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Discussion Starter #1
Excuse me if this has been in another thread. I saw one about fergies successors and Im sure this has been discussed before, but I cannot get my head around united fans wanting fergie out. When a fan outside of united says it I take it with a pinch of salt, but I dont understand why any united fan would say it.

Not to get too agressive but I think that most fans whom want him out:

1. Only supported the club for a short time and really are bandwagon fans.
2. Have really short term minds and think that success is guaranteed with a new manager.
3. Havent taken into account the chelsea factor which no club in the world can compete with.
4. Think that rebuilding an aging squad is piss easy and can be done over a couple of seasons and we should be straight back to winning ways.
5 are the madrid president and think sacking a manager will solve all problems
6. Are under 10

United crashed out of the champions league for the first time in 8 years at the group stage and people called for his head. This on the back of united losing their 2 main central midfielders for reasons taht were beyond contro of themanager. Yes he should of bought more cover, but is that really a sackable offence. People say that united should be winning trophies but no team deserves the right to demand trophies. The only reason united have such high asperations is because of fergie and him alone. Football has changed, surely he should be given time to change with it. People might ask, how long does he need or how much. Well theres only one team currently better then us in the league, we could very well win a domestic cup and a majority of our players havent peaked yet. We have the likes of Rossi, pique and bardsely coming up through the ranks and apart from 2 CMs I think we are getting much closer to success then people with very narrow minds think. Winning the champions league is in no way connected to winning the league. I think that going out of the champions league could be a blessing in disguise as its taken alot of pressure off the team (particularly while we have no leaders) and has allowed them to toddle along in the shadows of chelsea. I have said it before, if united go into next season and have learned more about their team and found a better system or better playrs, then we will be in a position to challange for serious honors next season. Chelseas secret isnt class, its consistancy.

Fergies buys havent been as bad as has been publicised. People always focus on the negatives when things go bad. Ronaldo, Ruud, Rooney, Heinze, Van de saar, Park, saha, pique, rossi, smith are all quality signings in my opinion. Smith is very good but is played out of position. Obviously this raises question about not getting a CM but he still wasnt a bad buy. I think Fortune is actually better then most people think. He was our best player against milan last season and is a very good squad player. People always say ferdinand was a bad buy, thats bull. It was bad value for money, but he is a quality player.

I have to go for dinner now, so will comment more perhaps depending on how the discussions go. But facts are we are second in the league, in the final of the league cup, in with a shout in the fa cup and for the first time in nearly a decade havent made the knockouts of the cl. And we are doing this with Fletcher and oshea etc in cm, so we are only one or two shy of a really good team. Why the rush to replace fergie?
 

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You missed the point that Fergie has looked dead recently, back in the day he would be on the touchlines bollocking the players and showing alot of passion. Recently he just sits there chewing his gums looking like a zombie. Benfica was the biggest example, it looked like he was a defeated old man.

Fergie has had four years to rebuild the squad, since 2002 the squad started to show signs of aging, particually Roy Keane. He has still not replaced him despite saying years ago the search for a Keane successor was on. The two central midfielders you are on about I presume are the 31 year old off form Scholes and the 35 year old Keane, Fergie is to blame for letting the state of the squad deteriorate to relying on 30+'s to run the midfield and having absolutely no backups of any quality. Now that they are gone it is Fergie's fault that we are left with no midfield whatsoever. That is the price for consistently putting off getting quality replacements for the aging Scholes and Keane.

How can going out of the premier competition of Europe be a blessing? that sounds like the talk of a club that has no aspirations. Even if we are shit we should still give it our all to winning trophies. It is a damning indiciment of the club and management if we have to crash out of Europe just so we can rebuild for next season. Remember, we have not got to the QF's since 02/03 season.

Ronaldo, Ruud, Rooney were gimme's adding to about £60 million. Veron for £30 million was an absolute disaster and money down the drain. It was a waste of the money that the 99' success provided. Now we have no midfield whatsoever and very limited funds to replace it, hence the recent talk of cheap shit like Duscher.

Fortune is an ok squad player but not a player to take us forward, he did miss that sitter against Milan last season (Scholes too). I think Ronaldo was probably the best player against Milan last season. Not a particually good performance from any standout individual though.

IMO we are short of three new central midfield players as O'Shite and Fletcher's son are not good enough to even be backups.
 

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I was well up for getting rid of Fergie sometime before Christmas. At this time i considered,

letting keane go

not having a decent midfield

being knocked out of the CL at the group stage, a group before it started everyone said we would easily get through

Getting beaten by Middlesboro and Lille.

That was then though. Since then though i am starting to change my mind, still think we might need a new manager. I would have rather had a manager who is going to spend the money on players who he would like in his squad. Not having to deal with players that he was left.

Drummer people do focus on the negative things when they go bad, look he has been replacing Keane for how long? He then lets him go while we are playing a striker there? Smithy i think has done alrite there tbh but we could and should do better. I think fans should focus on that.

Saying that, the signings of Evra and Vidic have pleased me and i now realise for a strong squad we just need CM sorted out. We have a good future ahead of us i believe, we are never going to be champions every 2 out of 3 seasons like the 90s.
I know Chelsea are a great team and to get this clost to them with the squad that we have is good. The defeat at Middlesboro we got slated for but looking at it now they have beaten Arsenal and Chelsea there.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
!!

Have to be quick here:

Firstly, fergie got a pacemaker in 2001 which would certainly encourage most people to change their aggressive habits. He is a quality manager not just a motivator or a passionate man. If passion was most important as a manager then graeme souness would be considered world class.

Fletcher hasnt been impressive at all, but he is young and may get better (i dont count on it). I will concede our central midfield is thin but nobody can legislate for scholes or keane.

Who cares what ronaldo, rooney or ruud cost? They are effective quality players. Chelsea spent 20+ million on crespo and Drogba, they have hardly gotten their moneys worth yet this doesnt matter cause chelsea win things, why doesnt mourhino get criticism for these poor value purchases? Veron was in fact a good signing at the time. He was the best midfielder in the serie a and was argentine captain. Nobody could of predicted his impact in england. Where united to spend 30mil on ronaldhino you would be delighted. If he didnt suit the roughness of the epl and flopped you would call it a bad buy. Like i said nobody could of predicted that would be a bad buy.

Going out of europe is never good, but if it means younger players can improve and gain confidence in less pressure environments then its good in the long term. I didnt mean I was happy with it but theres no point in always focusing on the negatives. Clouds can have silver linings and there is always the champions league next season. We have only won it once in fergies reign, so why is it such a big deal that in the end we havent won it this season?

Fergie hasnt had four years to build a squad. He has had four years to add to an aging squad. And now hes up against a new foe. A foe that buys ALL OUR TARGETS. Whoever we bid for they just up it. And of course kenyon took all our potential signings to abrohamavic!

What will capello, lippi or Hitzfeld do? They wont have the resources that their main rivals will have, they will be expected to be instantly successful and will have to deal with this kind of criticism after every defeat!! Capello or lippi would be gone in 4 years irrespective of their succes and hitzfeld has been outa football too long for me.

I still think some of you guys are focusing far too much on the negatives.I dont think any manager or team would be able to compete with chelsea in the league. But I reckon united will be in a position to compete in europe and in the domestic cups next season. Maybe the season after that we could challange for the title. Its not being unambitious its being realistic.
 

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As a reply to the thread question 'Why should fergie go?' he shouldnt.

He is United and nobody can say otherwise. I reckon he will stay on until he wins another champions league. Not before, not after. He is dying to win the Champions League one more time to prove to himself that he is one of the best.
 

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Fizzi Everyone will say that Fergie was one of the best, looking back at his career. He doesn't have to win another CL to prove that.

While Fergie is in charge i believe that we will not win the CL. I don't think he has the ability to take a team past a tricky match like he has done before. Now to win the CL you will need a manager who is going to change the tactics for the better to get past the stubborn oppositon, not throw on saha for giggs and let VDS kick the ball all the way upfield for Saha to knock on for the keeper or bring little inexperienced Rossi on in the 85th minute to see what he could do.
 

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FiveMagics said:
You missed the point that Fergie has looked dead recently, back in the day he would be on the touchlines bollocking the players and showing alot of passion. Recently he just sits there chewing his gums looking like a zombie. Benfica was the biggest example, it looked like he was a defeated old man.

and im sure he did feel like a deafeated man. that was a relatively depressing period for the club and everone involved, and its natural for peoples heads to sink every now and then. But look at the vigor and passion hes displaying now.. hes still up for the fight, and hes bought the pride back to OT.. a successful blend of attractive football and winning results, backed with the personell capable of doing so.. theres just one problematic area, which is CM, and hes directly spoken about it mentioning hes going to brng in 2 players, and one is cup tied etc. in other words, hes very objective about it and im finally getting the impression he knows exaclty what the team needs and is on his way to doing that for us.

i too was calling for his head at the time, and i feel like an asshole for doing so.. but he deserves our trust, hes won back my faith, and at the moment and probably for the near future is the best man for the job.
 

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The mob is fickle.

Sir Alex is a victim of his own extraordinary high standards, United are expected to win. Anything other than a win is unsatisfactory, ending a season trophyless is unsatisfactory, not doing well in Europe is unsatisfactory.

People are happy to keep him as manager whilst United win games, however if it weren't for our attackers playing out of their socks and scoring goals a plenty, I suspect we wouldn't be so comfortably sitting in 2nd spot.

The midfield situation right now is dire, there's no other superlatives for it. Dire.

Having said that, I have been nothing but impressed with the great man's signings over the last year; VDS, Park, Vidic, Evra. It is just a shame the Obi Mikel situation hasn't (so far) worked out, because he would be a wonderful addition to the fantastic youth players at United already.

In short, I feel that we're a couple of solid midfielders away from challening for titles again.

Failure to address the midfield situation once and for all this summer though, will more than likely be tantamount to signing his own resignation. He isn't far away from his 3rd great team, so long as it is completed within the next 6 months i'm happy to see Fergie stay.
 

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yeah but Simba, it isnt easy to grab the signature of a world class midfielder to sort the midfield problem. his problem in buying midfielders has started with poborsky, cruyff onwards. i dont think its that easy to sort the midfield problem with just buying quality. we seem to forget that we once boasted a midfield with what we had, not what we bought. giggs, beckham, scholes were products from the youth academy, we never bought a world class midfielder simply cuz we couldnt afford it or they simply didnt suit the premiership. we've always had attackers who scored plenty goals a season, may i remind u mcclair, cole, yorke, solskjaer, etc.
i dont see how hiddink, hitzfeld or capello can do a better job. i doubt they would win the premiership with united, as chelsea will always be consistent, and united will never have the ability to buy good players without chelsea interfering.
i agree with drummer, if there is a man who can do it for united, it's sir alex and no one else.
 

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Gordy said:
Fizzi Everyone will say that Fergie was one of the best, looking back at his career. He doesn't have to win another CL to prove that.

While Fergie is in charge i believe that we will not win the CL. I don't think he has the ability to take a team past a tricky match like he has done before. Now to win the CL you will need a manager who is going to change the tactics for the better to get past the stubborn oppositon, not throw on saha for giggs and let VDS kick the ball all the way upfield for Saha to knock on for the keeper or bring little inexperienced Rossi on in the 85th minute to see what he could do.
Your right but i have a feeling that fergie is getting back to his best, like in 99. i think that he is going to improve his squad in the summer and when he does the champions league next season will be the one for him.
As for Saha he is crap but he does make a difference and rossi will definately step up next season.
 

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BooM said:
yeah but Simba, it isnt easy to grab the signature of a world class midfielder to sort the midfield problem.
Well you say that, but Barcelona, Chelsea, Juve, Milan, Inter, Lyon, Bayern, et al have all managed to cobble together respectable midfields without too much perspiration.

Are we not in the same bracket of stature as those clubs?

Our midfield is frankly embarassing when compared either on paper, or on grass next to the other big European clubs.

Whilst Fergie is still winning games and having good cup runs he's buying himself time to fix the midfield monstrosity once and for all in the summer. This time though, he should make sure it gets done properly.

My thoughts are still unwavering however, we're an inch away from realistically challenging for titles again, an inch can be the difference between winning or losing.

Sort the midfield, and we have a great team. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
!!

Its a shame theirs no option to do a pole here as it would be interesting to see whos with him and against him!!

I agree that if we didnt sort out the CM problem in the summer then something is definantly wrong but theres no ready made replacement for keane. Remember we had keane and scholes at the start of the season. Fergie considers fletcher to be somebody for the future (i hope we are all proven wrong and fergie right). Alot of young players have had to step up to the pressure plate earlier then fergie would of liked because of our CM problems. I do agree taht we shuold of had more cover but perhaps the player that fergie wanted wasnt available at the start of the season. I believe in waiting for the right man instead of buying 2nd best.

Essien and Obi were two CM's that we were going to buy but look what happened there. (we were going to get essien for 7mil b4 chelsea started bidding for him). We all know theat kenyon totally screwed united by taking all our future signings list to chelsea. Does everybody forget that he used to work for unietd and that he was always invloved in our transfers. He knew exactly who united were planning on signing over the next couple of seasons including robben and czezh. We all remember that uinited had Ronaldhino until kenyon and the board decided to offer less money after already agreeing a fee to PSG. Fergie cant be blamed for that!!!
 

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Yes, the lacklustre midfield isn't through want of trying.

Targets were Robben, Ronaldinho, Essien, Obi Mikel, and signings were Kleberson, Miller, Djemba, Fletcher etc.

On the point of Kenyon, don't you find it a little odd that Beckham was sold to Madrid for a little more than £15m?... The most marketable player on earth, sold to one of the richest clubs around, for a transfer fee they made up over night in shirt sales.

I'm still sour about selling Beckham, we've not had anyone since who can cross or take free kicks even remotely like he could. His presence and influence in the United team was grossly unappreciated.

I'm also outright angry about the Obi Mikel situation, that boy should have been playing for us by now, as per his contract. It would not surprise me in the slightest if that slithering, slimey, cheese-bastard Kenyon had something to do with troubles of that trasnfer.

Anyway, moaning about Kenyon and failed transfer dealings isn't going to get us anywhere. Even Liverpool have managed to sign a few good midfielders whilst we've been floundering, it's simply not good enough.

Our midfield needs both steel & creativity, at least two good quality signings this summer.

Anything less than a convincing midfield resolution will be met with considerable dissapointment at least on my behalf.
 
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