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The amazing come from behind win for Korea has created a lot of talking points. All of which the Italian media and aficionados will construe to suit their purpose of finding excuses for their defeat at the hands of host Korea.

All things said and done, the Italian could have avoided all this hassle and pulled up their socks long ago if they would have only tried to play some football. In their group games they merely cruised along hoping to make the cut, not giving enough thought about trying to finish top of the group and avoiding the group winners from Group D, i.e. the Koreans.

Though at the point they were playing their game, the Italians would not have guessed that it would be Korea they would be playing in the 2nd round, it is my guess that they did not care who they played as they must have thought that they were better than them all.

When they equalised against Mexico with a couple of minutes still to play, the Azzurri should have tried to get a winner, which would have accorded them top place in the group. Instead, they stood and watched while the Mexicans passed the ball around allowing time to run out, as they knew they could not be ousted from qualification.

Acts like that does not make World champions and not even quarterfinalists as the case has shown to be. Korea for their part could have lost to Portugal by a single goal and still qualified for the 2nd phase as runner-up and played Mexico and avoided Italy, but they did not do that. They dug in and grinded out a win over a undisciplined Portuguese side, whose lack of players was due to their own doing coupled with their inability to cope with the pace and organisation of the Koreans.

Contrast the sportsmanship of the now the mighty Koreas to the meagre behaviour of the Italians in their final game against Mexico. Korea deserved to win this match and did it in magnificent fashion, even affording to miss a penalty in the game.

Hence it is not the humidity, fixture congestion, poor officiating, stroke of luck or the likes that have seen the demise of yet another superpower in the World Cup, but the victory of football against arrogance, unsporting behaviour and overconfidence. The Italians got what they deserved!
 

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Cachorro
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Actually, this error aside, he raises some very good points. Why not tackle these points instead of holding on to a minor thing like that?
 

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Garrincha said:
Actually, this error aside, he raises some very good points. Why not tackle these points instead of holding on to a minor thing like that?
because when you hate Italians and Italian football, what is the use of an argument. First, what are all these Italian haters doing on this site bashing Italy and Italian Football. How come I don't go to other sites and bash those who have failed so far ? Is it because some of us have class and others don't. There is no room for Jeolusy in this game. I know that there are a lot of nations and fans that were dying to say something, to bash Italy if they had the slightest chance. Now they do, and here they are. Beware, this WC is not over yet. some may have gone further then Italy, but remember that it is only the winners that will be remembered. Just to remind all you Italian haters, there will be only 1 WC champ. :cool:
 

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Cachorro
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Yes, but he raised the question of Italy's reprehensible atitude on the end of their game vs. mexico. If it was done by other two teams who were qualifying and leaving Italy out as a result, I think we would have a lot of outraged people around here. It wasn't a pretty sight. And if Trappatoni's team had decided to push forward at that time and go for a victory, and fight for the 1st place in the group, Italia would've encountered another adversary.

Of course, maybe Trap wanted to face Korea. Maybe he thought it was the best-possible opponent. He was quite mistaken in this case.

All I'm saying is, the first post raised some good points about Italy's attitude in this World Cup. And when I say 'Italy', I mean the strategist who planned Italy's attitude, the man who thought it was a good idea to relax and LET Mexico exchange passes freely; the man who didn't bother fighting for the 1st place in the group; the man who chose to defend a 1x0 lead against friggin' Korea; the man who decided that the best time to field Montella was after the extratime, just in ime for the penalties. Who's da man?

Don't take this as an atack on Italy as a nation. I respect Italy. But that's not a good reason to overlook all the wrong decisions.

Trappatoni was a COWARD. Not Italy as a country; not Maldini or Nesta or Vieri as footballers; Trappatoni was a coward. And a coward doesn't admit mistakes; he blames the referee.

Peace.
 

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Man,
Blam Trapatonni. The guy wanted to hold a result for 30 minutes against those "engines" taht are the Koreans with all that pressure.

Why did he tak Del Peiro?? he owuld have been a good option to hold the ball in attack!

Blame him...and use the forads that you have, you might win more trophies instead of being in despair at every major event, with your atiquated boring tactics...... if you have the artillery, whi not use it??:confused: :rolleyes:
 

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Man, and to think I'd heard it all...Garrincha, a clue: when you qualify a statement with "as well" it means in addition to the principal point, that the writer is about as ignorant about Italian football as you are about Trapattoni...

What a f ucking joke these post-mortems have become

Cheers,

Romulus
 

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Cachorro
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Trap is STILL a coward...

I understand what 'as well' means. Do you understand what 'coward' means? Trappatoni is a coward. You may not like to face it, you may think his campaign in this World Cup was pure brilliance and glory and that it was all ruined by the big bad referees. So Panucci never fecked up, Maldini was never bested by a Korean forward, the Azzurri never played in a cowardly manner. If that's how you want to interpret reality, it's your call. :)

Trappatoni may be a victorious club manager. Hey, he may even have a couple of titles as National Team manager, I don't really care; his cowardly attitude was broadcast by satellites for the entire WORLD to see. You saying 'it isn't so' doesn't make it any better; everyone saw his cowardice.

I'm not the only person who arrived at the conclusion that he's a coward. There's an entire thread right here on Xtratime about his cowardice, and I didn't make it up; which means other people saw cowardice in his decisions as well. ;)

You say I'm 'ignorant' about Trappatoni. What is there to be ignorant about? I, along with millions of people, saw his decisions, and in my opinion he's a coward. A lot of people agree with that, too. Maybe you don't mind cowardice and believe it's a valid way of building a victorious squad. I think it's just sad.

So - any more grammar mistakes to point out? :D
 

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Cachorro
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fangul said:
I know what a coward is...and I know what a self-satisfied arrogant, clueless, two-bit armchair analyst is as well:D
Nice to see you know yourself so well... :rolleyes: Self-awareness is very important. ;)
 

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Garrincha your remarks are absolutely accurate. Brilliant post. The people attacking you with silly comments know you're right but just won't admit it. The truth is stinging them in the a$$.

Trapattoni showed what a coward he was the day he announced his squad. I'm referring to the exclusion of the only class act the Italians have produced in the recent years, Roberto Baggio. Trap just didn't have the guts to try to make Baggio fit in the squad along with Totti and Del Piero. This squad lacked determination and fighting spirit, just the very attributes that represent Baggio! The man gave his everything to recover in time for the selection just to show how much he cares about fighting for his nation. Could any of these players ever show such determination? NEVER! Instead Trap killed Baggio's dreams and hence also killed the very heart and soul of the team. Well if you make such a foolish move then you most definitively deserve to lose. Keep pinning your hopes on players who are more interested in diving than playing.
Serves you right Crapattoni!
 

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Garrincha, your last post was actually quite funny...it reminded me of my grade school days, "I know you are, but what am I?"

And now you even have the Almighty on your side - take heart

Cheers,

Romulus
 

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Cachorro
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Fangul,
your previous post sadly wasn't as funny. Because in it you abandoned the discussion (which is what interested me) and resorted to silly, uncalled-for insults.

Why? because I said something you didn't like? I don't remember atacking you personally, and if you take my criticism towards Trappatoni personally I can't help it.

You acused me of being 'clueless' and 'ignorant about Trappatoni'. I pointed out that my opinion was based on following the Azzurri's preparation and watching their games; Trappatoni's choices throughout that campaign led me to the conclusion that he is a coward. Many people arrived at the same conclusion. Yet you assault me as 'ignorant'. Well, if you're run out of arguments so badly that name-calling is your last option, I simply complied and gave you a response on the same level.

Whenever you feel like discussing the relative merits of the subject, I'll be happy to participate. But you can't expect to be treated as a grown-up after your name-calling.

Peace.
 

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Yeah Fangul your posts are so mature. Instead of throwing insults like a child please try to post some strong arguments which can prove us wrong. I understand that the truth is hurting you but try to restrain yourself from such immature comments.
 

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Is that right...I see on this forum hundreds of posts referring to Trapattoni and my team as cowards...do you know him personally? Is a personal attack on him justified simply because you don't address him directly...if anything that makes you a coward, as you besmirch a very public figure's character knowing he has no ability to respond...not that a man who's earned his place in the annals of european football would even bother..."Garrincha who?" "Xtratime what?"

And frankly, I don't give a f uck if I amuse you or not

Peace
 

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Cachorro
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My, my, are we tense today?

You obviously take this criticism personally. I, along with dozens of other observers, think that, as a manager, Giovanni Trappatoni - an otherwise competent man, I'm sure - acts out of a cowardly philosophy. His team choices reflect that, his substitutions reflect that. He's overly defensive. Why is that a problem? because he was running one of the most traditional and powerful teams in the world. If he was manager of the Equatorial Papua it wouldn't be a problem.

Actually, as he's not MY team's coach, it doesn't really bother me either. I just think it's sad, y'know? The Azzurri have talent to go far... much further than Trappatoni will ever be able to take them, in my opinion.

But of course, that's my opinion. If you think he's a tactical genius decades ahead of his peers, hey, it's your problem, buddy.

Another thing. I have my doubts if this is the place for you. In here, we exchange opinions and debate them. Clearly not something you enjoy doing. If, in your opinion, people like Trappatoni are 'above' being discussed in an international football forum, why are you here? To distribute insults? Thanks, none for me. :)

Peace.
 

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I see...calling someone a coward is "discussing" him...and you have the gall to complain about "personal insults..."

This is unadulterated sophistic s hit, and your phony indignation fails to impress.

Ta ta,

Romulus
 

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I see...calling someone a coward is "discussing" him...and you have the gall to complain about "personal insults..."

This is unadulterated sophistic s hit, and your phony indignation fails to impress.

Ta ta,

Romulus
 

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Garrincha, Italian football has always been famous for their defensive ways. Its not only today that they have switched to this kind of football. They have always played like that and as far as I see they won't abandon this style, becoz they have achieved all the fame by playing like this.

Look I respect ur views but at the same time must remind u that Italy is not brazil (for that matter nobody is like Brazil). They both play different types of football. Don't u think that makes football more interesting when there are different types of football??:) For me it is. So why expect anything different from them now. :rolleyes: :confused:

Lets take the Example of Brazil NT in the current WC - do u remember how everybody was saying just before the WC that Brazil is going to play defensive football. :eekani: :rollani: . I never for a moment believed these articles. what is there to believe. these ppl don't understand that Brazil can never play defensive football and never try to. same reason as before. brazil has achieved all the trophys by playing attacking "samba" football. Why discard a proven method. Anyway Brazil players are born to play attacking football. Hell, even some of ur defenders are better finishers than forwards of many countrys.:eekani: :) :lala: ;) :D .

Now u see my point, it is quite naive of u to call Trap or Italian football cowardish. It is their style of play. U can't do anything with that. Only u can switch off the TV when they play.;)

But many of us actually like Italian football. Must be quite a strange remark for u. but thats the fact. :angel:

Ciao
 
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