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Discussion Starter #1
the palestine isreal issue will never be solved only more and more death...

the us elections will not make any difference.....jsut cause they shuffle em every 4 years dont mean we see any actual changes.....only rhetorical ones...

the serbs and the croats and bosnians and albanians will continue to slaughter eachother as they ahve done for over 100 years...

terrorism is the intangible foe that is everywhere and you really cant be safe from it no matter what.....any most actions taken to prevent terrorism lead to thousands more youths volunteering to become terrorists....


and to top it all of mother nature is going wacko and wants to get us all the hell of this planet.....



i think i finally know why pila supports the mars funding plan.....this place is doomed

so i ask all of you...why bother discussing this when nothing ever changes?
 

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Lav said:
so i ask all of you...why bother discussing this when nothing ever changes?
Because there is always the hope for change. These things do not happen randomly; they occur for a reason. Therefore, the problems can be solved.

Where the trouble lies is that people are all too often unreasonable and want to look at things from one side only. Black or white, right or wrong, with us or against us... it is just easier and more comfortable than to try to consider multiple points of view.
 

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Puh-leaze, an all-Milanista mars has big fat failure all over it. God knows what Berlusconi would be up to there...

Back to the topic, we bother discussing because as long as the ability to change is still part of the human psyche, there is hope.
 

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bob, what the heck is that supposed to be?

Sadly, I think Lav's pessimism is well founded.

I've only been to the middle east once, but I was there for a month on 92, and got to meet a lot of people. Of course everyone has a strong opinion.

At home here in Toronto, I have Jewish friends that have been close to my family forever, and I've met lots of Jewish people at work and school.

It's depressing, but I think, there's is no solution to the middle east in the near future. An angel could descend from the sky and tell both sides that it brought the solution from God, and they'd reject it. I think that's true, because the desire to hurt the other side is stronger than the desire for peace. Both sides may say they want to live in peace, but I don't belive it. Hate is the strongest force in this drama.
 

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I've said this a million times - Man is the fiercest territorial animal on this planet. There can not be peace there because no man is willing to give up real estate. This is simply too strong of an instinct to overcome as a whole.

Historically speaking, only in cases where there has been a clear winner, where one side has to relent COMPLETELY has there been any significant period of peace as a consequence in conflicts of this nature. Any agreements of half concessions are usually only good until those who brokered the agreements are out of power. Then, it's merely a matter of time before one of the sides violates it on account of being stiffed on an unfair deal.

The only other solutions recorded in history have been by foreign invasion upon both sides. And peace in such situations only lasts as long as the foreign powers remain in control.
 

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There can not be peace there because no man is willing to give up real estate. This is simply too strong of an instinct to overcome as a whole.
I agree, and would further. Even with all his material desires granted, man will still look for a reason for violence. What do you think professional sport is based on? ;)
 

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A Samih Qasim poem -

O virgin desert!
Here we are, sent by the heart and mind
on an official mission
to build the world anew.
To prepare it once again
for another Apocalypse!
 

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Pila said:
I've said this a million times - Man is the fiercest territorial animal on this planet. There can not be peace there because no man is willing to give up real estate. This is simply too strong of an instinct to overcome as a whole.
I agree with this portion of your post..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Re: why bother

Tim said:

Where the trouble lies is that people are all too often unreasonable and want to look at things from one side only. Black or white, right or wrong, with us or against us... it is just easier and more comfortable than to try to consider multiple points of view.
a palestinian whose house was demolished a dad killed in he streets by israeli gun that "goes off" will not see a multiple point of view

neither willl the isreali who looses his wife to a suicide bombing


there is no way we can make them consider the other point of view....when they would sacrifice themselves just to deny the other side...they value their own death as less then the death of thier enemy.....how can you make them understand anything
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Pila said:


Historically speaking, only in cases where there has been a clear winner, where one side has to relent COMPLETELY has there been any significant period of peace as a consequence in conflicts of this nature. Any agreements of half concessions are usually only good until those who brokered the agreements are out of power. Then, it's merely a matter of time before one of the sides violates it on account of being stiffed on an unfair deal.

The only other solutions recorded in history have been by foreign invasion upon both sides. And peace in such situations only lasts as long as the foreign powers remain in control.
pila is right on both accounts....im reading a history of the balkans and its amazing....everytime a new govt comes to power it persecutes all members of the previous one....and this includes....serbia, croatia, bulgaria, greece and the factious figting over macedonia....same this happened in russia.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Flo said:
What poem is that Bob?
the poem is basically saying
our hearts and minds are building a new world....with the only purpose being to destory that world.

saying we are in a perpetual cycle.....


sad but true
 

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Re: Re: Re: why bother

Lav said:
a palestinian whose house was demolished a dad killed in he streets by israeli gun that "goes off" will not see a multiple point of view

neither willl the isreali who looses his wife to a suicide bombing


there is no way we can make them consider the other point of view....when they would sacrifice themselves just to deny the other side...they value their own death as less then the death of thier enemy.....how can you make them understand anything
The inexistance of the opposite side is now more important then their own existance.

To get better, it'll have to become a lot worse if one is to make a prediction based on history.

Perhaps this is now Sharon's aim.
 

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Re: Re: Re: why bother

Lav said:
a palestinian whose house was demolished a dad killed in he streets by israeli gun that "goes off" will not see a multiple point of view

neither willl the isreali who looses his wife to a suicide bombing
That's it. Emotion takes over and reason goes out the window. Of course fighting terrorism with occupation and fighting occupation with terrorism is like trying to cure lung cancer with asbestos, but people aren't interested in that when "removing the problem" by force or at least getting revenge is the only thing that matters.
 

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That's it. Emotion takes over and reason goes out the window. Of course fighting terrorism with occupation and fighting occupation with terrorism is like trying to cure lung cancer with asbestos, but people aren't interested in that when "removing the problem" by force or at least getting revenge is the only thing that matters.
Just curious Tim, how you planning to extricate yourself from the god awful mess you'll be in when other Texans find out about posts like this? ;)
 

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Tinto said:
Just curious Tim, how you planning to extricate yourself from the god awful mess you'll be in when other Texans find out about posts like this? ;)
Tinto just asked the milion dollar question :D

Hey Tim, I wouldn't go driving by any saloons soon....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Re: Re: Re: why bother

Pila said:
The inexistance of the opposite side is now more important then their own existance.

To get better, it'll have to become a lot worse if one is to make a prediction based on history.

Perhaps this is now Sharon's aim.
if it is i have to say he is doing a great job of moving the situation to F.U.B.A.R.

aslo pila....can it really get worse....when i value your death more then my life.....if we cna sink lower as humans....then i am truly sad
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Re: Re: Re: why bother

Tim said:
That's it. Emotion takes over and reason goes out the window. Of course fighting terrorism with occupation and fighting occupation with terrorism is like trying to cure lung cancer with asbestos, but people aren't interested in that when "removing the problem" by force or at least getting revenge is the only thing that matters.
great point


i agree with you fully.......but like you said no one is intrested in removing the problem. those in power are kept there becasue of the problem and they sure as hell dont want it gone. and those who casue the hell cause it till those in power leave....but if they leave then the terrorists win and that cant be....


we are locked in a cycle that is really becoming sad.....



btw as others have said.....u are texan and u voted for bush last time (i know this from MM) what happened since.....you been brainwashed.....id imagine dem texans would sentance you to the death penalty if they read what u are writing here ;)
 
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