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Discussion Starter #1
Remember a few years ago when VDV was touted as the next Zidane / Ronaldinho.

He was so promising, ripping the Dutch league apart and looked to be moving to one of Europes power teams.

Where do you beleive he is now and will he ever be anything more than a good-average player?
 

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He had one good season, nothing more. Since then he's become an overweight primadonna who thinks he can make the same claims as the 95 Ajax generation, without having done anything worth mentioning.

A few years back Ajax had a #10 named Knopper who was hyped, but flopped, VDV is destined for that same road to obscurity.

Now if you want a real Ajax-talent, just so people don't think I'm biased, Babel is the one. Explosive, great finisher, watch out for him.
 

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Van der Vaart is 21 not 31. isn't this a bit premature?

Hardly anyone had even heard of Deco or Nedved until they were in their mid twenties and then all of a sudden almost every one was hailing him as among the best in Europe. It's unfair to write Van der Vaart of already in my opinion. It will be interesting to see what happens when he moves to a different country.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Vagabondo said:
Van der Vaart is 21 not 31. isn't this a bit premature?

Hardly anyone had even heard of Deco or Nedved until they were in their mid twenties and then all of a sudden almost every one was hailing him as among the best in Europe. It's unfair to write Van der Vaart of already in my opinion. It will be interesting to see what happens when he moves to a different country.
Mi hardly writing him off. He may still come good and be sold to a Barca / Inter.

However when he was 17/18/19 he was talked up as 'the best youngester in the world' etc.

I doubt he will ever reach his potential.
 

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He was great for a while,but then the media start writing the expectations that he would be "the next this or the next that"...he just couldn't live up to it..Last year he had a few good games,but nothing compared to his best season..
The boy has talent,thats for sure,but you have to have more then that..
When koeman took away his captaincy,he started to play greedy..you could see that he wanted to prove that koeman was wrong..
 

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South_Melbourne said:
Mi hardly writing him off. He may still come good and be sold to a Barca / Inter.

However when he was 17/18/19 he was talked up as 'the best youngester in the world' etc.

I doubt he will ever reach his potential.
Your question was "Why didn't he mature into a good player?". I just found it interesting because;

a) He already is a good player.

b) Most people would agree a 21 year old player is not a fully developed.

That is writing him off in terms of his achievements so far. He's scored a lot of goals for Ajax and has several caps and goals for his country. So what if his career is stagnating at Ajax? maybe it just means he needs a bigger stage.

Being the "best youngster in the world" is exactly that anyway, a temporary title. the way you say that phrase it doesn't even have anything to do with potential.

You might say the same thing about Fabregas in the sense that he may be the best 17 year old player in the world now. it won't mean anything in 4 years time though.
 

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he needs to go to a club where he isn't the star name, training with made players will help bring him down a peg or two, then he must work hard , then he can be judged.
 

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Vagabondo said:
Your question was "Why didn't he mature into a good player?". I just found it interesting because;

a) He already is a good player.

b) Most people would agree a 21 year old player is not a fully developed.

That is writing him off in terms of his achievements so far. He's scored a lot of goals for Ajax and has several caps and goals for his country. So what if his career is stagnating at Ajax? maybe it just means he needs a bigger stage.

Being the "best youngster in the world" is exactly that anyway, a temporary title. the way you say that phrase it doesn't even have anything to do with potential.

You might say the same thing about Fabregas in the sense that he may be the best 17 year old player in the world now. it won't mean anything in 4 years time though.
He's been sh*te the past year and a half, he's even benched at ajax now and ajax is having an off-season as well. Only Marco Van Basten has kept confidence in VDV, but he isnt a regular with "Oranje" either. He just has shown bad mentality over and over again. Once he got a little famous he thought he was king of the world, whichwasn't the case. In fact I don't rate any of the Ajax Youngsters of that period as highly I think only Sneijder will become a household name in world football while guys like stekelenburg,de jong,heitinga and vdvaart havent progressed as they should have...I believe much more in Ryan Babel who has already shown he's tough by playing left wing, a position VdV at a time refused, what resulted in major problems with ex-coach R Koeman...He just has to get real and we must consider hes just not that good as previously claimed(BTW he never ripped anything apart, he has never been really dominant over a bigger period)...

OFF-Topic:I think the same will happen to fabregas, id ont see the hype(imHo)
 

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van der vaart thinks he is better than really is. his attitude stinks, he wouldnt play on the left wing because in his words he was a 'midfielder'. a great team like ajax have seen better and rightfully stripped his captaincy. van der vaarts career is the same as harry kewell. both talented but have huge EGOS
 

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MutOofd said:
I think the same will happen to fabregas, id ont see the hype(imHo)

No, it won't. The VDV case is the example of a player can be bigger than a manager or club management. In Arsenal, there's absolutely no way for that kind of thing to happen. This is why we let talents like Anelka and Upson go. We never hesitate to sell or let go players who complaints for being sitting on bench.

And I agree with Jern that VDV should go to the club where he is no longer the biggest star on the team and he has to follow the seniority order to make him realize that 'who is the boss' now.
 

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Zhuge Liang said:
No, it won't. The VDV case is the example of a player can be bigger than a manager or club management. In Arsenal, there's absolutely no way for that kind of thing to happen. This is why we let talents like Anelka and Upson go. We never hesitate to sell or let go players who complaints for being sitting on bench.
I think he was really talking about talent not egos. In the balance of probabilities Fabregas probably won't end up being a great, it's as simple as that. He's good for a 17 year old but that's all. like i've said in the past maybe one day he'll be as good as someone like Vieira but don't bet your house on it right now.
 

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Vagabondo said:
I think he was really talking about talent not egos. In the balance of probabilities Fabregas probably won't end up being a great, it's as simple as that. He's good for a 17 year old but that's all. like i've said in the past maybe one day he'll be as good as someone like Vieira but don't bet your house on it right now.

All we know is he is doing great right now and have nice personality as young talent, and that's all matters for us now. Whether he is going to be a great player like Vieira or not is not important and we just can only hope and trust that kid that someday he will be. As long as he stayed behave and have good attitude, the chance for him to develop is bigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
arfy05 said:
van der vaarts career is the same as harry kewell. both talented but have huge EGOS
Bit harsh.

Kewel knows he is good but when talking about arrogant players Harry does not come to mind.

Injuries have just fecked him up. Hopfully he will bounce back.
 

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South_Melbourne said:
Pfft.

try Totti champ.
I think i've given a reasonable account on this matter.

Furthermore, I really couldn't be bothered arguing with someone who comes up with;

"Kewell knows he is good" (in spite of Kewell being an overpaid to$$er who has done 4/5 of f*** all to prove it so far in his career)

and "when talking about arrogant players Kewell does not come to mind"

in the same sentence.

you don't seem capable of building up an argument that holds water on it's own. let alone constructing one that stands up to reason or any logical assessment whatsoever.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Vagabondo said:
I think i've given a reasonable account on this matter.
Because you cannot argue Totti isnt a arrogant, self loving wanker.

Kewell knows he is good" (in spite of Kewell being an overpaid to$$er who has done 4/5 of f*** all to prove it so far in his career)
Kewel at the hight of his powers was simply world class.

and "when talking about arrogant players Kewell does not come to mind"

in the same sentence.
No, Kewel does not.

He'd be far behind the likes of Totti, Ronaldo...

you don't seem capable of building up an argument that holds water on it's own. let alone one that stands up to reason or any logical assessment.
And you a knob. :thmbup:
 

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South_Melbourne said:
Because you cannot argue Totti isnt a arrogant, self loving wanker.
I've often said that arrogance is a problem for him, but he's not exactly unique in this respect.

South_Melbourne said:
Kewel at the hight of his powers was simply world class.
:dielaugh: :wallbang:

South_Melbourne said:
No, Kewel does not.

He'd be far behind the likes of Totti, Ronaldo...
Mostly in terms of ability.
He's got a pretty big mouth on him actually...

South_Melbourne said:
And you a knob. :thmbup:
I'd still rather be me than you though :thmbup:
 

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Vagabondo said:
I think he was really talking about talent not egos. In the balance of probabilities Fabregas probably won't end up being a great, it's as simple as that. He's good for a 17 year old but that's all. like i've said in the past maybe one day he'll be as good as someone like Vieira but don't bet your house on it right now.
Fabregas is not just good for a 17 year old at all, his perormances are up there with the top players in the EPL this year, his talent is unquestionable and his maturity is way beyonf that of someone like vdv at this stage.
 
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