Ukrainian football vs Russian football

So debate the Russian League vs. the Uke one is here then eh? Look foward to it...I don't know what can be added to what has already been said, but lets go! :hopefull:

Rebrov said:

So debate the Russian League vs. the Uke one is here then eh? Look foward to it...I don't know what can be added to what has already been said, but lets go! :hopefull:

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Hy,Rebrov,lets go.

Btw,what has already been said about this?

Rebrov said:

So debate the Russian League vs. the Uke one is here then eh? Look foward to it...I don't know what can be added to what has already been said, but lets go! :hopefull:

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I dont even want to debate it. Its going to end up with Dema calling one of us "son", and saying we have absolutely no facts to prove what we said when the facts were probably the main part of the article :dielaugh: :rollani: :groan:.

I can see a predict what a reply will look like now p ........


(Dema) - I know some life long "Kiev" fans :scream: and "Kiev" is the only popular team in Ukraine :scream:. "Shakhtyor" is good, but they arent as popular as "Kiev" :scream:. "Shakhtyor" is actually a Russian team :scream:. Oh, and there is lots of "ethnic Russians" playing in Ukraine :scream:

:dielaugh: p Always good to have a joke once in a while.

Oh I remember writting a fair bit in comparing the two leagues, but dont know where I put it...

Well I will say this: Russian league has alot more depth that Ukaine's. And ppl can say Ukraine will surpass Russia etc.etc but in order for that to happen the bar has to be lifted from the bottom, not the top.

Shakhtar and Dynamo are good teams, and look at the top two in Russia - Lokomotiv and CSKA these guys are even teams. So top two from each nation are roughly on the same level. BUT then look at who is at the bottom in Russia now - Rostov, Terek, Alania. These squads I would say are alot better than the bottom-feeders of the Ukrainian league. Right now its a strange situation however with Dnipro, Zakarpattia, Metalurh Z being the bottom three Im sure thats not how it will look if we were 20 games into our league season like Russia is atm.

So obviously there is alot more interest in a league where there is higher competition from the bottom clubs. Which leads me to the next problem in Ukraine which is attendance. Obviously the league will rise in quality if the attendances from clubs went up. Clubs with big fan bases: Dynamo, Shakhtar, Kharkov (Metalist), Dnipro, Karpaty lesser extent Odesa.
Right there you have 6 big cities (despite what Dema claims) who would have no problems pulling big crowds, IF (and a very big IF) there respective cities where successful. This is a proven formula: Shakhtar get 20,000+ for every game, Dynamo's average has also gone up, but as we know with the problems at the club this will be a continuing issue until results come again. Fans want to see a winning team, and a team they can relate too. As a Dynamo fan I would much rather see Rotan playing than El Kaddouri. Like Buriak said, its one of the keys to attendance, a rare time I would agree with the man. The Dynamo of the 80's the All-Ukrainian teams of the past were a bigger hit with the fans, and the attendances are a CLEAR indicator of that fact. Enough about Kyiv though. To further support my case that success brings the crowds no matter what the team (something Roman has also said before). Look at Metalist at the moment? If they keep this run up, the crowds will come like they did against Tavria. Usually they would only show up to see Dynamo or Dnipro someone like that, but if the visit of Tavria brough nearly 15,000 people- the potential is there.

Another team I hope do well is Illichivets. No-one has even mentioned them in these forums. But they have a good team and they have a loyal fan base. They have only had two home games but average 10,000 + and last season when they put together a decent run towards the end they also averaged 10,000. Which isnt bad at all, but then look at the earlier part of the season when they were very inconsistent- they averaged about 5/6, 000. The crowd will come with success and a higher level of competition. Which obviously links back to one thing: money. The russian clubs in midtable and and the lower part of the league are alot better off than that of Ukraine's. ALOT better off. And can spend alot more on players, and developing things like merchandising. Bigger and better stadiums, and a better team means more fans = to good attendances + ticket sales. Down the road if the team contiues to improve obviously bigger fan base, the club can charge more for tickets, sell more merchandise etc etc...

In Ukraine- realistically what is the spending budget of Zakarpattya? You have a team which spends $5,000 on the player's wages. Speaks for itself. the quality isn't there to begin with so who is going to come and see them play? let alone pay to see these players play. All respect to Uzghorod, but the only way to improve is with a huge injection of cash. To build better training facilities attract a higher calibre of players etc etc. What the population of Zakarpattya Oblast? Its around 1,400,000. There is potential for a big fan base there. Plus look at the location, its a prime location; its on the border of the most Western part of Ukraine. There is alot of populaition diversity in the area with Poles, Slokavians, Hungarians and a whole populous who live, and do business in the general area. Here is an ideal scenario for the club. An investor from central Europe decides to buy the team, its not too far-fetched either. What happens- Upgrade the stadium = attendance ^. More on players wages = fans. With all that diversity sign a couple of Polish or Hungarian internationals. Bang- a wider following and not to mention better quality of football. Mighty Zakarpattya now are Uefa Cup regulars, average 14,000+ at their home games and next up is a the tough visit of Mallorca in the round of 32

If every team continues just to do the little things, It will be of great benefit for the whole league. Every team has potential to improve a great amount, although I dont envision huge things for Stal Alchevsk, Arsenal Kyiv, although they will always be finacialy secure and Metlaurh Donestk can be placed in that same boat. The thing is that Ukraine also doesn't have that history that the Russian league has. In the Soviet Union not many Ukrainian teams played on that elite level which was predominantly Russian-club dominated. So with time, (remember the leage is only 15 seasons old) will come better local rivalries and general competition like a Metalurh vs. Shakhtar game in Donetsk, but until then the smaller clubs of Arsenal and Metalurh WILL be in the shadows, and it will directly hinder the club's progress.

But on the positive side, I believe Ukraine has plenty of ponetial in terms of growth also because on the improving situation in the country, and its is well-documented that Ukrainians are becoming alot better off than what they used to be whilst the Russian contiue to grow poorer. Ukrainians will (and have right now on average) more money to spend. More money to spend on football - like that is really a priority :howler: but you see what Im getting at. :smileani:

Also despite all this talk of both leages growing rapidly, we have to also consider a very possible peak. :undecide: Just HOW MUCH better can the top two two from each country get? I don't think that their progress, expect Shakhtar's new stadium, has as much potenial for growth as the lower part of the league does. Like I claim - its all about the depth, and the leagues have to be stregthened from the bottom. Its all good and well for Shakhtar or Lokomotiv to keep walking out on the field and beating teams 4:0 but how can you sell that to a wider audience?

Build from the bottom. The FFU has recognised the problems which have been apparent for quite some time, and that is the impact of foregeiners. With more Ukrainians, or at least a better ratio of in the bigger clubs the domestic talent will grow in quality- no doubt. And if the average clubs are to do all the little things correctly and improve we will see a better league each year. Take even our cellar-dwellers right now at Zaporizhya - guess what? NEW STADIUM. It looks like it will be quite nice, and they already have a good team there, with a decent youth squad. Also they have just recenlty hired a top-quality Ukrainian coach, I hope for their sake their pick up their game and put up another mid-table effort. It takes only a few good men, to do great things. Take for example Alexandr Poliuk, the former Mayer of Zaporizhya who initiated the building of the new ground. I believe in the growth of the Ukrainian league, because I have faith that there are good people in Ukraine to guide the country to better times, not in football but as a nation. Football comes second in that respect.

So to summarize; there is promise, but there have to be certain small steps which have to continually be taken, along with big strides which will push the Ukrainian league to that higher level. Ofcourse in time, these big strides that I'm taking about will hopefully become the essentials for every club so we can become a better footballing nation.

I can go on and on, but there are just some opinions I liked to put forward...

Regarding my last post;

here are some pictures (early-to middle stage of construction) on that new Stadium that Zapor are building. It will be named in the honor of the mayer, Alexandr Poliuk.

http://www.fcmetalurg.com/img/stadium/south.jpg

http://www.fcmetalurg.com/img/stadium/west2.jpg

http://www.fcmetalurg.com/img/stadium/west3.jpg

http://www.fcmetalurg.com/img/stadium/nord2.jpg

My guess is that it will seat around 25,000 people. And should be quite a nice looking ground, I think i might have seen the final design sketch some time ago, so if i find it I'll post it up. This new stadium will be ALOT better than where they are playing now. That's an understatement. :thumbsup:

Rebrov, another manuscript?
You might want to add them all in a portfolio and send them out to the PFL, Surkis, Akhmetov etc...
Who knows, maybe you can change the future of Ukrainian football :tongue:
Other than that i have nothing to add to that :neutral:

Except, have you heard that ex-Milan striker George Weah could become the next Liberian PRESIDENT...?
According to Gazeta.ru, Weah is one of the most popular persona in Liberia and has very good chances of winning the presidency race...

P.S. Andriy Shevchenko - Ukrainian President 2012????????? :thmbup:

kleber said:

So Rebrov,your post about Russia/ukraine league is very good,btw i make a ranking of the teams ,here we go:

1-Lokomotiv
2-cska
3-dynamo kyiv
4-Shakhtar
5-zenit
6-spartak
7-dynamo moscow
8-fk moskva
9-dnipro
10-m.donetsk
11-torpedo
12-rubin kazan
13-krylya samara
14-saturn
15-chornomorets odessa
16-alania vladikavkaz

What do you think guys?

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Where are Karpaty??? :nono:

Roman said:

Where are Karpaty??? :nono:

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Do you realy think that Krapaty is better than any of these teams?

Btw,you guys won the soviet union cup in 69,right or it was Metalist in these,and you guys in 88,i am confused,but i think it was in 1969.
Congrats,btw.Hope that you guys return to the top league these year.

kleber said:

So Rebrov,your post about Russia/ukraine league is very good,btw i make a ranking of the teams ,here we go:

1-Lokomotiv
2-cska
3-dynamo kyiv
4-Shakhtar
5-zenit
6-spartak
7-dynamo moscow
8-fk moskva
9-dnipro
10-m.donetsk
11-torpedo
12-rubin kazan
13-krylya samara
14-saturn
15-chornomorets odessa
16-alania vladikavkaz

What do you think guys?

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I think its possibly the only rankings ive seen worse then the fifa rankings p

True-Kozak said:

I think its possibly the only rankings ive seen worse then the fifa rankings p

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Tk,True Kozak :thumbsup: :tongue:.

So what is your ranking,what changes will you do? try to be fair please! :shades:

True-Kozak said:

Do you mean our Canadian cities, or Ukrainian ones? I know in my Ukrainian one (Ternopil) there was alot of rallies. Everyday, all day. Like a mini maidan. My family there sent us a big "TAK!YUSCHENKO!" flag, to this day it still hangs up in my room. I remember they phoned after those bastards falsified the elections for the second time, and "Killed by an egg" ( :dielaugh: :dielaugh: :dielaugh: :dielaugh: If you dont know why I call him this, ask, :dielaugh: :dielaugh: :dielaugh: ) was declared the winner, and did nothign but cry, sob, moan, curse, and cry somemore..real sad times :frownani: .

About my Canadian city, cambridge, theres was nothing here. But its a smaller city. I know there was 5/6 good rallies in Toronto. I went to one, right outside the katsap embassy . We taped Ukrainian flags to the building and fences, played pro Yuschenko songs, told them to get the f*ck out of Ukraine and mind there own business, and much, much more that just incase there is younger viewers of this forum I will not say . I also remember, a hockey game, OHL all stars vs Russian all stars (for juniors) in Toronto. Me and about 30/40 other Ukis went and cheered Canada, with alot of Orange flags and Tak Yuschenko flags. We were in the arena maybe 1 hour before game time, there wasnt many ppl there yet. Then about 800 Russians came, and sat all around us :googly:. They cursed things at us, and threw a few things at us. At first, we were outnumbered badly - But then, the average Canadian started helping us, telling the russkiis they were for Yushchenko, etc :thumbsup:. It didnt matter though, it seemed instead of cheering on russia during the game they shouted anti Ukrainian chants. Quite classy peopel indeed .

But, in the end - They shut up, when Ontario (a province in canada) raped russia, something like 7-1 roud: :dielaugh: . The russian fans continued to yell things at some of us when we were leaving, but all we said was " 7-1" .

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We also beat Russia 7-1 :tongue: :shades: .

Rebrov said:

It doesn't have to be like that Roman. You will change all that...

I wrote just before it takes only a few good people to make a whole great of good, but I just spoke to a relative (who will be going to the Israel game actually) and he is in a very technical line of work. Designing systems for various machinery. Atm he is working of developing some new navigation technology for an exlusively all-Ukrainian-design of war airplanes. More to the point:
He says there are many problems like the exodus of talented people from the country, that alot of people in his line of work and other essential fields are choosing to leave, and thats a big problem in terms of the development of the country.

Some are actually also coming back, but there is a big generation gap also which is a problem. The age group of 25-40, so the prime of the workforce is a heavly under-populated and obviously the industry suffers because of it. Ukraine has to lift its standards of life, and has to open stronger ties with Western Europe, something our president is trying to do.
However, even with Yuschenko, who is a good man by all accounts, is having problems of implamenting his ideas and goals because there is heavly sabotage, and he is constantly undermined by others especially by those from Eastern Ukraine, and those influences from Russia :depress: ...

We need alot more good people, but not only in football, because only a few bad apples can ruin the whole basket so to speak...

Who knows if the situation ever improves to a level that would surfice for me personally, I might go back there...I don't think I would live in Kyiv again though. Would anyone consider of going back? (And take over the FFU positions :tongue: ?)

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There is absolutely no doubt in my mind I will go back. I want to play on the Ukrainian national team one day, but for Hockey :tongue: :shades:. I want to live in L'viv, untill the russian in Kyiv dies down more, which should be in 10/15 years :thumbsup:. Yuschenko is facing alot of problems, yes. But it takes time. I know many people, most from Ternopil :tongue:, who have better salaries, lifestyle, etc, since Yuschenko won. We were actually trying to help a few people get out of Ukraine and come to Canada. A few months ago, they said stop - They are happy in Ukraine, they dont need to leave roud: :thumbsup:. Of course, success stories like this are not everywhere. It will take 4/5 years before there is noticeable changes, and 3 years or so before most of the population starts to feel some change :thumbsup:. One thing Im happy about ,is that Ukraine could potentially start buying its gas from Azerbaijan and Georgia, which will be good for all 3 of our countries. That way, Russia loses alot of power over the Ukrainian economy ; And if they want to tripel gas prices again, for no apparent reason, it wont matter :finger: :finger: :finger:

So,True- Kozak,i am waiting for your ranking. :shades: :tongue:

True-Kozak said:

Viva Portugal . Now, beat them 7-1 in Moscow, and Ill buy a Portuguese jersey, scarf, hat, and sing the anthem every night before I go to bed :happy: :shades: .

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Viva Portugal,very nice Kozak .
And why do you not change your nationality to portuguese if Portugal wins 7-1 in Moscow p

kleber said:

Viva Portugal,very nice Kozak .
And why do you not change your nationality to portuguese if Portugal wins 7-1 in Moscow p

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Common kleber. I cant turn Portuguese :nono: . If Portugal did win 7-1 in Moscow though, I would put Portugal in my signature and favourite clubs :thmbup: