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Ranking of following managers?

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cagane

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'd like to hear out how you'd rank these managers;
(not for a specific criteria but overall)

Sir Alex Ferguson
Ottmar Hitzfeld
Jupp Heynckes
Jürgen Klopp
Joachim Löw
Marcello Lippi
Fabio Capello
Carlo Ancelotti
Giovanni Trapattoni
Arrigo Sacchi
Jose Mourinho
Louis van Gaal
Guus Hiddink
Vicente del Bosque
Josep Guardiola
Rafael Benitez
Arsene Wenger
Diego Simeone
 
#2 ·
It is almost impossible to rate managers, since we do not see them directly at work. We only see their players, and it's hard to tell the manager's influence on a team.
However, I would say:

1. Alex Ferguson
2. Ottmar Hitzfeld
3. Pep Guardiola
4. Marcello Lippi
5. José Mourinho
6. Vicente del Bosque

In the future, Guardiola can overcome Hitzfeld or even Ferguson, and Simeone can go higher.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Heretofore Guardiola has coached two teams: the first one could be coached by club charwoman as well, the second one was a machine to win which could dominate whole Europe for years until Pep killed their greatest advantages. He can't be compared to Trapattoni, Capello, Hiddink or Ferguson who pulled their teams out the problems many times.
 
#4 ·
1. Ernst Happel
2. Bob Paisley
3. Pep
4. Udo Latek
5. Diego Simeone
6. Sir Chewing Gum
7. Mou
8. Carlos Bianchi
9. Roberto Scarone
10. Vicente Del Bosque

Special mentions:
Franz Beckenbauer, Bora Milutinovic, Carlos Alberto Parreira
 
#7 ·
thenewapollo said:
1. Ernst Happel
2. Bob Paisley
3. Pep
4. Udo Latek
5. Diego Simeone
6. Sir Chewing Gum
7. Mou
8. Carlos Bianchi
9. Roberto Scarone
10. Vicente Del Bosque

Special mentions:
Franz Beckenbauer, Bora Milutinovic, Carlos Alberto Parreira
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You are right! We forgot about Ernst Happel. One of the greatest ever for sure, in my opinion.
I did not know Roberto Scarone. I just checked his trophy list and it is amazing. Is he related to Héctor Scarone?
 
#8 ·
Liddas said:
You are right! We forgot about Ernst Happel. One of the greatest ever for sure, in my opinion.
I did not know Roberto Scarone. I just checked his trophy list and it is amazing. Is he related to Héctor Scarone?
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there is no relation. hector did have an older brother named carlos, who also kicked ass with nacional.

one trainer i don't know much about is rudolf illovszky. maybe kajoo or someone else can voice if he should be on our lists aswell.
 
#9 · (Edited)
1. Rinus Michels
2. Helenio Herrera
3. Alex Ferguson
4. Ernst Happel
5. Giovanni Trapattoni
6. Valeriy Lobanovskyi
7. Fabio Capello
8. Bob Paisley
9. José Mourinho
10. Udo Lattek
11. Arrigo Sacchi
12. Marcello Lippi
13. Herbert Chapman
14. Ottmar Hitzfeld
15. Matt Busby

Pep could be taken into account if he attained anything in England and didn't balls up like he did in Munich. Simeone in all-time top 10 is a joke.
 
#10 ·
lefebvre said:
1. Rinus Michels
2. Helenio Herrera
3. Alex Ferguson
4. Ernst Happel
5. Giovanni Trapattoni
6. Valeriy Lobanovskyi
7. Fabio Capello
8. Bob Paisley
9. José Mourinho
10. Udo Lattek
11. Arrigo Sacchi
12. Marcello Lippi
13. Herbert Chapman
14. Ottmar Hitzfeld
15. Matt Busby

Pep could be taken into account if he attained anything in England and didn't balls up like he did in Munich. Simeone in all-time top 10 is a joke.
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michels and herrera have cruijff and suarez to thank for most of their success. ajax and inter were both reaching european finals without the staff but not without those players.
in 1974 it was cruijff who determined the selection, not michels. the best gk and the best amc in the country were excluded because of cruijff. even when a half-fit rensenbrink selfishly imposed to be selected for the final michels lacked the authority. heck, ruud geels was abused by krol and suurbier and michels didn't do shit.

about simeone, what exactly did he do wrong for not belonging to the top? he for sure has shown he's not dependent on certain star players.
 
#11 ·
thenewapollo said:
i think he's special as an nt coach. don't you? how easy do you reckon it is getting 3 middle eastern countries to the worldcup?
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i say he is historical. special? definitly no. he always said that he was more of a pyschio trainer that became a manager, than a manager per say.

his tactics were always very basic and conservative, making ihs teams always very predicatable. with the amount of talent he had, he could have exiceted much more people, being in 1983 (copa america) , 1994 or 2006 build ups
 
#12 ·
thenewapollo said:
michels and herrera have cruijff and suarez to thank for most of their success
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Lol. So what about Pep on 3rd place on your list? :palm:

Herrera and Michels were visionaries who revolutionized football. They built their own philosophies which had strong impact on the future.

thenewapollo said:
about simeone, what exactly did he do wrong for not belonging to the top?
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Choosing the best managers is not about choosing the one who made the least mistakes but the one who made the most good things. Placing Simeone over Michels or Herrera is ridiculous.
What exactly did Zidane do wrong as a manager? So let's place him in the top3.
 
#13 ·
lefebvre said:
Lol. So what about Pep on 3rd place on your list? :palm:

Herrera and Michels were visionaries who revolutionized football. They built their own philosophies which had strong impact on the future.



Choosing the best managers is not about choosing the one who made the least mistakes but the one who made the most good things. Placing Simeone over Michels or Herrera is ridiculous.
What exactly did Zidane do wrong as a manager? So let's place him in the top3.
Click to expand...
pep has done well without messi, if that's what you're referring to? but with messi he has also done better than others, enrique being the exception. please do expect pep to drop down my list if he fails elsewhere.
but i can understand that you weigh achievements higher than mistakes to make things more permanent. many here agree with this type of rating.
for me personally the player or manager that performs better is the best, no matter the trophy case.
e.g. statements like "messi has surpassed x player" i find odd as messi's level of play isn't getting any better.

but just to double check, so if a manager has enjoyed the service of the best player on the continent would that not be something to consider on how grand his achievements really are?
 
#16 ·
I think that sometimes Guardiola's spell at Bayern has been unfairly considered. Yes, he did not get the Champions League in the first two years, but Bayern got to the semifinals both seasons and lost against the team that would become champion. Also, they played excellent possession-based football and become one of the 2-3 most attractive teams to watch in Europe (this is just a personal opinion, I know).
Regarding the Bundesliga, I admit that it is not the most competitive league, but Bayern had not won more than 3 titles in a row before (ever!) and during Guardiola's spell they did it and also broke some records (points, goals scored, etc.).
If you consider these three seasons together with the previous 4 at Barcelona, I honestly consider it an excellent career so far.
If I had to point out a weak point in Guardiola's work, I would remark that many times his sides get to the end of the season in a poorer shape -compared with the initial months- and with a lot of injured players.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Guardiola took all-star Bayern at their best moment. They had been playing rapidly, perfectly. They had killed Barcelona and had potential to dominate Europe. Then Pep implemented his philosophy and next year Bayern had problems with mediocre Arsenal and MU in crisis and finally was grinded up by Real. Guardiola didn't react when his players were being humiliated because he didn't have any ideas, any alternative. His philosophy failed.
After a month the same players (but in different tactics) were uncontestedly the best on the World Cup.

This 'excellent possession-based football' is enough to thrash Augsburg or Hoffenheim but not to be in all-time top of managers.
 
#18 ·
lefebvre said:
Guardiola took all-star Bayern at their best moment. They had been playing rapidly, perfectly. They had killed Barcelona and had potential to dominate Europe. Then Pep implemented his philosophy and next year Bayern had problems with mediocre Arsenal and MU in crisis and finally was grinded up by Real. Guardiola didn't react when his players were being humiliated because he didn't have any ideas, any alternative. His philosophy failed.
After a month the same players (but in different tactics) were uncontestedly the best on the World Cup.

This 'excellent possession-based football' is enough to thrash Augsburg or Hoffenheim but not to be in all-time top of managers.
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Your point is very good, I admit, but I honestly don't think there is a direct link between Guardiola arriving at Bayern, the change of tactics and the club not winning their second European Cup in a row. No team has won 2 European Cups in a row since 1990, so I would not blame Guardiola for it. The team remained very competitive after Heynckes's success and departure.
I also don't believe that Germany's World Cup success should be a proof of Guardiola's failure, either. It is a whole different competition with different contenders.
Real Madrid and Barcelona were better than Bayern in both semifinals, of course. But my point is that that is not enough to consider Guardiola's spell a failure. Ferguson, Herrera, Hitzfeld, Capello, Lippi, Michels...all of them had trophyless seasons with top clubs.
 
#19 ·
Liddas said:
I honestly don't think there is a direct link between Guardiola arriving at Bayern, the change of tactics and the club not winning their second European Cup in a row
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But this is not my opinion, this is a fact. Guardiola's arrival -> change of tactics from Heynckes's style to tiki-taka (it's obvious, difference between Heynckes's and Guardiola's styles is clearly visible) -> Bayern starts to play worse and defeat in CL.

Liddas said:
Ferguson, Herrera, Hitzfeld, Capello, Lippi, Michels...all of them had trophyless seasons with top clubs.
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Heh, this is the difference. Capello, Ferguson or Lippi fell a few times but always arose. They were thinking, they were flexible and had backup plans.
Second thing is seniority. Nobody thought Capello is the best after a couple of years. Let Guardiola work with middle-table team or national team in troubles, let him pull them out the problems, fix it and then rate him. If he proves himself open-minded and flexible, we will consider him as one of the top managers.

Herrera and Michels are part of another story. Their greatness is not only the case of trophies. They also triggered the revolutions and inspired many other coaches.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Not winning UCL with this Bayern? Can happen.
Getting humiliated twice in a row? Yeah, that's the definition of failure.

- Bayern managed to reach UCL Final twice in a row before Guardiola's arrival. So, I'd hardly call reaching b2b semi-finals is an achievement.
- Bayern humiliated Barcelona in 2013. And got humiliated while playing like Barcelona thanks to Guardiola. And they got humiliated the new Barcelona which play considerably different than his own spell at there.
- Also Guardiola failed to score first 3 of those 4 games while conceding 8.

I like Bayern and I'm nearly a fan. That's why I'd like to see them at the top of Europe once again. But I still have my doubts about Guardiola pulling it off in 2016.
 
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