Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Alright, now that the squad is here, and hopefully no further injuries and since there will not be any access to see la seleccion in action (no official friendlies, except perhaps against a Korean club side on training grounds)

so considering this, by what you already know, who would you put in the first 11 against Slovenia. Our first game, a tradition of 50 years without winning the first game of such a tournament!
from what i remmember, (I may need to check) no champion team since 82 has not won their first game (Italy drew in 82 their first match, still no loss!) I agree that to begin with a win is so important mentally speaking....it provides calm knowing the fact
that we wont have to depend on others.

After seeing the squad, I think Spain will need to make certain sacrifices, but this is a good thing as it is competitive, perhaps
we dont have the pure wingers we are accustomed to (victor or vicente) however the players who will occupy those positions are
perhaps more versatile.

Anyhow here is my team.


--------------Ricardo---------------------------

Puyol-----------Hierro-----------------JuanFran--

Mendieta-------Baraja-----Helguera-----Luis Enrique

-----------------Valeron--------------------

-------------Raul & Tristan--------------


alright, my explanations:

Ricardo is a man! 30 years old, I dont know how else to explain
how important it is. The goalkeeper organizes and motivates the team, remember Zubi??? Is Casillas such a figure? no......

The defence of 3 is likely never to be used, but it may be our
only choice if we want that famous "Tridente" to work.
If Puyol is a central, then Curro Torres will come in and he is
not very effective when attacking as Puyol is, JuanFran may
be the more tough left-back although Romero could work,
I dont think anyone sees Hierro on the bench.

Mendieta says he prefers the centre-midfield, but the right wing
goes to him with Joaquin waiting on the bench, Baraja is the
most in form player and his partnership is likely to be with Helguera, unless Albelda or Sergio change Camacho's mind.
Luis Enrique on the left is probable as I dont see Luque or another midfielder/forward going to that area from the start...

then the tridente, that trio which is a fantasy. No discussion there
I think.

So what are your 11 and why?



(Please no messages with "Spain has no this or no that"
that is bullsh*t and if so, who is your team?) :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,718 Posts
A 3 man defence for Spain is suicidal. It would never work. We dont need more attacking flair, so i say a 4 man defence is perfect. In goal i would put Casillas, i believe that he will shine and he can only get better. Right back, i would have loved to put Salgado or Pablo but sadly Salgado was not chosen and Pablo is injured so i have to go with out Culo Torres :eek: Hierro and Puyol in the center is a must because they both defend like animals. Hierro still performs at top level and Puyol is just bloody amazing. But if Puyol is played at the right and we have to go with a Nadal-Hierro partnership then just forget about the world cup. Nadal would be good as a sub, nothing more. I really hope Camacho realizes this. At the left, J.Fran wins hands down although his butcher side could come out and cost us dearly. Romero is chosen right? Nice to have good backups. Baraja as mollarquin said is very in-form right now so i would definetly put him ahead of Helguera as the DM. On the right i honestly dont know who to pick. Mendieta's moral must be at an all time low right now and hes very lucky to be picked but we all know what hes capable of. But Joaquin had an amazing season and can get us some beautiful crosses and dribblings. L. Enrique on the left although hes not a true left mid, he likes it more in the center but we have Valeron there :star: supplying the Raul-Tristan duo with Morientes waiting.

My line up:

______________________Casillas___________

Torres :cry: ________Puyol_______Hierro______J.Fran

______________________Baraja___________

Mendieta/Joaquin_____________________L.Enrique

____________________Valeron_______________

_______________Raul_________Tristan

Again the team looks impressive like always but can they play together as a team finally? Please god yes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,451 Posts
Definitly would've been different if Camacho took better players and Cani wasn't injured. But here is mine:

_______________Casillas
________Hierro_________Helguera
Puyol__________________________J.Fran
______________Baraja
___Mendieta___Valeron___LE21
________Tristan______Raul

Actually.... Doesn't look to bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,932 Posts
Mine would be exactly the same as Kiyan's but don't think that I am happy with agreeing with it;)

Basically Casillas will start and he bloody should... although Ricardo may have age on his side he is still inexperienced for Spain. Iker has played for them in a big tournament and basically is the best of a bad bunch:(... Canizres being injured is a massive blow.

Puyol is best on the right, Helguera should be brought back now as a CD to play alongside Hierro and JuanFran easily takes the left back spot. For me this is the obvious choice...

Baraja HAS to play... for me if he does then he could become one of the stars of the WC... the problem for me is if Camacho plays him too defensively he will not be able to show the world what an all around midfielder he is:(

Gazika should start the first game but I would not be hesitant in bringing on Joaquin if he is playing ****. The reason that he gets the nod in the first place is that LE will be on the left.

De Pedro has not proved himslef at international level and should count himself lucky that he is going at all... he did nothing in the N.I match:(... this means that Mendietta will play on the right as the balance will be better...

Valeron has to play somewhere now with no Vicente to create something for the attackers and in advance of the other two midfielders will be just fine. We know that he will not defend but he is THAT good going forward that we need him.

Raul and Tristan up front... don't think that there should be any arguments there...

As has been said Nadal should not start and I believe that Xavi can sit next to him all tournament...

Replacements should be this:

Casillas (Ricardo)
Puyol (Torres)
Hierro (Puyol)
Helguera (Puyol)
JuanFran (Romero)
Baraja (Albeda)
Mendietta (Joaquin)
LE21 (De Pedro:()
Valeron (change of formation... too complex to note now)
Raul (Morientes)
Tristan (Morientes)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,765 Posts
Mine...


******************Ricardo******************

******Curro Torres*****Hierro****Puyol*****Juanfran

**********Sergio******Albelda*******Baraja******

********************Valeron*******************

**********Tristan****************Raul**********

Having the slowest players in the world I reckon that Spain needs three defensive midfielders if they want to achieve something, and not allow other teams to outrun them easily. If Spain had pace they would be strong favourites to win the world cup...with these snails...little chance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
I don´t know why but i think Camacho will take this eleven against Slovenia,latter reasons....

-------------Casillas---------------------
Puyol------Hierro-------Helguera---------Juan Fran

Mendieta------Baraja-----------Albelda-----Luis Enrique


---------------------Raul----------Tristan--------------


Reasons:

Casillas: He is the only one Goalkepper that he tested.
Albelda: Slovenia is the first match and of course the team will be more defensive just because the afraid to lose....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
hmmm

We all seem to agree on one thing or another, although
GaspartJoan (do you actually support that horrible man??)
believes the team is slow, but which teams are exactly fast? (apart from the pace of the british game, not many...)

I dont think our seleccion is any slower than any of the other favorites. I agree with GJoan that Ricardo could be in the goal,
it is a crime that Molina is not there.

For me, I am just tired of the 4-4-2. this prevents Spain from showing its true strength, what is wrong with 3 defenders (Hierro as a central) but with two great men like Baraja-Helguera (Albelda/Sergio etc) providing great coverage in front of him?

Garate: I have never seen Spain play defensively, we are perhaps the only national team who has never gone out to defend........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,765 Posts
No , I don't support him at all. It was intended as a joke as I never thought that I would continue posting in this forum. Talking about football, I disagree with you about the sissue of pace: Spain lack quick players in all the areas of the pitch and that is the most glaring defect of the side. Comparared with the top NTs, which to me are Argentina, France and Italy, Spanish players are far slower in general. Just look at the centerbacks, Hierro or Nadal and compare to Nesta and Cannavaro, or Walter Samuel and Ayala, or Desally and Lebouef (well this guy is not that quick either). Strikers? Spain have Raul and Tristan, not pace whatsoever. Argentina have Lopez and Crespo, definetely much faster, not to mention France strikers, and the Italians are also faster. In midfield again the same tendency. Out of all the players only Joaquin and Puyol can be considered relatively quick, and none of those is lighning quick. I know that football is not athletics, but obviously, when the quality is similar, the faster player has the advantage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
GaspartJoan said:
No , Strikers? Spain have Raul and Tristan, not pace whatsoever.
Reyes en la Seleccion! ;)

That's why I don't understand why Camacho took Luque over Tamudo. I'm not a big fan of Tamudo but he is rather quick.

The problem here is when we have to defend. When we have the ball we'll be fine but in the transition game we'll be killed.

Puyol was put in the centerback position today. But only because Hierro was out. Still even though we would lose something offensively I do think putting Puyol into the center would be a good move. Because a Hierro-Nadal pairing will kill us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,765 Posts
I agree with you, Juanele, but looking at the squad I can not imagine that Camacho wants Puyol to play as center back as only Curro Torres is avalilabel as right back. Maybe the idea is to play Puyol in both positions depending on the game. By the way, I dread the partnership Hierro Nadal too. In any case I would prefer Helguera and Hierro. At least, Helguera can provide laccurate long balls to the strikers and definetely is more of a threat in attack than Nadal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,932 Posts
I keep telling myself that Helguera will play alongside Nadal... it is the only way that I can make it through the days...
I agree that a central partnership of Hierro and Nadal would cripple us... I know that experience is important but for Gods sake Camacho do not go overboard.

We do have cover for Nadal and Hierro supposedly but my problem is that both Helguera and Puyol are better in other positions! If we play Puyol there then we will not have our best right back!
Helguera has to play there now as we have cover for him in the shape of the superb Baraja or the scary Albeda...

The pace of the team has never worried me overly but I agree that it would be nice to have another option... especially up front...

Still I suppose that Raul and Tristan will have to do;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Well Puyol....

I remember the last World Cup or last Eurocap, don´t you remember Nadal playing as playmaker?¿?¿

I think i posted a team more defensive than yours but not exactly a defensive team i just said that i think Spain will play the first match with two stoppers Albelda y Baraja...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,432 Posts
Speaking about the defence, Ivan Helguera in a central defence of 2 is not a good option IMO. The man is world class in defensive midfield and he's ok as a sweeper but somehow isn't good enough in central defence. Well, he didn't let his club down in the CL final, true, but in the 3-0 loss to Real Sociedad was partly responsible in 2 marking errors that costed goals. Helguera also got himself sent off in the loss against Osasuna, playing in central defense in all. Better use Puyol in central defence because this role is crucial, they can't afford anything less than a win from the Slovenia match ;).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,665 Posts
I haven't been here in a week after the paris trip, so I was kind of pissed about the players:mad: . Vicente/Salgado really ticked me off but hey we have alot of great players there. This is my starting 11. I think Camacho should go form over name. Here is my line-up.
______Casillas_____
Puyol_Hierro_Helguera_Juanfran
Joaquin_Valeron_Baraja_LE21
____Tristan__Raul___

Our advantages: strikers and wingers
Our Disadvantages:Center Defense

This could be the team if Tristan-Raul get the balls in the center.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
Camacho knows of the frailty of our defense. This is his supposed lineup against offensive powerhouses when we are in the later rounds.

--------------- Casillas---------------

Puyol ------- Hierro ------ Helguera

--------- Albelda -- Baraja---------

Mendieta -- Valeron -- Luis Enrique

--------- Tristan --- Raul ------------

Not bad but it is too clogged in the center for my taste. A good defensive team will shut down the middle and will force us to go wide. With this team I'm not sure we'd be able to break down a defense like that. Still this lineup has been proposed to use against offensive teams to help protect our fragile defense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,765 Posts
£ or 5 at the back with Camacho and without testing the system at all? No way. Camacho will stick to his previously tested 3 formations, always with 4 at the back:

The diamond shaped 4-4-2, the 4-4-2 with two defensive midfielders, and the one tested in Ireland, the most defensive of all: 4-3-1-2, with "el trivote" (Mendieta or Sergio on the right, Albelda in the middle and Baraja on the left) + "el tridente" (Valeron as ofensive midfielder and Raul and Tristan upfront)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
GJ,

Either way there is still no width to the team. I maintain we will not score on a well marshelled defensive team. Our group is managable enough but after that we will have trouble scoring. Even against a modest team like Ireland we would have trouble beating. If we had speed up front we could play a similar style like Italy but as it is our game is possesion. And without a wide game our possesion will just get us caught out eventually and we'll be exposed at the back. We play a similar style to holland except they have some speed on their team (up front) and we don't. I'm not too high on our chances, maybe quarterfinals at most.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,086 Posts
Juanele said:
Camacho knows of the frailty of our defense. This is his supposed lineup against offensive powerhouses when we are in the later rounds.

--------------- Casillas---------------

Puyol ------- Hierro ------ Helguera

--------- Albelda -- Baraja---------

Mendieta -- Valeron -- Luis Enrique

--------- Tristan --- Raul ------------

Not bad but it is too clogged in the center for my taste. A good defensive team will shut down the middle and will force us to go wide. With this team I'm not sure we'd be able to break down a defense like that. Still this lineup has been proposed to use against offensive teams to help protect our fragile defense.
I like this formation best as well, but defintly Helguera in DMC for Albelda because Helguera is best in DMC and Sweeper. a man-marking type of position won't suit him, you will need someone a bit more mobile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,765 Posts
Juanele said:
GJ,

Either way there is still no width to the team. I maintain we will not score on a well marshelled defensive team. Our group is managable enough but after that we will have trouble scoring. Even against a modest team like Ireland we would have trouble beating. If we had speed up front we could play a similar style like Italy but as it is our game is possesion. And without a wide game our possesion will just get us caught out eventually and we'll be exposed at the back. We play a similar style to holland except they have some speed on their team (up front) and we don't. I'm not too high on our chances, maybe quarterfinals at most.
I agree with you, but if you don't have world class wide players you better don't use them, and De Pedro is definetely not world class and Joaquin is unproven ate the highest level. I better stick with a solid midfield and let Raul, Valeron and Tristan create their own chances. On the other hand, if Mendieta picks his old form he could be a valuable wide player as he showed for Valencia. Also, in the final stages of the game Joaquin could come in to give the team more width. So...yes, without wide players your chances of scoring lots of golas are slim, but with a strong defensive midfield hte chances of letting golas in are fewer too. So , let's paly the Liverpool way (with our technical wizardy, of course) and see how it goes. Playing a 5-4-1 in USA 94, under Clemente, Spain got almost to the semifinals, and the best wide player we had was Sergi, hardly a world beater.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
You really thought Sergi was our best wide player then? Perhaps but I thought Goikoetxea did pretty good as well. Anyway, back then Sergi was actually pretty decent. Interesting to compare this team to 94. We are better offensively now but certainly worse defensively.

For this WC we'll just have to wait and see. I do hope that Mendieta plays like his Valencia days. And Raul must pick it up. If he doesn't perform at this stage again then I would never pick him for the NT ever again.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top