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· Cachorro
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18,744 Posts
Actually, this error aside, he raises some very good points. Why not tackle these points instead of holding on to a minor thing like that?
 

· Cachorro
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18,744 Posts
Yes, but he raised the question of Italy's reprehensible atitude on the end of their game vs. mexico. If it was done by other two teams who were qualifying and leaving Italy out as a result, I think we would have a lot of outraged people around here. It wasn't a pretty sight. And if Trappatoni's team had decided to push forward at that time and go for a victory, and fight for the 1st place in the group, Italia would've encountered another adversary.

Of course, maybe Trap wanted to face Korea. Maybe he thought it was the best-possible opponent. He was quite mistaken in this case.

All I'm saying is, the first post raised some good points about Italy's attitude in this World Cup. And when I say 'Italy', I mean the strategist who planned Italy's attitude, the man who thought it was a good idea to relax and LET Mexico exchange passes freely; the man who didn't bother fighting for the 1st place in the group; the man who chose to defend a 1x0 lead against friggin' Korea; the man who decided that the best time to field Montella was after the extratime, just in ime for the penalties. Who's da man?

Don't take this as an atack on Italy as a nation. I respect Italy. But that's not a good reason to overlook all the wrong decisions.

Trappatoni was a COWARD. Not Italy as a country; not Maldini or Nesta or Vieri as footballers; Trappatoni was a coward. And a coward doesn't admit mistakes; he blames the referee.

Peace.
 

· Cachorro
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18,744 Posts
Trap is STILL a coward...

I understand what 'as well' means. Do you understand what 'coward' means? Trappatoni is a coward. You may not like to face it, you may think his campaign in this World Cup was pure brilliance and glory and that it was all ruined by the big bad referees. So Panucci never fecked up, Maldini was never bested by a Korean forward, the Azzurri never played in a cowardly manner. If that's how you want to interpret reality, it's your call. :)

Trappatoni may be a victorious club manager. Hey, he may even have a couple of titles as National Team manager, I don't really care; his cowardly attitude was broadcast by satellites for the entire WORLD to see. You saying 'it isn't so' doesn't make it any better; everyone saw his cowardice.

I'm not the only person who arrived at the conclusion that he's a coward. There's an entire thread right here on Xtratime about his cowardice, and I didn't make it up; which means other people saw cowardice in his decisions as well. ;)

You say I'm 'ignorant' about Trappatoni. What is there to be ignorant about? I, along with millions of people, saw his decisions, and in my opinion he's a coward. A lot of people agree with that, too. Maybe you don't mind cowardice and believe it's a valid way of building a victorious squad. I think it's just sad.

So - any more grammar mistakes to point out? :D
 

· Cachorro
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18,744 Posts
fangul said:
I know what a coward is...and I know what a self-satisfied arrogant, clueless, two-bit armchair analyst is as well:D
Nice to see you know yourself so well... :rolleyes: Self-awareness is very important. ;)
 

· Cachorro
Joined
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18,744 Posts
Fangul,
your previous post sadly wasn't as funny. Because in it you abandoned the discussion (which is what interested me) and resorted to silly, uncalled-for insults.

Why? because I said something you didn't like? I don't remember atacking you personally, and if you take my criticism towards Trappatoni personally I can't help it.

You acused me of being 'clueless' and 'ignorant about Trappatoni'. I pointed out that my opinion was based on following the Azzurri's preparation and watching their games; Trappatoni's choices throughout that campaign led me to the conclusion that he is a coward. Many people arrived at the same conclusion. Yet you assault me as 'ignorant'. Well, if you're run out of arguments so badly that name-calling is your last option, I simply complied and gave you a response on the same level.

Whenever you feel like discussing the relative merits of the subject, I'll be happy to participate. But you can't expect to be treated as a grown-up after your name-calling.

Peace.
 

· Cachorro
Joined
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18,744 Posts
My, my, are we tense today?

You obviously take this criticism personally. I, along with dozens of other observers, think that, as a manager, Giovanni Trappatoni - an otherwise competent man, I'm sure - acts out of a cowardly philosophy. His team choices reflect that, his substitutions reflect that. He's overly defensive. Why is that a problem? because he was running one of the most traditional and powerful teams in the world. If he was manager of the Equatorial Papua it wouldn't be a problem.

Actually, as he's not MY team's coach, it doesn't really bother me either. I just think it's sad, y'know? The Azzurri have talent to go far... much further than Trappatoni will ever be able to take them, in my opinion.

But of course, that's my opinion. If you think he's a tactical genius decades ahead of his peers, hey, it's your problem, buddy.

Another thing. I have my doubts if this is the place for you. In here, we exchange opinions and debate them. Clearly not something you enjoy doing. If, in your opinion, people like Trappatoni are 'above' being discussed in an international football forum, why are you here? To distribute insults? Thanks, none for me. :)

Peace.
 

· Cachorro
Joined
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18,744 Posts
milano77 said:
Now u see my point, it is quite naive of u to call Trap or Italian football cowardish. It is their style of play. U can't do anything with that. Only u can switch off the TV when they play.;)

But many of us actually like Italian football. Must be quite a strange remark for u. but thats the fact. :angel: Ciao
Hey, believe it or not I like Italian football. I think it's a whole eduction on how to cover and defend - nobody touches the Italians on the purely tactical aspects of the game. But even within the Italian footballing philosophy, I thought Trappatoni was excessively defensive. I've seen Italian football organized in more balanced ways - that's what I'm saying.

I appreciate Italian football because IMHO they are to defense what Brazilians are to attack: the whole world could learn something about defense from the Azzurri, just as the whole world tries to copy Brazil's attacking patters and moves. Italy, like Brazil, is a standard of excellence regarding an aspect of the game. :)

Having said that, I admit that the word "coward" is a very strong one, as fangul pointed out. But it just leaps to mind, I tried to find a better one 'conservative', 'withdrawn'... - but when I think of Vieri alone up front without help from Montella, Fiore, or anybody else... it just seems like a waste. Trap seems 'cowardly' because a manager with defenders like Italy's - Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini etc - really shouldn't bother protecting them so fiercely, because they could do the job without so much coverage. Like they say, 'The best defense is offense'. But I understand that it's a matter of philosophy. I just think Trappatoni overdid it.

Let me underline that I never meant to insult Italians when I use the term 'coward'. I was aimed at a football manager and his game strategies, which I found excessively concerned with defending minimum goal leads. Not to mention those last minutes against Mexico, particularly offensive - because a man who's running la Squadra Azzurra should be ashamed for laying down his arms and forgetting that the Azzurri should always strive to be number one.

Trap was perfectly happy with the second spot in the group stage, and it brought Italy to a decisive playoff against the 1st-placed team from the other group. Trap probably thought it was the best possible choice of opponent - and boy, was he wrong.
 
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