Has the myth of Messi being "NT choker" been destroyed once and for all?

jamesbh11 · Jul 8, 2015

TorontoCalabria said:
Is Messi a choker? or has he simply choked to the standard of being number 1 all time which he clearly is not.

I don't see how you can blame one player for a team and football culture that constantly chokes.

My guess is that they would have 1 CL 2 LaLigas and would have been dismantled.

well I never considered him being or even close to #1 all time.

I do not know about other's, but for me I did NOT blame him for Argentina lost (WC to Copa) , but ... his OWN FAILURE to repeat his magic that we have seen week in week out under Barca shirt!

Messi was still good to very good for Argentina in WC to Copa, but "the term Good or Very Good" do not seem fit his "talent" and his "fame" that well.

Forget Pele (or Maradona) ..even being compared to some other top10 or top20 all times, he was worse in term of big games for his countries ...

For example,

1- Puskas Cruyff Eusebio Platini Zico Baggio Rummenigge ... never won WC (and/or Euro/Copa) but NEVER we seen anyone called them CHOKED ever ,,,

2- In other hand (outside TOP20) some great names did SHINE in big tourney despite of their "weak" supporting cast (or not that strong NT) i.e. from Cubillas 70, Lato 74 to Roger Mila 90, Stoitchkov, Hagi, Brolin in 94, Suker 98 and ... lately James for Colombia 2014!
Ironically, many (including me) would easily spot out that Messi was simply better than all of the above (in #2 case)

jamesbh11 · Jul 8, 2015

My final words here: Mesi was not choked.
however we had not yet seen a "real Messi-ah" in Agrentina shirt ever ... (or did we?)

Messi was great in WC youth but that was way before his "Messi-ah" (from 2010-14)

Firdaus · Jul 8, 2015

Didn't realize james joined in 2009.

You only made an impact recently. I guess you could say you were like Messi for the Argentina NT.

Andy Christ · Jul 8, 2015

except that he's not going to win any MVP awards here

jamesbh11 · Jul 9, 2015

Andy Christ said:
except that he's not going to win any MVP awards here

there is no Adidas nor cocacola here :crybaby:

and too bad I do not wear ADIDAS (but NIKE) nor I drink coke (but Beers LOL)

jamesbh11 · Jul 9, 2015

Firdaus said:
Didn't realize james joined in 2009.

You only made an impact recently. I guess you could say you were like Messi for the Argentina NT.

Thanks ... I took it as a compliment :lick: (not many can be comparable to Messi :excited: )

DancingTraitor · Jul 9, 2015

Andy Christ said:
Having won both the World Cup 2014 and Copa America 2015 MVP*, surely there's now no doubt that he is CLUTCH PERFORMER both at club and international level?

In fact I can't even remember when was the last time somebody won MVP awards in two international tournaments in a row.

*Messi won the award but rejected it...very gentleman behavior :thmbup:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-refuses-best-player-award-at-Copa-America-as-trophy-removed-from-ceremony.html

There are 5 player who have won World Cup Golden Ball and Copa America MVP/ Euro best player.

Jose Nasazzi (uru) WC30, CA23/35
Pele (bra) WC70, CA59-1
Ronaldo (bra) WC98, CA97
Zidane (fra) WC06, Euro98
Messi (arg) WC14, CA15

Only Nasazzi, Ronaldo and Messi won it in row.

645 · Jul 9, 2015

dancing traitor

these mvps count for nothing

what actually matters is the trophy itself.

nobody counts MVP's

Andy Christ · Jul 9, 2015

In Nasazzi's case "in a row" is debatable as there was this huge gap of five years between WC1930 and CA1935 (as for some reason there was a long break in Copa America history).

So only R9 and Messi have done it 2 years in a row.

Andy Christ · Jul 9, 2015

Ze da Fiel said:
dancing traitor

these mvps count for nothing

what actually matters is the trophy itself.

nobody counts MVP's

I am counting them :lala:

645 · Jul 9, 2015

Andy Christ said:
I am counting them :lala:

who cares? :musik:

pele10brazil · Jul 9, 2015

Ze da Fiel said:
dancing traitor

these mvps count for nothing

what actually matters is the trophy itself.

nobody counts MVP's

Especially when no one agree to them :thmbup:

jamesbh11 · Jul 12, 2015

Andy Christ said:
I am counting them :lala:

Did Messi really get the COPA15 best player? yet you counted justlike Dancing traitor?

let along the discussion of being deserved or not

pele10brazil · Jul 12, 2015

jamesbh11 said:
Did Messi really get the COPA15 best player? yet you counted justlike Dancing traitor?

let along the discussion of being deserved or not

Yes but he refused it like a good.boy coz even he knew he had no business eith being the Mvp :musik: Smart move :thmbup:

jamesbh11 · Jul 12, 2015

pele10brazil said:
Yes but he refused it like a good.boy coz even he knew he had no business eith being the Mvp :musik: Smart move :thmbup:

well it was just a RUMOR by Media guessing.
Lastly he refused it (?) = he did not have it

In other thread (copa) I did say: I paid full respect for Messi's decision (if it's true)

It was a great gesture with clear dignity of Messi yes

msioux75 · Jul 13, 2015

I shall give some spice, here!

In the prime years of Messi:
* At club level, Barcelona had been a top-5 side
* At country level, Argentina had been a top-5 side

Both a top-5 in results and supporting cast in their club/country category.

What's the difference concerning Messi performance?

jamesbh11 · Jul 14, 2015

msioux75 said:
I shall give some spice, here!

In the prime years of Messi:
* At club level, Barcelona had been a top-5 side
* At country level, Argentina had been a top-5 side

Both a top-5 in results and supporting cast in their club/country category.

What's the difference concerning Messi performance?

To be fair:
Barca were average a #1 mostly or TOP3 teams in the world

Argentina were average around 5 or 6 of say middle of TOP10 best teams in the world!

There is a difference between two team (relatively to their leagues or NT) but not that much! For example France now are outside of TOP10, but they could very possibly win over Argentina or Germany as TOP2.

Rule of thumb: All WC winners in history were in TOP10 in that year they won and >80% were in TOP5

Only a few cases like Argentina86, France98 , Itlay06 were betwenn 6 to 9

ozora · Jul 18, 2015

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Maradona-Copa-America-failure-questions-Barcelona-star-Argentinian-Swedish.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-best-player-and-won-Golden-Ball-for-marketing-reasons-says-Diego-Maradona.html
The power of marketing

ozora · Jul 18, 2015

msioux75 said:
I shall give some spice, here!

In the prime years of Messi:
* At club level, Barcelona had been a top-5 side
* At country level, Argentina had been a top-5 side

Both a top-5 in results and supporting cast in their club/country category.

What's the difference concerning Messi performance?

At NT level,in America,Brazil is much weaker than themself.
Several teams in Europe are weaker than themself,too(Italy,England,Holland,Portugal,France,Greece...)
So no doubt Argentina is on top

msioux75 · Jul 18, 2015

ozora said:
At NT level,in America,Brazil is much weaker than themself.
Several teams in Europe are weaker than themself,too(Italy,England,Holland,Portugal,France,Greece...)
So no doubt Argentina is on top

So, you think that in recent years (on paper) win a WC/CA tournament with Argentina is easier than win a Champions/La Liga with Barcelona.

Due to opposing teams level for countries and clubs respectively, besides the top quality of his side in its own category.

Has the myth of Messi being "NT choker" been destroyed once and for all?

jamesbh11

jamesbh11

Firdaus

Andy Christ

jamesbh11

jamesbh11

DancingTraitor

645

Andy Christ

Andy Christ

645

pele10brazil

jamesbh11

pele10brazil

jamesbh11

msioux75

jamesbh11

ozora

ozora

msioux75

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