossible to not say it goes against the nature of Italian football.

And Roman was never better than Ronaldinho. Not this season, not last season, never. Maybe when Ronaldinho was 18 and played for Grêmio, when Roman played for Boca, but in Europe, never happened. If Riquelme was considered Spain's best, Ronaldinho was world's best.

I also have to disagree when you say Roman does things fast. He rarely gives first touch passes, most of the times he receives the ball, he takes a time to decide (that sometimes it's really the smartest option, since you need sometime for the attacking players to move or gaps in the defense to open) but sometimes, Roman just takes too long to do a thing that could've done in a simpler way if he had the pace. Just watch Totti playing, and see how many great long passes he gives in his first touch, or some videos of Baggio, who seemed to have a radar in his brain and could serve the attackers with an out of this world vision (to exemplify, see the goal he gave to Vieri in the game against Chile, World Cup 98). And compared to Zidane, alright, Zizou isn't faster than Totti or Baggio in his decisions, but he carries the ball faster than Roman, and also plays more vertical with less side passings - at least he used too. I think today's Zizou would find it really hard to play in Serie A as well.

Also remember how defenses in Italy are tighter, and if you don't decide fast, you may not see gaps opnening like in La Liga. Arsenal rarely gave space to Villarreal, and we've saw what happened. All chances the Yellow Submarine created were on flanks.

Also, comparing Henry's "failure" with what Riquelme did at Barça is a big exaggeration. Riquelme played more than half of the games that season, most of the times in his true position. Henry was a kid when he went to Juventus, played less than 10 games if I'm not mistaken, and as a left-winger; also, in a league that it's much harder to adapt than the Spanish (just see how top Spanish players never succeed in Serie A; Mendieta, Ivan de La Peña are two clear examples in my mind since I support Lazio).

And you might be mistaken about Brazilian's taste for Roman; most of the supporters here appreciate his style, since the classic playmaker is a position 99% of Brazilians want in their teams. Just open a thread in Brazilian football forum and you will see how people like Liternit and JCamilo highly rate Riquelme. Not to mention, even though he had a great game in Buenos Aires, he was nowhere to be seen when Brazil trashed Argentina in the Confederations Cup shortly after that....
 
#28 ·
Glen said:
I have no stomach for the Barca argument. Everything has been said about it already.

But for your information Riquelme came on 5-10 minutes before the end of regulation with the score 1-1 against us.

Will Riquelme do well in a team with many champions? Ask the Argentinians how they feel he is playing in the NT with loads of great players. Add Messi, Tevez, Crespo and the likes to Riquelme and its a different ball game.... and I dare say no one would be able to mark him as closely as they do against Villareal.
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Glen as much as we would like to believe, Juve is no Argentina.

Plus getting a 28 year old to me seems like just continuing a cycle of short term fixes that we have been working on recently.. we need to buy a young team that won't get tired at the time of the season when it really matters.
Yes Moggi is a genious but the team he and Capello have built this year still baffles me.
Riquelme will be a 1 or 2 year fix to that problem and then we will start talking about Retirement again.
 
#29 ·
Roberto Gallo said:
L-Pheno:

Having two DMs means you lose some creativity in midfield, and Riquelme's responsability would be immense.
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Good thing he is widely regarded as the best playmaker in the World, then. That's the whole point- his playmaking ability is so good that he can carry a team on his own if it has a good defensive structure.

Roberto Gallo said:
When he can't perform, the team suffers, like Villarreal did against Arsenal.
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That's because Villarreal do not really have many options, he is their only star.

At Juve, with the proposed line-up I made on this thread, Roman can afford to have an off-day because wizards like Joaquin or Zlatan could pick up the slack.

The rest of your post was very good and you made some fair points even though I disagree with some of them.
 
#31 ·
Riquelme a short time fix? hes 28... a playmaker like him doesnt need stamina... he barely runs... the way he plays now he can also play in 5-6 years... don't be foolish because of his age

the older they get, the better they are

think of Hagi and how he literally ripped teams apart with perfect assists and long range shots, intelligent dribbles etc. when he was 33
 
#32 ·
i never thought id see the day when the age of players would be mentioned. i remember going back when ballack was rumoured who is 30 years of age and no one cared about that factor anyway.

anyway, I think Riquelme would succeed at Juve providing the coach allows it to work. Under Capello, he simply won't join the club because Capello woudn't utilise him well.

Juve don't have many fast players at all...this has been a major factor in midfield this season. But the build up of play has been fairly slow as well so I think the clubs main concern should be not only looking at faster players but also players who can make the killer passes from midfield and link the midfield to the forwards a lot quicker than they do now...i think Riquelme fits the bill well.

With Marchionni joining, and hopefully another winger...eg. Mancini, it does give the team pace on the flanks, whether they play on each flank or rotate off the bench, at least the team will have the fast wingers who can really take on players and deliver. Camo is great at everything except pace...maybe another reason why the clubs wants to offload him.

I suppose Riquelme's lack of tracking back in midfield could be okay considering Juve would have Vieira and Emerson starting, and Zanetti and Giannichedda on bench..players who can all who down the DM positions fairly well. Keeping in mind that currently Vieira has to push up to offer something offensively, if he didnt have to do this, we would really have the great wall of China, or brasil and france in this case infront of our defence. And it means that Riquelme could do what he does best, that is creating.

At the end of the day, Juve need a playmaker. We can't rely on Nedved again, Camoranesi is leaving regardless and there are not many playmakers out there for sale. Aimar is only one year younger than Riquelme and he hasn't exactly set the world on fire like Riquelme has in recent times. Rosicky is good but not the player Riquelme is and besides that, there isnt many out there at all. Unless Capello wants to play the same old shite that we are now and gets another winger...eg. Mancini, C.Ronaldo...then we really do need creativity behind the forwards.

Over the years Moggi has ignored replacing zidane, it is time to and currently, besides Kaka and Ronaldinho, there is no better than Riquelme.
 
#33 · (Edited)
L-Pheno said:
Roman is a genius and would improve any team, he'd be a good fit at Juve.

Get rid of Capello and bring in Didier Deschamps.

Sign Pasqual, Gallas, Joaquin and Roman.


-------------------------Buffon--------------------

Pasqual--------Cannavaro--------Gallas-------Zambrotta

-------------------Emerson----Vieira---------------

------Joaquin------------Roman-----------Zlatan------

-----------------------Trezeguet--------------------


That team would just be downright ridiculous.

Have a little patience with Zlatan, he's an absolute wizard. It's not fair to ponder too much on his inconsistent form this season, the current team simply does not play to his strengths, Zlatan needs open spaces to run and exploit his ability- not crowded lanes with Nedved, Mutu, ADP and co all liking to drift out wide, playing 4-3-2-1 would offer him that.
Click to expand...

great team.. but I can make more great team

-------------------------Buffon--------------------

Cheillini-------Cannavaro---Gallas/Lugano/Barzagli ---Zambrotta

-------------------Emerson----Vieira---------------

------Mancini------------Roman-----------Cassano------

-----------------------Trezeguet--------------------

This team can dominate Europe :thumbsup:

Zlatan<->Cassano+Cash
Gallas or Lugano or Barzagli aren"t expensive, maybe under 5m euro
 
#34 ·
The only thing i like about Riquelme is his teamwork really. He has a good touch as well but i think we would be better off with a stronger central midfield, and therefore bring in Liverani.

On the other hand, i can't stress how much i wish Messi was with us. Thats one player i want to see with Juve's jersey.
 
#35 ·
RoBi said:
The only thing i like about Riquelme is his teamwork really. He has a good touch as well but i think we would be better off with a stronger central midfield, and therefore bring in Liverani.

On the other hand, i can't stress how much i wish Messi was with us. Thats one player i want to see with Juve's jersey.
Click to expand...

Messi is most difficult player to buy in this game with Wayne Rooney, Maybe he will new symbol of Barca

simply messi more difficult to get than Ronaldinho
 
#36 ·
RoBi said:
On the other hand, i can't stress how much i wish Messi was with us. Thats one player i want to see with Juve's jersey.
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The player I wish was with us most is Kaka'.

All we can do is dream though. That idiot is going to have us play boring anti-football until he gets the f*ck off our bench.
 
#37 ·
overclass said:
great team.. but I can make more great team

-------------------------Buffon--------------------

Cheillini-------Cannavaro---Gallas/Lugano/Barzagli ---Zambrotta

-------------------Emerson----Vieira---------------

------Mancini------------Roman-----------Cassano------

-----------------------Trezeguet--------------------
Click to expand...
I was gonna say your choice of Chiellini at right back cracks me up, but then I realized that your choice of Chiellini cracks me up PERIOD.

The guy is such a loser I don't know how anybody might not see it. I cross better than him with my left foot, and I'm right-footed and no where near a professional football player. If you watch him closely throughout the matches with Juve you'll find he does much more damage when he goes forward than good, even his throw-ins suck. :dazed:
 
#38 ·
The guy is such a loser I don't know how anybody might not see it. I cross better than him with my left foot, and I'm right-footed and no where near a professional football player. If you watch him closely throughout the matches with Juve you'll find he does much more damage when he goes forward than good, even his throw-ins suck.
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So true. The guy is so overrated it's ridiculous. He just runs around like a headless chicken all the time.
 
#39 ·
I think Riquelme proved a major point at Madrigal against Arsenal.

A player's glaring lack of pace is not a handicap when the said player thinks faster than his opponent and has wonderful ball protection abilities. He may be pressurized a hell of a lot, and he would have a lot of Christiano Zanettis on his arse playing in Serie A, but stealing the ball off him is decidedly a major feat.

All he needs to succeed is movement around him and his slow legs become anecdotical really. Truthfully, he is just as Villarreal dependant than Villarreal are Riquelme dependant.
 
#40 ·
Exactly Steph, and if the club was to get the likes of a Mancini, that would obvisouly help him a lot.

The one thing that cant happen though is isolating Trezeguet upfront. He is useless when played in that type of role. He must have a support striker.
 
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