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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi!

I am Timo Grandovec, an almost 18year old kid from Slovenia. First of all, I am great madridista and so on. You know all how it feels.

But I am greatly annoyed by some things in our club, like our ignorance of cantera and homegrown powers. That's why I have decided to write a more extensive paper about this topic and I have also decided to send it to some great journalists in Madrid: Roncero, Relano, Segurola, Sanchis (Manolo) and Ortego. Of course I have send it also to RM Board.

I didn't expect any answer, but I traced out this on Sunday on as. com from Roncero (look at GUTI ROMERO paragraph) http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/futbol-cayo-decima/dasftb/20090301dasdaiftb_29/Tes

Well, about that paper. It is written in English and has about 25 pages (5000 words)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6U16JMTD

In that file are attached the original paper and letters, that I attached in the envelope, when I send it to Madrid

Most of all, I want to hear your opinion about that matter.
 

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I'm not going to read 5000 words but kudos to you for the effort :thumbsup:
I also hope to see us trusting the cantera more. When you see players like Negredo, Granero, and Mata play elsewhere you wonder why we need to sign players like Saviola, Drenthe, Faubert etc.

I hope your efforts will help bring this change. At least your name already made it into the as paper :)
 

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I downloaded it but havent had a chance to read it yet.

Well done on getting a mention but the article doesnt explain the reason for quoting you but it could lead to something.
 

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Hey Timo, it's fans like you that Real Madrid need to listen to..
AS have acknowledged your commitment and keep it up man!
Also, welcome to XT brother!
 

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good paper but you pretty much put on paper what I have been saying about european football in the last 5 years.

There is not connection between players/clubs and local football is being killed. Europe used to have 2 or 3 great foreigners in the best teams, today the big teams are not even developing a couple of players they have decided its easier to sign mediocre foreigner players.

Also even though the paper is 25 pages its a light read
 

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I think that Fifa should limit transfers to 1 per transfer window per club.
6+5 needs to be brought in as well, and don't anyone say ohhhh no what if there's an injury to Cannavaro, Metzelder and Heinze and there isn't a defender to replace them.. well every club has youth teams, so bring up your best.. it's that simple.
I'd rather see Negredo than Saviola, Granero than VDV, and Filipe than Marcelo, but no.. we don't keep them, it'd save money, it'd help the youth teams build confidence and more importantly it'd show who really did have the best youth setups.
If Raul was in our cantera today, he'd go to Mallorca, find it hard to adapt.. move to Segunda, make a name for himself there, become known at 21, be pichich by about 25.. break into the spain squad by 26 as a starter....but, we relied on him when he was 17 years old.. thats why he's our all time top scorer. Would Negredo be our new Raul if we relied on him from the age of 17? Only god knows.
 

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I think that Fifa should limit transfers to 1 per transfer window per club.
6+5 needs to be brought in as well, and don't anyone say ohhhh no what if there's an injury to Cannavaro, Metzelder and Heinze and there isn't a defender to replace them.. well every club has youth teams, so bring up your best.. it's that simple.
I'd rather see Negredo than Saviola, Granero than VDV, and Filipe than Marcelo, but no.. we don't keep them, it'd save money, it'd help the youth teams build confidence and more importantly it'd show who really did have the best youth setups.
If Raul was in our cantera today, he'd go to Mallorca, find it hard to adapt.. move to Segunda, make a name for himself there, become known at 21, be pichich by about 25.. break into the spain squad by 26 as a starter....but, we relied on him when he was 17 years old.. thats why he's our all time top scorer. Would Negredo be our new Raul if we relied on him from the age of 17? Only god knows.
spot on.

but sadly, nothing that hasnt been said a thousand times before.
 

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I just hate the money in football, it's all about commercial value nowadays :(
 

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These ideas of limiting transfers and overvaluing the youth systems are extremely short-sighted and really lacking in thought. You're simply creating greater imbalance at an earlier point.

Imagine:

To limit transfers means that a young talent will want to head straight for the academy of the top clubs since, if he trains at another club, it will be harder for him to leave.

By the same token, failed prospects at big clubs will find it hard to leave since other teams will have only one transfer to use. They're not going to use it on a failed prospect.

Then the idea that, if your first teamer is injured then bring up your best youth team player is simply born from misplaced club loyalty. All this does is:

a) strengthen the top clubs even more since they will obviously have the best youth prospects

b) throw unprepared youngsters out into top level football as teams search relentlessly for their future first teamers.

Will football be any better if instead of tens of millions of euros spent on players whom you at least have seen play they are instead spent on prospects?

And would it serve to further national identity any more if Real Madrid's youth academy were filled with Argentinians and Brazilians (whom naturally RM scouts would scour more fastidiously because your youth teamers suddenly are put into a position of forced importance)?

All of this, of course, conveniently sidestepping the reality that we are talking about club football. Club football, by its very definition, is not national side football.

Obviously there's a "feel good factor" when your club side is essentially your national side plus a couple of imports but what does that do for competition? What happens if every Spanish international plays for Real Madrid or Barcelona? Who is everyone else supposed to play? Their youth team? Perhaps they can bolster their squad at a rate of 2 players per year as has been proposed?

As well intentioned as the idea of forcing teams to use their youth teams might be, it's just plain wrong.
 

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Oh yeah i meant to say as well, poaching players under 18 should be banned.
Youth teams shouldn't be able to buy players, it's unfair what Chelsea did to Reggina over Camilleri, Man Utd with Rossi, Macheda, Petrucci.. Arsenal with Fabregas and Lupoli.. even Real Madrid with Raul!
It's not right, at all.
They should prove their worth before they move on to massive clubs, cause those youngsters never seem to make it when they move on, only Fabregas and Raul made it out of those guys so far.
Youngsters yes, shouldn't be playing at the highest level straight away, but that wasn't the point i was making. I was simply saying they should be always ready to be used as a last resort.
Failed talents have no excuse, Huntelaar was getting impatient, VDV also, come on, they've only been here for a matter of months, they signed long term deals and commit their futures to the side, if they ain't up to scratch, they should work harder and do their job when given the chance.
If clubs can't sign youngsters from other professional clubs, then it will all be a test of training and raw talent.
 

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Hi!

I am Timo Grandovec, an almost 18year old kid from Slovenia. First of all, I am great madridista and so on. You know all how it feels.

But I am greatly annoyed by some things in our club, like our ignorance of cantera and homegrown powers. That's why I have decided to write a more extensive paper about this topic and I have also decided to send it to some great journalists in Madrid: Roncero, Relano, Segurola, Sanchis (Manolo) and Ortego. Of course I have send it also to RM Board.

I didn't expect any answer, but I traced out this on Sunday on as. com from Roncero (look at GUTI ROMERO paragraph) http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/futbol-cayo-decima/dasftb/20090301dasdaiftb_29/Tes

Well, about that paper. It is written in English and has about 25 pages (5000 words)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6U16JMTD

In that file are attached the original paper and letters, that I attached in the envelope, when I send it to Madrid

Most of all, I want to hear your opinion about that matter.
Congratulations for your devotion to our badge, pal, and welcome aboard. hope we will have the chance to read more about you very soon.

It is very painful for every madridista to see players like Mata, negredo or Arbeloa playing well and continously for other teams. Unfortunately, we have been very shortsighted in the last years, obsessed with the short-term, and have not shown the patience we need to obtain the best from our canteranos.

Don't ever lose that spirit, man
 

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Go for 400, Raúl!
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Youth teams shouldn't be able to buy players, it's unfair what Chelsea did to Reggina over Camilleri, Man Utd with Rossi, Macheda, Petrucci.. Arsenal with Fabregas and Lupoli.. even Real Madrid with Raul!
Maybe you have receievd wrong news from what happened with Raúl? Atlético simply closed its youth system, and Raúl was left without team. Only then we threw our net over him.
 

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These ideas of limiting transfers and overvaluing the youth systems are extremely short-sighted and really lacking in thought. You're simply creating greater imbalance at an earlier point.

Imagine:

To limit transfers means that a young talent will want to head straight for the academy of the top clubs since, if he trains at another club, it will be harder for him to leave.

By the same token, failed prospects at big clubs will find it hard to leave since other teams will have only one transfer to use. They're not going to use it on a failed prospect.

Then the idea that, if your first teamer is injured then bring up your best youth team player is simply born from misplaced club loyalty. All this does is:

a) strengthen the top clubs even more since they will obviously have the best youth prospects

b) throw unprepared youngsters out into top level football as teams search relentlessly for their future first teamers.

Will football be any better if instead of tens of millions of euros spent on players whom you at least have seen play they are instead spent on prospects?

And would it serve to further national identity any more if Real Madrid's youth academy were filled with Argentinians and Brazilians (whom naturally RM scouts would scour more fastidiously because your youth teamers suddenly are put into a position of forced importance)?

All of this, of course, conveniently sidestepping the reality that we are talking about club football. Club football, by its very definition, is not national side football.

Obviously there's a "feel good factor" when your club side is essentially your national side plus a couple of imports but what does that do for competition? What happens if every Spanish international plays for Real Madrid or Barcelona? Who is everyone else supposed to play? Their youth team? Perhaps they can bolster their squad at a rate of 2 players per year as has been proposed?

As well intentioned as the idea of forcing teams to use their youth teams might be, it's just plain wrong.
Excellent post, I agree people are misunderstanding the incentives in the system when they presume you can have an "improved" situation without giving anything up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@Gwydno, thanks

It is interesting, that we threw away a policiy, that allowed us to be the best club in 20th Century. A policy of Spanish players with addition of few great foreigners like Di Stefano, Rias, Kopa, Hugo Sanchez... It is a shame. The Club just isn't self-conscius enough to see, that every time a foreigner comes and canterano leaves, the Club loses its identity little by little. :yuck:

The sons of Madrid must return to the throne, poetically speaking.

@Gwydno, are you literally from Madrid?
 

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@Gwydno, thanks

It is interesting, that we threw away a policiy, that allowed us to be the best club in 20th Century. A policy of Spanish players with addition of few great foreigners like Di Stefano, Rias, Kopa, Hugo Sanchez... It is a shame. The Club just isn't self-conscius enough to see, that every time a foreigner comes and canterano leaves, the Club loses its identity little by little. :yuck:

The sons of Madrid must return to the throne, poetically speaking.
So, for argument's sake, what is more or less the correct number of sons of Madrid that the team needs to have in order to not lose its identity?

These sons of Madrid, do they actually need to be born in Madrid? Or can they be like Messi who was born elsewhere and even elects to join the national team of his birth country instead of where he was trained as a footballer?

Then if no winning team can be formed with the prescribed number of canteranos, is it acceptable to finish midtable? I mean sure, you'll have to fire all your youth team coaches and trainers for not coming up with any viable players but then what? It'll take years to build another batch of candidates, what do you do in the meantime?
 

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Excellent post, I agree people are misunderstanding the incentives in the system when they presume you can have an "improved" situation without giving anything up.
Exactly man. People seem to be of the idea that Madrid is making this concerted effort to deny players a chance to make it into the first team when this is hardly the truth.

To find the next Raul, the next Cesc, the next Xavi, this would be an absolute dream (not to mention a gold mine) for the club. The rewards that would be reaped would be immense. All clubs understand that local players means bigger following and therefore, bigger revenue.

So really, the problem is just that, despite whatever anyone thinks of the current batch of canteranos, they're just not good enough. We already saw what happened when you make half-baked canteranos your starters. They're capable of good moments but year long consistency? That's what coaching staffs are looking for.
 

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Granero is good enough.
Negredo is good enough.
 

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Bueno was part of the national team which won the 2006 UEFA European Under-19 Football Championship. He was the top scorer of the competition with 5 goals, with teammate Juan Manuel Mata adding 4.

Mata was smart, he left for Valencia to get playing time and to be able to develope as a player while Bueno stayed in Madrid. Look at them now.
 

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Granero is good enough.
Negredo is good enough.
How do you know? You watch a couple of games and listen to a couple of stories?

RM training staff watches, measures and assesses these players up close and personal on a daily basis.
 

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How do you know? You watch a couple of games and listen to a couple of stories?

RM training staff watches, measures and assesses these players up close and personal on a daily basis.
ok. tell me this isnt right.

Negredo better than Saviola.

Granero better than Faubert, more useful than VDV.
 
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