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RIP Alton Ellis
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Sí, Franco va morir fa molts anys o no te n'havies adonat?
So as soon as we get a debate going about one of the most serious problems facing football at the moment, the thread is closed because some merengueass objects to it. Coming from a country where you and your parents weren't allowed to speak your own language for over 35 years, it's surprising you're so quick to shut people up.
Not only that, it was the thread of the Barça match on Saturday. I don't know if you bothered to watch it or not but the thing that stood out more than the goals, VV's saves or Puyol's dire mistakes was constant monkey chanting and insults of all sorts directed at Barcelona, Catalonia and Carod Rovira. I followed the match on Canal + in Catalan and at times they were louder than the commentator. I don't give a toss what happens on other forums because I only follow this one and the music one and have only visited the merengue forum once or twice in over 4 years.
So come on , save the thread closing for racism, xenophobia, homophobia and so on and let us talk.
 

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Agreed. This is such a debatable subject that it would be a crime not to discuss it. If this forum can't accept that I strongly doubt I want to be a part of it. It's our right to be able to such important things since it's actually our players who're facing it. The worst things in life and football is now a big part of spanish football - racism. If it's never discussed, it can never be solved. Saying that it shouldn't be discussed here is stupid since that's just moving the problem forward and to others. Closing a thread as soon as something controversal appears isn't sane and this subject is a hell more important than some thread about Xavi's cat having the flue.
 

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Robban said:
Agreed. This is such a debatable subject that it would be a crime not to discuss it. If this forum can't accept that I strongly doubt I want to be a part of it. It's our right to be able to such important things since it's actually our players who're facing it. The worst things in life and football is now a big part of spanish football - racism. If it's never discussed, it can never be solved. Saying that it shouldn't be discussed here is stupid since that's just moving the problem forward and to others. Closing a thread as soon as something controversal appears isn't sane and this subject is a hell more important than some thread about Xavi's cat having the flue.
Yes, it's great to talk about racism until a poster begin to insult other posters. Maybe I should have left the thread open and report your continuous mania of calling people "stupid" or things like this. Don't worry, next time I'll act as a FM should act with troublemakers.
 

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The Ties That Bind
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I have to say that I agree that the topic of racism was a valid discussion point in the Barça-Getafe thread. The commentator of the broadcast that I watched commented on it right away as he could hear the chants and speaks Spanish. He also brought it up at the end of the match as well. I could hear chants, but that's all I could hear and I couldn't translate what was being said. Either way it's been well documented and it is a serious problem. One would think that with all the press over the past week or two covering the problem that folks wouldn't be so bold as to keep doing it. IMO that illustrates just how bad the problem is. Another big red flag are the comments of Getafe's Nano: "They weren't shouting at Eto'o because they are racist, it was just because they wanted to annoy him". ( http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1361741,00.html ). I read somewhere that he said something like "they didn't mean it as racism, more as just a wind-up." If that isn't the biggest load of crap... I'm not saying it's just a Spanish problem as it's rife throughout the game. However Spanish officials really need to clean this up. IMO they don't seem to care too much though as Aragones' comments were greeted with a blind eye.

I also think that the issue of the closed thread needs to be addressed. I personally feel that the thread should not have been closed. I don't know what's been said in other forums on XT, but IMO the discussion here was civil. That's not what I want to address so much though. What I do want to say though is that whether I or anyone else here agrees with K4's decision to close the thread is one thing, but I would never question his motives. I've known K4 for over a year now and we've discussed a lot of issues and disagreed our fair share of the time. At the end of the day though I have nothing but respect for him. We've been moderators together before and he's one of the best Mods i've ever had the priviledge of posting with. Being a Moderator isn't necessarily the most fun job in the cyber world, but someone like K4 does it to give back to the forum that's been provided to him.

BTW, that damn cat's flu better not be contagious! If we lose Xavi I'll probably cry! ;)
 

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Why discuss racism? Just attend to it with the same methods that we use for the remaining problems in the world, sweep it under the rug and hope that god never sees it :rolleyes:
 

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I'll re-open the thread, but next time I won't forgive any kind of insult or any kind of post that doesn't show the appropiate respect to the rest of posters.
 

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Koeman4 said:
Yes, it's great to talk about racism until a poster begin to insult other posters. Maybe I should have left the thread open and report your continuous mania of calling people "stupid" or things like this. Don't worry, next time I'll act as a FM should act with troublemakers.
Maybe you should try and get some sleep at nights insted of spending it infront of the CPU. A good night sleep makes you control your temper better. Honesty is always important. But it's also always a fine line between being honest and too honest. Perhaps I crossed the line, but geting to read all those two line sentances who at times are really "stupid", just as all newspaper articles that some have a habit of posting. It can also be cause of my limited vocabulury. Not all of us have english as our motherslanguage which makes it custom for problems to occur while typing and translating something from you own language to another which can have a completly diffrent significant. You're also reading too much into to the writiing and taking it personal is a big error. Afterall, who're we kidding? It's an Internet community even if some sees it as their most precious part of their lifes. I don't think my generleizings of Madrid fans are any worse than the ones you do with english people and always takes it so personal anytime someone is talking done Spain. The things we see on teve from World Cups, The Euro and International matches with english so called supporters are very diffrent from the ones that goes to matches in the Premiership. If ever been, you'd know. I never talk about things I've never experienced. I've never been to Greece, but I've met Phanatinaikos fans that threw coins at me in Camp Nou, that doesn't make my conclusion that greeks are an ignorant people. I also can't stand the continous reply from FM's that everything should be repported. If it makes you feel powerfull and really big, well then go ahead. Maybe the forum would work alot better with all people with knowledge and a critical thinking dissapeard and left it over in the hands of the gloryhunters, the junior citizens and the spamers?
 

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Robban said:
Maybe you should try and get some sleep at nights insted of spending it infront of the CPU. A good night sleep makes you control your temper better. Honesty is always important. But it's also always a fine line between being honest and too honest. Perhaps I crossed the line, but geting to read all those two line sentances who at times are really "stupid", just as all newspaper articles that some have a habit of posting. It can also be cause of my limited vocabulury. Not all of us have english as our motherslanguage which makes it custom for problems to occur while typing and translating something from you own language to another which can have a completly diffrent significant. You're also reading too much into to the writiing and taking it personal is a big error. Afterall, who're we kidding? It's an Internet community even if some sees it as their most precious part of their lifes. I don't think my generleizings of Madrid fans are any worse than the ones you do with english people and always takes it so personal anytime someone is talking done Spain. The things we see on teve from World Cups, The Euro and International matches with english so called supporters are very diffrent from the ones that goes to matches in the Premiership. If ever been, you'd know. I never talk about things I've never experienced. I've never been to Greece, but I've met Phanatinaikos fans that threw coins at me in Camp Nou, that doesn't make my conclusion that greeks are an ignorant people. I also can't stand the continous reply from FM's that everything should be repported. If it makes you feel powerfull and really big, well then go ahead. Maybe the forum would work alot better with all people with knowledge and a critical thinking dissapeard and left it over in the hands of the gloryhunters, the junior citizens and the spamers?

Check your PMs
 

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Needless to say it's sickening and frightening when there are thousands of fans in the stadium and the loudest thing you hear are monkey noises to ridicule black players. With such things, I always think it's rather stupidity than racism, you know, the inhibition treshold (if that is the correct word) is simply lower when you are in between a mass in a football stadium. I just like to believe that it's rather about going with the mass and thinking "this is fun" than ideology-driven. Of course it's hard to ignore and you can't really tell the affected players to not feel offended, after all it's just stupiditiy. In the end it's probably just a matter of definition.
The only thing that will work is condemnation from all sides including the sane fans and the players from the own team (who might be have a little bit of influence on their own fans).

Good decision to re-open the match thread again, by the way.

P.S: I liked it when Eto'o shut him up towards the end of first half with a great shot from just outside the box. :cool:
 

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I think Koeman was right in closing the thread as emotions were running too high and some insults were being thrown.

Robban: don't need to use the word stupid refered to other posters to put your arguments across. I am sure your English is good enough to use a more appropiate language.
 

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Interesting post (or repost) by Politician. I don't normally like to reply here in the Barca area but I found Politician's views to be quite engaging. By paragraph, I thought:

1. Yes motor accidents and instant coffee are bad but they cannot be compared to racism. Racism is an evil facet of human emotion that is not accidental, like motor accidents, and is deliberately spiteful, unlike instant coffee which was at least attempted with good intentions.

2. Yes football is a way to blow off steam but just like you can't punch or taunt guys you play with, you cannot then give spectators a blanket pass to act however they wish, regardless of whether they shelled out money to sit and watch a game. I dunno, you argue otherwise, but I don't care how much hidden (or unhidden) resentment you carry into a game, you just can't act on it imperiously.

3. I think the same way about football. I don't know why fans keep ascribing some sort of higher ideal to the current crop of professionals. I think the days of the "company man" died with Baresi. I believe today's footballers are professionals and will be loyal to a team, but only assuming first of all that they get paid what they want. If they don't get that, they're off to the team that'll show them the money.

The idea that football is somehow pure and above the laws of sports franchises and marketing is, to me, ridiculous. What is true though is that sports teams and brands would want you to believe that.

4. I'd like to see this post where Che says the the Ultra Sur are normal. And why do you study a small minority to extrapolate the behavior of the majority?

At any rate, plenty of good points. Your repost was good reading.
 

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MxPx said:
Needless to say it's sickening and frightening when there are thousands of fans in the stadium and the loudest thing you hear are monkey noises to ridicule black players. With such things, I always think it's rather stupidity than racism, you know, the inhibition treshold (if that is the correct word) is simply lower when you are in between a mass in a football stadium. I just like to believe that it's rather about going with the mass and thinking "this is fun" than ideology-driven. Of course it's hard to ignore and you can't really tell the affected players to not feel offended, after all it's just stupiditiy. In the end it's probably just a matter of definition.
The only thing that will work is condemnation from all sides including the sane fans and the players from the own team (who might be have a little bit of influence on their own fans).

Good decision to re-open the match thread again, by the way.

P.S: I liked it when Eto'o shut him up towards the end of first half with a great shot from just outside the box. :cool:
I think you are right in you view. Obviously this chants have an underlying racist element but I also think that part of the reason for using them is the stupidity of the masses and the "fun" element trying to wind-up hated rivals. Roger has mentioned that he heard those chants directed at Ronaldinho. I didn't hear them but if they existed they were far less than the ones Etoo received, and the only reason I can think of is that Etoo used to be a Real Madrid player, and Getafe supporters have Real Madrid as their second team if not their first.
But this behaviour should not be tolerated and strong measures should be taken by all the authorities in Spanish football.
 

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I can't believe Xavi's cat got the flu... I hope he is OK... poor kitty.
WHEN WILL THESE INJURIES STOP?
I have to go to elmundodeportivo.es now and check on his status.
 

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We are essentially in agreement so I guess there isn't a lot to say.

I'm saying that bad things happen all the time. We should do what we can and recognise the limits of human nobility.

I don't want to intend this to become something about hypocrisy, but it is the logical evolution in the argument. What are subsidies for our farmers, industries, manufacturers if it's not racism manifested in law? Every first-world, developed nation I can think of have such a policy, with the knowledge that this will mean that far more people across Africa and other regions will be materially far more worse off than the benefits this gives our farmers, industries, manufacturers...

To get on the high horse about racism in football is of course then ridiculous. But we should do what we can just the same, no? Madrid haven't done anything about the Ultra Sur since Franco, and all that needs doing is to ban them and stop allocating a portion of seating for them to "show support" for Madrid. Maybe the Sur can all then get girlfriends, be occupied with love and stop their weekly exercise of proving their machismo and beating their chicken-d1cks at the expense of the coloured and non-Spanish players.
 

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zyad said:
I can't believe Xavi's cat got the flu... I hope he is OK... poor kitty.
WHEN WILL THESE INJURIES STOP?
I have to go to elmundodeportivo.es now and check on his status.
Reportedly the cat sneaked in to Camp Nou, ran on the pitch, and now it has 4 bad knees :happy:
 

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Angel_Culé said:
I think you are right in you view. Obviously this chants have an underlying racist element but I also think that part of the reason for using them is the stupidity of the masses and the "fun" element trying to wind-up hated rivals. Roger has mentioned that he heard those chants directed at Ronaldinho. I didn't hear them but if they existed they were far less than the ones Etoo received, and the only reason I can think of is that Etoo used to be a Real Madrid player, and Getafe supporters have Real Madrid as their second team if not their first.
But this behaviour should not be tolerated and strong measures should be taken by all the authorities in Spanish football.
Max the volum on your hearing device then, old man. Was that your own words or did you just copy them from AS or the spanish FA?
 

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Barca_Nordic said:
Reportedly the cat sneaked in to Camp Nou, ran on the pitch, and now it has 4 bad knees :happy:
Thank you for your great contribution for the sake of this forum. I can't understand how it could survive for this long without your precious precence.
 

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Robban said:
Max the volum on your hearing device then, old man. Was that your own words or did you just copy them from AS or the spanish FA?
Actually my hearing is pretty bad, but still could hear very loud the chants directed at Etoo, and failed to hear those at Ronaldinho from the version I got of the game (downloaded from the internet). But I never said they didn't exist, young man.
 

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I'll edit the name of the thread. Clarified everything with Roger, if you don't mind, I'll erase the Franco comment.

K4
 
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