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#21 · (Edited)
Glen said:
I trust you know what I mean :D .

If there's a plan to improve Milan's finances, it should hardly be one that see's you take a big loss even when you have a sucessfull season and arrives in the CL final, and haven't added many big transfers.

Anyway - we all know your deficit doesn't reallly matter.

NB: Aca :howler:
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The days when Juve had 9 Italy NT player plus Boniek and Platini are over, since the institution of the CL we've won it 6 times compared to the 2 that Juve have won, despite the Agnelli family were firmly controlling the Turin based club. Despite Juve where dominat through the 70's and 80,s in Italy, they somewhat always failed to gain success in Europe as their status would suggest. As Juve had and still has an incredible amount of supporters, that translated in ecomomical terms mean Euro's, since the arrival of Berlusca at the head of A.C. Milan, silverware wise we've achieved the impossible :star: the gap, supporter wise, has considerably closed down, even if to the opposite of what a number or surveys have documented to their best Milan has more fans worldwide than Juve, in Italy we still have work to do. Fans mean money, closing down even further the gap is a moral duty :stuckup: cause the day Berlusca will no longer be on top of the board, he will have achieved 2 main goals.
Adding Champion's Leagues to the ones we won prior to his arrival as a number of teams have either failed or altogether never even had the opportunity even in their most glorious days :proud:
A huge fan base :heart:
These 2 great achievements combined should eventually allow Milan to look at the future with confidence :hopefull:
 
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#22 ·
Diavolo: What? Really... how does this relate to anything I wrote?






Your financial deficit has very little to do with history. Your turnover, when doing well in CL, matches ours. The only reason is that you are currently spending more than 40 million euro more than us on player wages a season.

That's a choice of Berlusconi's, and it's all good and well since he pays the bills. Same way Abramovich can keep on buying whoever he wants despite Chelsea operating with huge losses.

I was merely commenting on the tread title which many people think will go to pay for transfers, or is somehow out of the ordinary. It isn't. I happens every year. The amount on the cheque being higher or lower relative to how much you lost during the year.
 
#26 ·
Milan is owned by Fininvest (which is owned by Berlusconi) which owns many other companies like the television channels. That means a financial loss for Milan results in lower profits for Fininvest. Lower profits means lower taxes. If the corporate tax rate is around 50% then a 25 mil loss results in a 12.5 mil lower tax for Fininvest. So any money that Berlusconi puts into Milan, he gets back around half of it in the form of a lower tax bill.
 
#27 ·
Glen said:
Diavolo: What? Really... how does this relate to anything I wrote?

.
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I was answering to this line you wrote in particular:

NB: Aca :howler:
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Regardless of the fact we were a very wealthy club or not, yesterday as today we have a winning history in Europe.
Bono had described it as DNA :star:

Furtermore, in order to close the gap here in Italy, supporter wise, Milan's policy in the last couple of decades, has been focused in keeping our stars, and when possible signing great players. In particular, keeping our most valuable players, will payoff in the long run, since an incredible amount of youngsters are becomming Milan fans, as Galliani pointed out yesterday. Fans mean cash, as you know Juve are granted great sponsor deals here in Italy due to the number of fans they have.
The combination of keeping our key players, unlike during ou Serie B days, silverware and great signings, should assure us a great future :hopefull: just like when Juve had 9 Italy NT players, Boniek and Platini :)
 
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#28 ·
OK.... all that was really your answer to a smiley of mine, an indication that I found another posters comment funny (and not without thruth btw.):D ? That's impressive indeed. Let's see how much you'll write that deals with actual arguments of mine :tongue: .

Because I must ask something, as I'm slightly puzzled with some of your above argumentation.

You say that you have a winning history in Europe, regardless of money.

I believe Milan won two CC thropies in the 60s in the Rivera era. I also believe Milan was quite a powerful club compared to most competition back then (when everything was completely different compared to todays "money rule all" situation).
Quite obviously, such success should not be forgotten :star:, but afterall, this rich CC/CL past of yours consist of reaching three finals in the first 33 years of the tournaments existance winning two of them inside the same decade (very good of course, but hardly something that testifies to the grand DNA design some speak off here - Nottingham Forest won two in the 70s... is there some particular club DNA at work here too, or did they just have a good team those years? Hey - even INTER the PERDENTI GALORE!!! won two trophies in the 60s. You would be hard pressed to suggest they have the winning DNA, no?).

What has happened after Berlusconi took over, in an age with much more competition, is quite astounding though. In the past 16 years you've been in six finals, winning four of them, often making late runs into the tournament also when you weren't winning it :star: . Now THAT is dominance! :strong: I think everyone has to ignolledge that the strongest club during the CL age has been Milan. Real Madrid dominated a spell of five years getting three trophies, and Juventus has been up there are the final hurdle alot, but MILAN has dominated.

It stands to reason, I think, that the money aspect is not unimportant, as in this period of time, there hasn't been a team that was more financially powerful than Berlusconi's Milan. Now - you can say that Chelsea for instance are, because Abramovich spends more on transfers, but still Milan can fight with everyone also on the money score. All it takes is for Berlusconi to decide to spend.
This "better than tradition" image is rather visible also on the scudetto front of course.

Milan has won 17 scudetti of the 102 scudetti that have been fought over from 1898 to today. 10 of these were won from 1898 to 1986 where Berlusconi took over. That's 10 of 82 scudeetti (remembering the WW cancellations), or a 12% success rate if you will.

Under the Presidency of Silvio, you've won seven out of 19 possible scudetti. That's a successrate of 37%. A bit of a difference compared to the rest of your still impressive history, surely.


So... I'm puzzled when you indicate that keeping star players is sort of a strategy to get more fans? I thought it was a strategy to win, having the best possible team always improve your chances of doing so - which always brings fans too.


As such - perhaps your DNA thing IS really connected to spending money, because great champions cost money and wins you stuff. Therefore - when Berlusconi writes an annual cheque to make it possible to have the largest wage bill in world football, perhaps he is thereby inducing just the needed component to keep Milan's extraordinary success going :star: ?


Nothing wrong with that btw. It's obvioulsy the same reasons that see Juventus remain a successfull team. I wouldn't dream of criticising that.

Even if Juventus has certainly been much more successfull in Europe since the triad came in (really - our CC/CL record was pitiful before that), and the Agnelli's (after numerous sugar daddy years) stopped doing what Berlusconi does for you now, I don't think there's a Juventus fan outthere who wouldn't like a sugar daddy writing a cheque once in a while so that a great champion could arrive without us looking at the budget. Still - of course, no complaints, because our finances are rather strong as it is, and we can rival you even with Berlusconi's tax deductable donations :).
 
#29 ·
I know there's a point in there somewhere Glen, but I choose to ignore it because to think of it is to have to regard you some kind of well-spoken moron.

Berlusconi is merely 20 years the later than Agnelli. If that's unfair...
 
#33 ·
i tend to agree with glen here.


actually i am a bit disappointed at the management of the club. in the last 20 years we are arguably the most successful club(result wise) in italy, probably in europe too. But if you look at the finance of the club, it's years of deficit after deficit. The worst part is that, the deficit is an operational one, which means the wages etc. expense has been out of control over the years and never solved.


it's irritating to think of that, juve, although having roughly the equally good squad with us, spent MUCH less wages than we do. Inter, although wasting millions after millions in the transfer market, while we buy mainly BOSMAN players, we still manage to have roughly the same amont of debt as Inter every season.



I think Milan should at least look at how Man Utd and Juve run the management side of their clubs. They may not be a club to follow on the pitch, but commerically they are great example to follow. These two clubs are having great REVENUE even when they are winning nothing.(like Man Utd this season). Their finance doesn't depend on the performance of the team, thus ensuring stable fiscal condition(look at Leeds, Lazio, Fiorentina, they are failures).
 
#34 ·
Politician said:
No, you happen to just like harping on it :D
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For one reason, and one reason only.

Many here like to make Milan appear "special" compared to other teams. The truth is that you have a great club, which is a dominant force in the Berlusconi era predominantly because of money/power. The same reason other great teams/clubs have dominated their eras. Certainly the same goes for Juventus, but if a destinction should be made about the comparative success of Milan and Juve in Europe - we have never been as powerfull financially compared to our European rivals as Milan were in the late 80s early 90s. Never.

In Italy - most certainly so, and that is by FAR the biggest reason we've won as much as we have.
 
#35 ·
Elephant King said:
i tend to agree with glen here.
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I'm sorry, but I don't think you do :D .
You say you would like Milan to do better financially. I say the main reason you've done so during Berlusconi's Presidency is that you don't have to worry about this at all. It is completely besides the point if you have a deficit or not if Berlusconi is happy to finance it in order for Milan to be able to win titles.

Thus - it's not DNA. It is financial power and a collection of great players, playing in a great stadium with great fans. Nothing else to it.
 
#36 ·
Glen I think you're just a little obsessed with Bono's little theory, certainly far more than our loveable Descarte-quoting Bulgarian friend :D Milan values the CL far more than Juventus, and Juventus goes for the Scudetto as its primary sporting objective and a good money-spinning run in the CL.

Elephant King, Milan isn't run like a company because it is an Italian football club. That's really all you need to know and understand. Agnelli more or less started it by bankrolling Juventus back in the 70s, and now personal vainglory makes every self-made Italian multimillionaire want to own a football team, even if there is no hope in hell of them returning a profit. Silvio is the same, only on a bigger scale to the usual toymakers and cobblers.
 
#37 ·
Glen said:
Many here like to make Milan appear "special" compared to other teams.
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I doubt it's just the money, there's just something unique about this particular collection of players. Milan is the fashion capital and we are the most stylish club. Juve are simply result-oriented. They seem to care more about the end than the means. Milan is unique because we have a team that is both balanced and flamboyant. We are not just cynical and super-efficient like some other clubs...
 
#38 ·
aca said:
This thread should be renamed to Injection of DNA :D
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Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, today we are all humbled by this superb, timeless and simply adroit piece of snipping. People across the globe who make fun of Milan, stand and salute you aca. It is a privilege to serve along side you in our noble quest to ridicule Bonoean Theory.

You are a giant among mortals.
 
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#39 ·
Politician said:
Glen I think you're just a little obsessed with Bono's little theory, certainly far more than our loveable Descarte-quoting Bulgarian friend :D
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I'm having fun exposing it. It's like battering rotten fruit with a baseball bat - and EASY to boot :D .
Certainly, lots of Milan fans on this very board are fond of talking about this theory, and destinguishing Milan from other clubs on the back of it (or through comments to that same effect). Opponent fans having a laugh in the face of this obstinance can HARDLY be deemed surprising :howler: .

Politician said:
Milan values the CL far more than Juventus, and Juventus goes for the Scudetto as its primary sporting objective and a good money-spinning run in the CL.
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Perhaps in the past where Silvio was quicker to spot the commercial value compared to us. Certainly not now. It's a tired cliché. The CL is the most important trophee for any and all truly big teams, simply because this is where the big money, fame and marketing opportunities are in todays football.
The rest is just platitudes making yourself look good, such as when Juve officials talk about getting the third star, because it underlines how successfull we are on that score. The scudetto is very important of course, but noone would not choose the CL if possible, and it's what all Juve players and coaches have said for years before the season.
Not even Inter would choose lo scudetto even if they REALLY, REALLY need to win it :).
 
#40 ·
:pp

although Glen, you & few others do pretty good job too. Most of the things Glen said in this thread i already went through in another thread (not in so many words, i have to admit:D)

The difference being that Glen is an "educator" that believes that if you repeat that 1+1=2 enough times, PPL will understand.:D I gave up on that notion long time ago, hence....... :jester: :tongue:
 
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