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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know there is a match thread there but I know if I only say it through a single post, it will be buried and gone unnoticed as usual. :rolleyes:


For next week's CL match against Bayern in Munich, we MUST play X'mas Tree again for the obvious reasons. :devil:


1. Play ONE striker with Kaka and Rui supporting.

2. We NEVER lost a major counters with big guns using the legendary X'mas tree. :devil: NEVER. :thumbsup: And Carlo seems to be able to coach his team better when he is using 4321.

3. In an away game to one of the most in-form and best team in Europe, we SHOULD employ more labor and power in the middle of the park, instead of playing two out and out strikers with hardly any supplies. :rolleyes:

4. We DEFEATED Bayern twice in 02/03, both ocassion we played with one striker(Pippo) with Rui and Rivaldo(Serginho) supporting the lone striker. :cool:

5. Gila has YET to score ANY goals in Champions League.;) The away game to Munich isn't exactly a time for players to mature. WE NEED PLAYERS WHO ARE READY FOR THE BIG TESTS. End of.;)

6. Hell yeah Berlu would complain, but I guess it's better to hear him complaining about the lone striker rather than complaining about the elimination from CL and become trophyless AGAIN.;)

7. Milan seems to play better especially against big guns when using X'mas tree. It increases our ability to hold on the ball and tire the opposition by making them run to get our ball. :cool: We are often more solid defensively too with X'mas Tree, since when Carlo is using 4321, Pirlo and Seedorf do not need to press too upfield to support our attacks. Our central midfield can thus be protected better. :cool:

8. Pippo-Sheva is very prolific themselves but the combination never clicks that well. :stress: I'd prefer fielding SuperPippo on the 65th or 70th minutes to see what happens on the pitch rather than starting Pippo from the very first minute.;)



FORZA MILAN :star:
X'MAS TREE ALL THE WAY :star:



------------------------Dida-----------------------------


Stam----------Nesta------------Maldini----------Serginho


-------Seedorf----------Pirlo---------Gattuso------------


--------------Kaka--------------Rui Costa---------------

------------------------Sheva--------------------------


Subs: Kalac, Kaladze, Billy, Vogel, Pippo, Jankulovski, Gila.

Ambro instead of Vogel if he's back form injury
 

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Elephant King said:
I know there is a match thread there but I know if I only say it through a single post, it will be buried and gone unnoticed as usual. :rolleyes:


For next week's CL match against Bayern in Munich, we MUST play X'mas Tree again for the obvious reasons. :devil:


1. Play ONE striker with Kaka and Rui supporting.

2. We NEVER lost a major counters with big guns using the legendary X'mas tree. :devil: NEVER. :thumbsup: And Carlo seems to be able to coach his team better when he is using 4321.

3. In an away game to one of the most in-form and best team in Europe, we SHOULD employ more labor and power in the middle of the park, instead of playing two out and out strikers with hardly any supplies. :rolleyes:

4. We DEFEATED Bayern twice in 02/03, both ocassion we played with one striker(Pippo) with Rui and Rivaldo(Serginho) supporting the lone striker. :cool:

5. Gila has YET to score ANY goals in Champions League.;) The away game to Munich isn't exactly a time for players to mature. WE NEED PLAYERS WHO ARE READY FOR THE BIG TESTS. End of.;)

6. Hell yeah Berlu would complain, but I guess it's better to hear him complaining about the lone striker rather than complaining about the elimination from CL and become trophyless AGAIN.;)

7. Milan seems to play better especially against big guns when using X'mas tree. It increases our ability to hold on the ball and tire the opposition by making them run to get our ball. :cool: We are often more solid defensively too with X'mas Tree, since when Carlo is using 4321, Pirlo and Seedorf do not need to press too upfield to support our attacks. Our central midfield can thus be protected better. :cool:

8. Pippo-Sheva is very prolific themselves but the combination never clicks that well. :stress: I'd prefer fielding SuperPippo on the 65th or 70th minutes to see what happens on the pitch rather than starting Pippo from the very first minute.;)



FORZA MILAN :star:
X'MAS TREE ALL THE WAY :star:



------------------------Dida-----------------------------


Stam----------Nesta------------Maldini----------Serginho


-------Seedorf----------Pirlo---------Gattuso------------


--------------Kaka--------------Rui Costa---------------

------------------------Sheva--------------------------


Subs: Kalac, Kaladze, Billy, Vogel, Pippo, Jankulovski, Gila.

Ambro instead of Vogel if he's back form injury
Totally agree.
 

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R u sure that with that formation you will score in Munich? I think that Milan wants to score at least once in Munich, and with a sole striker it seems a bit hard.I agree that your midfield will be solid in that way but..........
 

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I doubt if it makes much of a difference. Rui is not what he used to be.

At the same time Gila's performance's against good teams have been far form great this season, so there might not be much of qualitative difference between 4-3-1-2 and 4-3-2-1.
Maybe what Xmas tree would give us is more possession and somewhat better defensive setup, but I doubt that it would make any crucial impact. It will be the team performance and not the formation what will be the key; if we concentrate and manage to avoid stupid mistakes in the back and use our few chances well (as we certainly will not get many scoring opportunities against them) then everything's alright.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Reignman said:
R u sure that with that formation you will score in Munich? I think that Milan wants to score at least once in Munich, and with a sole striker it seems a bit hard.I agree that your midfield will be solid in that way but..........


Kid when did you start watching football? :howler: We scored freely against the big teams with X'mas tree.
Bayern, Real, Juve, Inter, Dortmund, Deportivo, Roma, Ajax, Barca and Man Utd. All were defeated by our 4321 system.


And yeah you must have never heard of the match that SuperPippo scored a brace to sink Bayern in 02/03 with X'mas tree :rolleyes: , and in San Siro we ended their European trip by 2:1 again, again X'mas formation.;)
 

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I totally agree with X-mas tree idea, its our maximum strength!!
But the main points are whether they'll be able to perform it 100% coz it has been a long time since we used it, & whether our availble players are reliable to do it:

Maldini is ready or not to lead defence? coz strong defence line is a must for it to work..
Rui is up to it?! Maybe Amoroso as AM?! or play Sheva bahind Gila a little,, or Vogel-> ultradefensive but then it won't be 4-3-2-1!!
 

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How could you leave out INZAGHI... play him instead of Rui Costa. Sheva could drop back for some tactical stuffs. Big Match? Gila on da bench.

Kaka-------Shev
----Inzaghi

Whatever the outcome,

win = Berlusconi's Selections.

No-win = Berlu quiet.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Shevchenko-[7] said:



I was referring to the scoring capability of the X'mas tree formation. We did score TWICE against Barca over two matches. One match we won 1:0 and one we lost 1-2.


That's not the point though. I was referring to someone's claim that we would have problem socring if we play 4321. It's a false claim.


@Rui Costa,

He still can perform at a high level but his fitness level doesnt allow him to do so for consecutive matches. I'd give him the nod against Bayern, his experience and through balls would be beneficial to us.

@Sheva playing far behind,


Come on;),

WHY SWITCH OUR BEST STRIKER IN ORDER TO ACCOMODATE AN UNPROVEN STRIKER TO PLAY THE LONE STRIKER ROLE?

I know some will suggest

----Kaka-----------Sheva-----
------------Gila---------------


But it's NONSENSE in my opinion. I'd rather start Pippo as lone striker than Gila. AND WHY SWITCH THE BEST FINISHER IN THE WORLD AWAY FROM THE GOAL? I know Sheva can assist, but his value lies on his goals, his instinct, his scoring. Assists are Rui's job, Kaka's job, Seedorf's job, Pirlo's job.


Please Carlo, resist Berlusconi's comment for once and bravely field us the 4321 formation. Keep the ball on our feet and launch deadly counter strikes on Kaka and Sheva. WE HAVE TO WIN THIS MATCH.


Forza Milan :star:
 

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Andy Christ said:
Maybe what Xmas tree would give us is more possession and somewhat better defensive setup, but I doubt that it would make any crucial impact. It will be the team performance and not the formation what will be the key
:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Andy Christ said:
Maybe what Xmas tree would give us is more possession and somewhat better defensive setup, but I doubt that it would make any crucial impact. It will be the team performance and not the formation what will be the key; if we concentrate and manage to avoid stupid mistakes in the back and use our few chances well (as we certainly will not get many scoring opportunities against them) then everything's alright.



I agree with you that it's the team performance that's the most important factor, afterall if 11 players all play like shit, then not even Mourinho or Capello could do anything about it.


But indeed I am talking this formation issue based on the SAME performance levels of our players. That means I am putting a hypothesis that assuming players' form remains unchanged, the 4321 X'mas Tree would do us better than our two-strikers-4312 scheme.


When we play 4312 and on form we can kill opponents with tonnes of goals but we are still a bit shaky at behind. Ref: 4-1 against Depor and then lost to them 0:4, both matches we played two strikers. In a field day we demolished them, in a bad day, our 4 men midfield collapse and we are humiliated easily.



In contrast, I notice everytime when we play X'mas and on form, we not only win matches by scoring goals, we also do it in a clinical and 'easy' way. Please watch our matches against Man Utd last season, or matches against all big guns in our 02/03 season. We look so solid and composed with our 4321 whenever we draw the big teams. We seemed that we'd never concede a goal, and if we score one, the game is often sealed.



That's the difference. Of course you can argue if all players are in matches of their life we could succeed with a 4-2-4 too:D, but that's out of the arguments here.;)
 

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I'd have to agree on the X-mas tree formation for Bayern. Because unless Gattuso comes out with 2 of the biggest performances of his career there is a great danger of us being dominated in midfield. 5 midfielders will allow us to control the game.

The only question is can Rui Costa be effective for 90 minutes, if not, maybe Jankulovski can play as the fifth midfielder with Seedorf playing a more central role.
 

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well 1st rule in a 180min tie is not to conceed,and i reckon Celotts will have that in mind and with that,the much maligned x-mas tree could be adopted,this is very much like last season with ManU.

We will step up,i feel sure about this,we are getting a bit of belief back within the group,if not a win a score draw please,higher=better.
 

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Elephant King said:
AND WHY SWITCH THE BEST FINISHER IN THE WORLD AWAY FROM THE GOAL?
now not to mince words, and i do believe sheva is one of the top 3 STRIKERS in the world, BUT no shot he is the best finisher...
 

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I'm not too sure about the X-Mas tree as yet. I'm leaning towards the diamond a little more at this time as I feel that Magath will deploy a 4-4-2 diamond himself knowing that Bayern needs to win this game first and try to win it convincingly as the second priority.

I think we can manage to play a diamond and get away with it.

a) We need the right attitude: positive and confident instead of trying to keep a clean sheet and shit-scared to venture forward.

b) Capitalize on the scoring chances we get. If we're sharp in front of goal then it can be easy otherwise it can be really troublesome. It happens frequently in the UCL that a team misses a host of scoring chances away from home and it contributes in the end result. We need to be sharp up front.

c) Highly focused and concentrated for the entire match.

d) We can worry about not conceding in the second leg when Bayern comes to town. This game is our opportunity to hurt them on their own turf. I don't think they've lost a home game as yet after moving in to the Allianz Arena. :eekani: I'll confirm that later on.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Haroon said:
I'm not too sure about the X-Mas tree as yet. I'm leaning towards the diamond a little more at this time as I feel that Magath will deploy a 4-4-2 diamond himself knowing that Bayern needs to win this game first and try to win it convincingly as the second priority.

I think we can manage to play a diamond and get away with it.

a) We need the right attitude: positive and confident instead of trying to keep a clean sheet and shit-scared to venture forward.

b) Capitalize on the scoring chances we get. If we're sharp in front of goal then it can be easy otherwise it can be really troublesome. It happens frequently in the UCL that a team misses a host of scoring chances away from home and it contributes in the end result. We need to be sharp up front.

c) Highly focused and concentrated for the entire match.

d) We can worry about not conceding in the second leg when Bayern comes to town. This game is our opportunity to hurt them on their own turf. I don't think they've lost a home game as yet after moving in to the Allianz Arena. :eekani: I'll confirm that later on.


Given the similar quality in terms of midfield, if Magath plays 442 and we play 451, we will have a possibilty to dominate the midfield as we did against the big teams in last 3 years.


In contrast, I am not sure IF Bayern's midfield do a 'Liverpool' or 'Depor' on us, that means using violent tackles and man-marking on Pirlo and Kaka. Our 4 men midfield may not be able to cope with the pressure, and hence leaving great danger to our defence.


We must first PREVENT them from scoring and then try to score one on our own. The 4-5-1 is the way to go. Recently our problem is NOT scoring nor the shooting accuracy, but the shaky defence and the declining midfield domination power.


Look at what Schalke did on us in Germany, I don't think 442 is the way, and Gila was invisible in both counters with Schalke, he's still too young to start in such matches for us. He's YET to score ANY goal in CL, the match against Bayern is NOT a chance for players to mature, but for those who are READY for it, e.g. SHEVCHENKO and INZAGHI.
 

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Elephant King said:
Given the similar quality in terms of midfield, if Magath plays 442 and we play 451, we will have a possibilty to dominate the midfield as we did against the big teams in last 3 years.
We will dominate the midfield in any case with regards to possession if we play a decent match even with the 4-4-2. It depends a lot on what Kaka, Seedorf and Pirlo are up to. If they are all playing well then we will dominate the midfield (which doesn't mean we will win the match by the way).

In contrast, I am not sure IF Bayern's midfield do a 'Liverpool' or 'Depor' on us, that means using violent tackles and man-marking on Pirlo and Kaka. Our 4 men midfield may not be able to cope with the pressure, and hence leaving great danger to our defence.
Both Pool and Depor pulled a sucker punch on us due to a high tempo match and Bayern can do that to us as well because Gattuso decides to go to Disney Land when that happens.

That momentum can be controlled by us as we have shown in the past. The team that bosses the game in football also controls the tempo of the match. :stuckup:

We must first PREVENT them from scoring and then try to score one on our own. The 4-5-1 is the way to go. Recently our problem is NOT scoring nor the shooting accuracy, but the shaky defence and the declining midfield domination power.
If we go out with that attitude, with our current defence and injury situation to pile up the problems, then we are fvcked ...... & I mean proper fvcked. :tongue: If we go out with a positive attitude and real intent to win the game, our defensive frailty can be covered IMO.

Look at what Schalke did on us in Germany, I don't think 442 is the way, and Gila was invisible in both counters with Schalke, he's still too young to start in such matches for us. He's YET to score ANY goal in CL, the match against Bayern is NOT a chance for players to mature, but for those who are READY for it, e.g. SHEVCHENKO and INZAGHI.
Teams like Schalke always feel that it will be something big to drown a giant and they are usually pumped up for these encounters as it is a big thing for teams like them. Schalke was unusually pumped up for that encounter and they went into the match with a "nothing to lose" attitude which hurt us. They still got a streaky second goal because Dida was sleeping and decided to rest during the game rather than after it.

There's no young player thing in football. Gila is not too young. Pele was not too young and Maldini was not too young. Gilardino is ready and he should be played even though the chances of him scoring will be rare as he scored versus Cagliari last night. He has to play. He is proactive and moving about and his presence in the air will help us. We can't continue to put Gila on the bench because he is allegedly not ready. Throw him in the water and let him swim or let him sink. What if we qualify for the next round? Will we continue to bench him for the rest of the UCL campaign because he is not ready? How can we be sure that he is ready next season for the UCL? He has to play IMO.

I really think that if Kaka and Shevchenko can have a decent match then we are in the business. :cool: Oh ... as for Gattuso + Dida. :scared:
 
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