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I know its too early, but the kid is doing great things so far and his scoring abilities are so good (4 goals in 3 games), even scoring against team like Ven, Bol and Peru is not that something big. First we only heard about him from dif. sites but now we saw what he can do.

What do think guys?
 

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I hope, because if he continues with this projection, will be a bad thing to not take him, even if he doesn't play a second, he must gain experience.

I'm not fond of putting in high pedestals any too much young player, cause tons of football and external issues can cut their careers.
I never thought Saviola was Maradona, nor Tevez, nor Roman, nor Aimar, even thought Pablito is the closer in style...and Messi??? not either, but he can be MESSI with similar achieves and impact, yes I take my risk.
The talent of this kid is huge and I'm bothering with him since day one I saw him, cause is the kind of player that with one move you see he is different and can be huge.
His speed and controll at that is incredible, his passing ability too, he has flair, he has determination, he has no fear of trying, he plays simple when demands and impredictible when need, he plays for the team, he has an incredible powerfull and guided shot, and I can be worng but in his career (youth one) he has more goals than games.
He is not a playmaker, he is not a striker, he is not a wing, but he can play whenever in the offensive and be great in all of them, he is the real deal, he has everything, time, luck, ****ING COACHES, his manage of fame, will tell if he ends like Bichi Borghi, or like Diego, but sure he has more talent than Tevez, and all the great young players we have.
He can change the face of a game in a glympse, with an assist, a dribble, a goal, his intelligence for his age is amazing, and as I said before, once he sprint..well you only will see his butt.

Sincerelly Aimar, Roman, Andres, Tevez, Saviola, are awesome gems in their own right, but Messi is the complete offensive player (take out the area tanks, but nevertheless in the area is cold as an iceberg).
I have huge expectations, and normally I do not put them here, but it seems that I can't curse him, jejejej, he is too much damn good, not the best club to be now Barca, with at least 5 guys ahead in his role, and all big players or great youngsters like Iniesta, and certainly a waste to not give him liberty to roam, and put him in a flank like Frank did.
He could be much more experienced and already big if he had played in Argentina, where this kind of players at their 16, are in the pitch, he could already have his high and his low moment, and already stablished, but in another way let's hope he obtains a place in Barca, is my biggest fear towards him, and the voices in the ears, if you know what I mean.

Messi can really be the first legend f the new millenium in Argentina, the talent is there, life will take care to settle down those, or ruin him, but he has the biggest ammount of talent since Pablo and Roman, and is a perfect combination of both with a terrific goal ratio, he can be really huge....
 

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Great post Fangio ! I also believe that Messi will go very far and indeed has the ability to be really HUGE. We have and have had many talented and capable players over the years but it is clear that Messi is different, he will write his own history, which can be be something really GREAT.
 

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You really have me interested in this guy. Everyone likes to see new talents

I searched on Google and it says he is at Barca. 17 years old right? Why don't they loan him out? because sometimes those early years against experienced pros is what makes a great player. Do you think he could get games this season or has he already?


P.S any clips or links to goals/games?
 

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Faisal said:
I searched on Google and it says he is at Barca. 17 years old right? Why don't they loan him out? because sometimes those early years against experienced pros is what makes a great player. Do you think he could get games this season or has he already?


P.S any clips or links to goals/games?
Because we need him. He has already played several matches, normally as a back up, but considering our lack of players, Messi is needed in Can Barça. I think that he could enjoy more minutes, if Giuly doesn't start to play better.

I just think that everyone should be patient with him. Rijkaard is a good coach, he already showed that he knows how to develop a young player and Iniesta is a prove of it. Rijkaard has given the chance to several players: Damia, Jorquera, Oleguer, Iniesta,... but the guy is only 17 years old. The pressure in Barcelona is awful and I think that he doesn't want to burn the player, something that I've seen many times here.

I guess that you want to see a big Messi in Germany 06, just as I want to see our kid being an star in the Camp Nou. I just think that he has a lot of time in front of him and he should go step by step. If it's not in 2006, it will be in 2010 and then he'll be better for sure.
 

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no he won't: playmakers are riquelme and aimar (with d'alessandro and ibagaza as outsiders), forwards are tevez, saviola, crespo and chelito (with milito, rosales, cruz and figueroa as outsiders).
 

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The pressure in Barcelona is awful and I think that he doesn't want to burn the player, something that I've seen many times here.
Can be burn slowly either in this particular case pal. Here too Koeman, daily, really talented kids are ate, even many will amaze you, but there is room for one or two, and in this last years attitude, the better physical conditions gain more a place than skills sadly too.

I told you before that is more dangerous in HIS case to not make him play, to even comitt his errors in 6 in a row games, because the result in years with Messi can be HUGE.
He is BTW (in his case of talent) not a kid in argentinian standards; when in Spain call a chaval a 22 years old, or even I heard at 24 (strangely Quqie Wolff was saying the same the other day in an interview..), and argie or brazilian laugh, cause here if at 18 you are not at least having some time in Primera...you won't make it, will be an exception, and the real talented like Messi at their 15 many times began to play.

If you care too much, if you give minutes only and never gets his pottential, he (?) will fail. If Barca will continue, as will do, buying, he can become a shadow, and anecdota or with luck an Etoo; who struggled way much more than his talent deserves to be recognize.
More than a hard football itself in the pitch, is a hard MARKET what makes it difficult, is a constant parade of players of high/mid/low/maketing calibre, an in the meantime... as everywhere, but with Europe big boys much worse: the President buy a player he likes, the Vice dislike, the coach don't want, the crowd don't know...exchange the alternatives for each part in countless possibilities and you will have a clue of were relies the danger in this case of not giving full games right now, a player matures in the pitch, not in bench, the real loyalty towards him is supporting him even being lousy 10 games, of course I'm speaking in the case of a talent of the calibre of Messi, ten minutes now, 20 in a week, a half in two months, will ruin him, and he is nt use to that either, he just want to eat the world now, and he MUST be stop by the wall of reality as soon as possible, to recover. Facing the wall in the banch, in a loan, will just ruin him.
I hope all turns right but: who tells you that Frank will stay? who tells you that if now with injures he doesn't play that much, will do if for instance Saviola come back, or you buy ..I don't know Henry?, Ronie stays, Deco stays, then goes to Mallorca...Rainieri is the coach and ?????....is divagating, but happens more than actually the opposite. Ask Etoo, you can see it with Aimar, he tasted already everything and he is as much 25?, his prime is just begining, this is what a Messi needs, to start a honey moon term career, his talent can assure that too, or at least to recieve his firts real punchs, out of the pitch is the worse for this players, he is not a kid, he is not talented, I tell you before: HE IS HUGE, really different, in this cases, patada en el orto, y pibe juga y hace jugar, YO te banco, that is the attitude, not that "te estoy cuidando", as I told is just for this speciall cases, do not se him like a Dammia, or Iniesta, no that is an error, he is above that class, even when Iniesta is incredible talented.

In Argentina if we had the money we will be the same, or even worse, and we were..but in the last years, younger players like Messi, that is at least in a league of becoming Aimar, is like the Grandma jewell, and he will play to attrack big bucks, and wont be sell, or loan instantly, the awufull situation, in many ways helps with this and also is traditional to push them even not fully ready, to get the amargo of being ´pro, and began to taste the sweet at early age, so ALL (blood suckers) will tase the final candy as soon as possible....

The thing is that in Barca he can disspear as a nobody in the glympse of an eye, and another kid, consolidate, or whatever awesome/mediatic may be too, player will ruin his career a minute after, or burst it in three seconds in Messi's lost place.

So in this particular case, not because of Barca itself, because of the market and the rules there involve, as ackwards as it sounds will be more hard to him to succeed, and is my biggest fear towards him, in anargie eys a 17 years player with skills of Messi, is not reafdy...is almost late to not use him, is Alice in Nightmare land here, but a great talent fabric, that one ingredient is this in the manufacture of the many diferentes in our history...

PD:I will find a Rexach editorial I've read few days ago, and he says what I think, I will post it later (jejej even if aren't Charles words, still is what I think).
 

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no he won't: playmakers are riquelme and aimar (with d'alessandro and ibagaza as outsiders), forwards are tevez, saviola, crespo and chelito (with milito, rosales, cruz and figueroa as outsiders).
MOre than probably, but nevertheless he must experince the WC at least as aguatero..and Ibagaza..he doesn't have a chance, just guessing, and from now to WC, even Palacio from now Boca can make it, who knows, a more sure bet are Roman and Aimar as you said...
 

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I'm not fond of media praising bullshit, but this kid has IT, here is Rexach opinion, I endorse:

" Recuerdo que cuando Messi vino a probarse a Barcelona, en la evaluación era el más pequeño de todos; tenía sólo 13 años, pero ya se veían sus posibilidades. Fue un amigo argentino quien me dijo que lo mirara. Se destacó por garra, empuje y habilidad. A los cinco minutos en el campo ya se lo podía fichar. Es el típico jugador con el que no hace falta entender de fútbol para darse cuenta de que es diferente. Su juego responde al arquetipo argentino porque es un habilidoso con mucho temperamento. No arruga cuando un partido se vuelve brusco, él pone el pie y se defiende. En Europa no surgen tantos jugadores así porque a los futbolistas desde pequeños se los guía demasiado. Le indican al niño que juegue a un toque y no le tienen que decir nada. En Argentina hasta que son más mayorcitos, les dejan hacer lo que les da la gana. Se hacen ellos mismos y después los entrenadores los pulen.

De sus actuaciones en la Selección, sólo vi algunas jugadas, porque acá no transmiten los partidos. Me comentaron que está muy bien. Quizás allá los equipos tienen más distancias entre las líneas. Y un tío como él, acostumbrado a tener siempre a alguien encima, puede sacar provecho de esos espacios. Cuando vuelva lo voy a felicitar. En España lo vi jugar en varias posiciones: da lo mismo que lo pongas en un puesto u otro. Tiene la ventaja de poder recibir la pelota, gambetear como hacía Maradona y aprovechar la profundidad como punta. Ahora lo pondría de mediapunta. A partir de este año va a tener más apariciones en Barcelona; y para el 2007 espero que veamos a un Messi pletórico.

En Barcelona sacamos buenos jugadores como Guardiola, Milla, Xavi o Iniesta. Saben jugar al fútbol y tienen visión. Pero son futbolistas que necesitan de un equipo para jugar. Messi puede hacerlo solo. Siempre cuando lo tienes en el campo esperas que toque el balón para que suceda algo diferente. No necesita adaptación porque jugó siempre en categorías superiores a las suyas. Intentaron ficharlo muchísimos equipos españoles y siempre me opuse. Varios dicen que puede llegar a padecer como Riquelme, a quien maltrataban por su lento traslado. Román también es habilidoso, pero tiene características parecidas a Guardiola o Xavi. Juega más en el mediocampo y en esa posición la gente se pone nerviosa cuando recibe el balón, porque piensa que debe jugarlo rápido. Igual, en este momento del Barsa, Riquelme sería titular. Messi es más eléctrico y menos pausado. Busca la pelota de tres cuartos hacia arriba y cuando regatea da la sensación de que puede meter un gol. Entonces los hinchas ven de otra manera sus jugadas. Yo también llevé a Saviola al Barcelona. Y los juntaría a los tres. Tienen todo para triunfar en el fútbol español."

(*) Fue Secretario Técnico de Barcelona y fichó a Messi allí.
 

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BTW Koeman, I didn't put it because of Roman and Saviola quote, that was aclear trying to be nice from Charles, and the note is kind of auto giving credit, but he is simply and accurate in the way he analize Lionel, he just said what I exactly think of him.
 

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Fangio said:
BTW Koeman, I didn't put it because of Roman and Saviola quote, that was aclear trying to be nice from Charles, and the note is kind of auto giving credit, but he is simply and accurate in the way he analize Lionel, he just said what I exactly think of him.
It's okay, Rexach is a Barcelona legend of the 70s and he was the 2nd coach in the Dream Team era, so his words are always something to consider here. I also understand all what you say.

I know the differences between the Argentinian and the Spanish football. As you said, he would probably play in the first XI of any top team. I just think that Rijkaard and the tecnical staff have a plan with him. It's really strange to see a 17 year old kid playing in Barça's first team, as you said, many guys play in the B teams until they're 22... even 24. So Messi is already "running" faster than any other kid in Barça's youth cathegories.

I'm not comparing Messi with Damià or Iniesta or any other kid. We all know that Messi is the biggest thing in Barça's youth cathegories in years. He's the youngest player ever to play in the first team and that's a signal of how the club trust in him. In this case, maybe the policy of Barcelona (the Spanish football in general) differs from the Argentinian, but it's working here.

I also fear to lose a talent like Messi, but I trust in the ability of our coaches to do the best for him. At this point, we all should be happy to have Rijkaard in Barcelona, because he's a coach that doesn't fear to give the chance to young players. IMO, Rijkaard does what I've said: better to go step by step than running too fast. He did it with Iniesta too and it's working fine. I'm not comparing them, just the situation.

Messi already played several matches, for a 17 yeard old kid, this is a lot in Spain. It's not usual. I'm sure that he'll play much more next year. IMO, Rijkaard is fair with his players. He doesn't fear to give the spot to a player that deserves it and I wish that he does the same with Messi. I've seen Barcelona playing with 7 or 8 guys formed in La Masia this season in several times and this is not usual in any top team of Europe.

Several teams already asked for Messi, they want him on loan. Barcelona usually accepts to loan players that don't have lots of chances here. But the policy with our pearls is different: No, they are going to grow here, living and learning with the players of the first team and so far it's working fine.

The problem is that the press create many expectations. See the reaction of the Camp Nou when Messi goes in. He's cheered as if he were a top star that is going to solve everything and Messi still didn't do anything big with the first team because he's always too anxious, he wants to prove many things in few minutes, because he knows the expectation around him in the city.

As I've said, I also fear to lose a talent like Messi, but I think that our coaches know what they have in the hands. The goal of all of us is to see a big Messi in Barcelona and Argentina. Now, it's an issue of faith in his talent and in the coaches that must be able to make him a big player. Iniesta started playing 15 minutes every 2 weeks last season and lately he's a starter. Messi is following the same progression. Right now, he's running faster than anyone else in Barcelona ever. So let's hope to see a big Messi... as I've said, maybe not in 2006, but in 2010. See what Rexach said, the goal is to see a big Messi in 2007. Playing in Barcelona is very difficult and he's already breaking all the records in the club, I have faith in him and in the coaches of the club.

Just look at it from the Spanish perspective, not from the Argentinian perspective. No one plays in Spain when you are 15 years old, the normal thing is to appear when you're 21, so being 17 and playing in Barcelona is extraordinary. Have faith.
 

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I agree with Koeman. We should look at Messi's case from the Spanish perspective. In Argentina Diego started to play as a starter at 15 years maybe if he is in Spain he would start at the same just because he is Maradona, but his situation is common in Argentina, as Fangio said: If player reached 18 and did not make several minutes in the first teams he will never make it.

I have faith in Messi and I think pekerman who is a god damn specialist in Messi's situation will do what its best for Messi in the NT.

Anyway, let us not put so much pressure on the kid, he is only 17 years old and he has his future infront of him to prove everything he wants and to win anything he wants.
 

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Is not a thing on Barca, Pooh, Koeman, but just the smell of a Babadinga puts me nervous when I see what this kid can be..anyway was smart to leave him go to Sudamericano, and btw his prize will rise heaven in minutes, I can see more trouble for the WC anyawy, I will have faith Koe, but is so dangerous to keep it warm, believ me with this cases better let him burn, and once he score for first time, temember my words, he won't stop...but is big Babadinga danger here, after is Deco, Ronie, Iniesta ahead of him, is too damn much....
 

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Fangio said:
Is not a thing on Barca, Pooh, Koeman, but just the smell of a Babadinga puts me nervous when I see what this kid can be..anyway was smart to leave him go to Sudamericano, and btw his prize will rise heaven in minutes, I can see more trouble for the WC anyawy, I will have faith Koe, but is so dangerous to keep it warm, believ me with this cases better let him burn, and once he score for first time, temember my words, he won't stop...but is big Babadinga danger here, after is Deco, Ronie, Iniesta ahead of him, is too damn much....
Iniesta had the same problem, many people wondered: how can Iniesta make it among so many stars and he did it. Last year, Luis García was under Quaresma and Overmars and he finished playing always. He'll have his chance, I'm sure of that.

BTW, I don't understand the Babangida thing, can you explain it?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The problem is that the press create many expectations. See the reaction of the Camp Nou when Messi goes in. He's cheered as if he were a top star that is going to solve everything and Messi still didn't do anything big with the first team because he's always too anxious, he wants to prove many things in few minutes, because he knows the expectation around him in the city.
This is what I fear the most, when ever he comes into the field I see him nervous, wants to do something without nothing, he wants to play fast and can't control usualy himself.

But talking about the NT, I thanks god that Pekerman is our head coach coz he knows what the best for this kid, also I find him sharing some idea's with Tocalli, which didnt happen alot between Bielsa and our U-20 coachs (Pekerman and Tocalli).
 

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Well Luis Garcia is on loan, Babadinga wasn't that kid in Barca that then vanished?..putting him here not for same treatment or situation, just for the similar expectation...Bati he played more than good, and didn't receive that much the ball to say he was that nervous, in fact he played with no few balls dribbling, may be that sensation was because he missed a clear chance, but we are talking at must two of them in really few minutes, give him a whole game, and another, and no ****ing nervous will tie him....
 

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Fangio said:
Well Luis Garcia is on loan, Babadinga wasn't that kid in Barca that then vanished?..putting him here not for same treatment or situation, just for the similar expectation...Bati he played more than good, and didn't receive that much the ball to say he was that nervous, in fact he played with no few balls dribbling, may be that sensation was because he missed a clear chance, but we are talking at must two of them in really few minutes, give him a whole game, and another, and no ****ing nervous will tie him....
Ah... well, he was supposed to be good, but it was more a press hype due to the success of his older brother at that time in Ajax (where is he now?) than a real thing. Nothing comparable. In the last few years, the big names were Iniesta, Cesc and Messi. I've been hearing about them since long ago.

You're right, he should play since the begining to be more calm. I would try him instead of Giuly.
 

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Messi knew in the summer already he would be in the B team. But 'thanks' to the injuries he is already in the first team. As a substitute OK, but still.
 
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