Xtratime Community banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This has been a pattern that was going on for at least three years. We play awful in the first game and lose badly, i.e. Mexico's five and Japan's four (that one should have been at least six). Even in the qualifiers and the Gulf cup we started awfully in these tournaments. I still can't believe the chances Bashar, Huwiadi and co. kept missing in the Gulf cup opener. To me, a loss by four goals to Japan equals a loss by five goals to Mexico, which in turn equals 8 goals by Geramny. Germany simply has more fire power. The funny thing is that in our friendly against Brazil, they had almost as many good chances as Germany had but kept wasting them. The prolongation of the 0-0 score made us look better.

What is even funnier is that in these tournaments (Confed. and Asian) after the first game massacre the team suddenly improves. The players pass acurately, play with heart and really do appear disciplined and implementing a game plan. It is not simply a psychologic effect. There must be something seriously wrong in the camp or something wrong with the players. I mean do they intentionally play and lose badly to lower expectations and then get big bonuses when they do better later on? Probably not, but who knows.

We can claim that our players have limited abilities, are badly coached, lack in the physical build, etc.. But what about heart, pride, nationalism etc.. Japan and USA lost all their matches in 98 but they won everybody's respect. Our players, all of them, had none of that. There is no such thing as losing composure, hope, balance or whatever at this stage. This can happen in player's personal life, or even in their clubs. But when fighting for their country, they must fight till the end. It's not just three points at stake, it's the whole nation's pride on the line. Strangely, this phenomena does not happen to our clubs. Even Al-Nasr who is regarded by many as the weakest of the big 4 played superbly in WCC and barely lost to Real Madrid in a match that could have gone both ways.

We the fans must also admit our own share of the blame. We have elevated our club stars' status so high and made them untouchable. I mean was Yami better than Jamaan, was Sami better than Shehan or Obeid, was Dookhi better than Shilia, was Takar better than Khalil, was Noor better than Al-Ghamdi, was Abdul-ghani better than Sagri, is Dayea really better than Khojali, has Suleiman lost it, was Saad missed? It does not matter whether the answer is yes, no, or indifferent. What matters is that they are all "Saudis" who shamed the whole nation. You might say that the overall rating of player (not just for this match) X is 6.9/10 while player Y is 6.5/10. It doesn't matter. They are all C-, below average. Football is a "team" sport. Personally, I think the differences between our top two or three players in a single position is not as much as many believe. In fact, it may be negligible especially at this stage. What is important is that the NT plays well as an organized unit and with heart, and that hasn't happened in a loooooong time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,086 Posts
Adel,

well, i was surprised. Because when it came to the WC at least, we used to get those hammering BEFORE the WC, and at least see the players know the responsability they are under.

The loss was witnessed throughout the world and sadly now many ignorant fans thinks that our true form. its very dishearting.

My only consolation is that usually the players rebound and have the desire and will to "prove a point". If we can do that against Cameroon, ill be over the 8 easily :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
MO,

I am hopeful. I am always optimist. But for some reason, I really think that in the two following matches we will do well. According to Alriyadh Daily the most likely lineup for tonight will be:

Al Dayea

Shelya - Takar - Suleiman - Shehri - Abdulghani (5 defenders)

with Khathran in mid. and Obeid in attack. They didn't name the rest but hinted to two of these three Nawaf, khamis, and Waked. Also, Suwayed upfront. That's five changes in the starting lineup. I expected only three.

Seems more like 5-3-1-1 formation. Let's see if that works and if indeed ALRiyadh's sources are correct.
 

·
totally innocent
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
Dossary said:
MO,

I am hopeful. I am always optimist. But for some reason, I really think that in the two following matches we will do well. According to Alriyadh Daily the most likely lineup for tonight will be:

Al Dayea

Shelya - Takar - Suleiman - Shehri - Abdulghani (5 defenders)

with Khathran in mid. and Obeid in attack. They didn't name the rest but hinted to two of these three Nawaf, khamis, and Waked. Also, Suwayed upfront. That's five changes in the starting lineup. I expected only three.

Seems more like 5-3-1-1 formation. Let's see if that works and if indeed ALRiyadh's sources are correct.
:eek: :mad:

Mohammad Noor dropped! The only player in that mauling to have played with heart and dedication and he's rewarded with the bench :mad: . Absolutely sickening :yuck: , even more so if Temyat is picked (and he was a waste of space on Saturday) .

My formation would be:

Shilia - Tokar - Sulaiman (by default) - Harithy - Abdulghani (by default)

Noor - Waked

Suwayyed - Khathran

Obeid
 

·
totally innocent
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
Returning to the main topic:

I'm not as optimistic. The ship doesn't steady that quickly. If you look at the games immediately following a thrashing, we didn't play well. We were awful against Qatar in Lebanon, and we weren't great against Bolivia either. But I'm hoping they do. If those players have any sense of self preservation they'd better produce one helluva performance against Cameroon. 8-0 is not a scoreline that is easy to forget. They shamed the nation and tainted the reputation of Saudi football, so they have a duty to salvage some pride and dignity for Saudi.

As for partizanship. That ill feeling between the different sets of players and fans isn't born out of nothing. There is a real problem of partizanship in the FA. And the problem is becoming more and more obvious.

I don't have a problem if Saudi plays without a single Ittihadi if others were picked on merit. The squad in 94 wasn't exactly full of Ittihadis, but I cheered for them. It's when club loyalties are put ahead of the team's benefit that people get pissed off and apathetic.

There has to be a clearout in the FA. There are too many people there with a destructive influence.

Anyway, Come on Saudi!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Salam brothers.

I AM surprised. Why? Because of our freindly results against Brazil, Denmark, S. Africa, Uruguay and Senegal.

I expected a loss against Germany, but not by that pathetic margin. Frankly, the only way they could make it up to me is by qualifying to round two. Otherwise, I will wash my hands of the NT, of al Ahli, Ittihad, Hilal, Nasr, and Saudi football alltogether.

They could have at least tried to attack.

I cant explain it. Did any of them get some sleep the night before the game?. Probably not.

Why do we almost allways surrender when we are down early or down by 2 goals or more? why do we allways surrender when we are under pressure for more than ten minutes straight?. Don't they know how to be patient and withstand the early pressure?. We need a profesional psychologist to accompany the NT 24/7, just like they do elsewhere, I'm sure a pro shrink will do a better job than any Johar or AbdelHadi or S. Bin Fahad could ever dream of.

Which brings me to my next point. Sultan bin Fahad should resign, at least as head of the FA. I don't see any sense in him being both the head of Youth Welfare AND the SAFA. The head of the SAFA should answer to the Re3aya, and should constantly be criticised publicly, something we obviously cannot do with Sultan bin Fahad.

Anyhow, good luck tonite, although I predict Cameroon to score very early and another Saudi surrender, even though we might do a LITTLE better than we did against Germany, ie. a couple of more shots on goal, nothing more.

Another huge public embarrasment in front of the whole world is brewing guys. Lets hope they prove me wrong.

Peace.
 

·
totally innocent
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
well the game just begun

The lineup is poor. The organisation is worse. Already the players are all at sea. Nobody knows what he's supposed to do.

This might get ugly
 

·
totally innocent
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
Well the team settled in after the nervy beginning. Shilia was excellent, shehri is providing good cover, and the midfielders are understanding each other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,935 Posts
Call me crazy, but I (one of the biggest fans of Cameroon) think that Saudi Arabia played a highly entertaining game of football today even more than Cameroon.

Cameroon had lots of possession but did nothing and were not at all entertaining, but when Saudi got the ball they were up the field in seconds and usually it took them only 2 or 3 nice passes MAX to get a shot on goal. That was obvious if you saw the shots on goal number for KSA and for Cameroon.

Again, Nawaf El Temyat belongs in one of the top European clubs, but he should have scored a goal to seal his excellent performance today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Faisal,

You raise an important issue. In KSA you can critisize the hell of say the minister of education or agriculture, etc... but try critisizing the governer of 3ar3ar or Najran then you're in trouble. However, football has always been an oasis of equality and free speech. I mean where else in KSA can a son of an ex-king (Abdulrahman bin Saud) be threaetened by and old player (AL-Nu3aymah) or a "7*al" like Saeed AL-Oweiran (I don't meen to make fun of him just show his social status) can make a joke of a bother of the king (Pr. Hathlul).

The SAFA or the NT should have its own semi-independent leadership. However, I'm afraid that who ever fills this position will be kicked out along with the coach whenever things go wrong. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Ahmad,

I bet you want to erase your comment on Temyat :D :D It is difficult to judge a player when the whole team melts down like that. I saw the German kicker ratings. They gave all the Saudis scores between 5.5 and 4.5, I believe Temyat recieved 5 (The rating is between 1 and 6 with 1 being the best). Therefore, they believe the whole team stunk and there was no one who stood out or who was much worse than the others.

Let's face it, Mohammad Noor is one of the best all-around footballers in the Saudi league, and I really don't have anything against him, but he was given several chances with the NT, such as the confed. cup, Asian cup, and the WC qualifiers. Unfortunately he never lived upto the expectations. I am not saying that he doesn't deserve a starting position. What I'm saying is that he hasn't impressed the way he does with Ittihad. Other players like Temyat, Yami, Waked, khathran, and Takar did that in the first year they were selected. My guess is that he never adapted himself to the environment surrounding the NT and NT team style. There are many examples of players who excel in one club and disppear when the move to another and vice-versa.

Nevertheless, I still believe that Noor is essential to the NT, and he along with Waked are our best def. med. The coach had to select only one of them for this new formation. I just hope that he can do more, I know he can. Kamees Oweiran on the other hand just couldn't get back in form after the 1 year ban. The same way Saeed Oweiran and Ghesheyan suffered.
 

·
totally innocent
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
Adel,

Temyat played very well today, but I still stand by my opinion that he was the worst (it's between him Khamis) on Saturday. In the game against Germany, he didn't move at all. He was expecting the ball to come to him. He didn't chase anything. I don't know what it takes to make this guy play with heart. Do we have to get thrashed for him to wake up? Why couldn't he play like that against Germany?

Anyway, him & Shilia & Obeid were excellent going forward.

Shilia was my man of the match. What a refreshing change to Doukhi's incompetent defending. And he went forward well too.

As for Noor. I disagree about him not making the most of his chances. I actually think he has a good record at NT level. He only played 10 minutes in the confed cup, so that doesn't count. In the Asian cup, he was one of our most impressive players. So I don't think he failed. He might not have made the kind match winning performances he does for Ittihad, but he did play well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,086 Posts
Guys,

Whats shocking is that i read an article in Riyadiyyah....blaming themselves and all media publications for their role in "favouring" some players and "degrading" others.

Now i know one match doesn't make someone a hero, but they pointed alot on how Shelia has been ignored for so long and in one match showed alot more maturity then Dokhi, they talked also on how terrible Abdullah Sulaiman has become, on how Obied and Khathran also deserved more recognition.

Imagine if Sheehan and Talal Mish3al were there? :( i mean especially Sheehan, he would have been lethal on those counter attacks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,086 Posts
We are falling behind in Asia...why? well

The game has changed, and you can't survive on skill alone.

Thats why a team like Brazil was unstoppable 10 years ago but now need a ref gift to beat Turkey, and have struggled to qualify.

We probably have the best skill in Asia still (for how long though im not sure), but we have defintly fallen behind in Tactics and Phsyical aspects (Speed, Stamina) to the Japan, Korea and maybe even Iran.

What we need?

- No more interference, no more biassness in selecting players. I think the Cameroon game proved that and even the media here has acknowledged.

- Bringing in a forign coach with experience and LEAVING him to do the job for a few years (Japan keep getting better and better, all results of their coach's long term plan).

- Arranging with european clubs to send youth players, and maybe even part pay for our existing players (like Nawaf) to go play abroad. INTERFERING to let them move abroad if the club won't let go (like with Nawaf)

Your comments?
 
N

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
What we need is all this partizan politics surrounding the NT, FA and Hilal to be over and done with. Only then can we actually do well on the world stage.

Everyone in this thread knows what a full strengthed Saudi national team, consisting of players that have been selected on merit would be capable of. We need to get rid of meddlesome FA officals that want to please their constituates rather than do their job, which is to better Saudi football.
Look, we will never be good at swimming or skiing or table tennis or basketball (altho we have a few good teams). People in this country live and breath football. There is no other sport that comes close to it's popularity in the kingdom. After Asr go to any place that could remotely be used to play football in and you'll see the shabab playing there. Our national team should be the icing on the cake, a source of pride not shame.

It's time to go to the next level. Our Asian rivals are surpassing us, why? Because they are giving their players an honest chance to represent their country. We have to put our petty club differences and city rivalries aside for the good of us all. The national represents everyone, or so it should. To do that it must be made up of everyone. From Nasr to Ahli, from Ittihad to Hilal from Shabab to Ansar. If a kid is playing on the street has the ability to play for the Saudi NT then he should be picked. I'm not exaggerating, we have to have a policy where if you're good enough, you're in and those who are not are out.

Skills is not enough. You have to have grit, determination, heart. Only then will we have a chance to be force to be reckoned with. The people who pull on an NT jersey have to respect it enough to play their hearts out for it. There are some who would give anything to play for their national team, it's what their dreams are made of. Why shouldn't it be the same for Saudis? Where is their patriotism?

Now is the time to reform the FA, the NT and the way and attitude we approach these matches and tournaments. Instead of internal squabbles why not have team unity.

Let's do it before our opponets pass us by.
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
5,940 Posts
HI everyone.. very nice posts here... I'd like to add my opinion:

- Ok.. as we can all see.. step 1 in the recovery process would be a reshake of the FA itself.. but.. who are we kidding??!! Nearly everything we've been proposing here would depend on one guy and one guy alone.. Sultan Bin Fahad.. and to say the truth.. I can't see him standing down as head of the FA (as it would actually imply that he was part of the reason of our downfall.. and he'd never admit that).. To say the truth.. to hope he stands down OR that the NT starts choosing players for how they play not who they play for or who they know is like a dream.. one that I hope will happen.. but then again.. it's been happening for years.. why would it change now?? Ok.. we've never lost by this big of a margin for a long time.. but we have been thrashed before.. and we have been critisiced before.. what was the usual reply.. "7an3alij al akh6aa' wu fee kho66a madroosa".. and nothing changes.. BUT.. IF God finally brings sense into their minds (and hearts).. this is what I'd like to see happening:

1. As VL said.. get a big foreign coach.. someone with patience, tactics and determination.. and I can name MANY.. Actually.. right before the 94 WC.. we hired someone who I hoped would stay.. but only survived 1 NT game (the 1-1 friendly draw against Columbia in Jeddah) before realizing that the coach here was merely a puppet.. Leo Benkhaker (GOD knows how that's spelt :D).. Anyway.. that guy had all of the above requirements.. I'd really like to see someone do to us like what Hiddink and Troussier are doing with Korea and Japan.. building a TEAM.. from all aspects.. confidence (with the ball or without it), tactics, training and self belief..

2. Saudis moving abroad.. that IS the key IMO to most of our problems.. as the amount of learnings they get there are massive.. especially that they won't be AFRAID to play a team like Germany (as we did on that dull Saturday afternoon) as they'd be playing similar players week in week out... !! Just look at Egypt.. compare ANY player playing abroad and another player who plays in Egypt.. and 9 times out of tem.. you'd find the guy playing abroad is far superior.. (Mido is the simplest example.. and Al Yammani looked like someone from another planet compared to his team mates in the Egyptian U21s!!)..

3. Training.. I would LOVE to know what our guys do during training?? chat?? smoke?? cuz it's unbelievable that these guys train TWICE a day (on the pitch) and should have gym trainings to improve their total physical abilities and still turn up like a skinny snail that can barely go from here to there without collapsing!! Personally, I think that if we do get a good NT coach.. he should have the authority to audit and fix training facilities and tactics at the clubs to make sure that the new seeds of the NT will be brought up in the correct manner...

4. Honest Media.. sadly.. the media made our NT look like the team of the century with there constant apraise and it even reached a point where they blamed US the fans on "pressuring the team"!! Sadly.. that has ruined our team as arrogance has not only crept into it.. but has overwhelmed our players.. (Althugh I don't blame them alone for the 8-0.. The fact that we thought that Al Johar was the saviour and the media emphasizing that shows how clueless they are!!)..

5. Making the Domestic League an honest fight once again.. as that ruined not only the moral of some of the players.. but their relationship with the "favored" ones..

6. The FA should start giving clubs the money they deserve from the income that comes from games.. and I'm not talking fan tickets only.. but advertisement and TV rights and all.. to say the least.. MOST of our clubs are dying!! and the FA is simply taking EVERYTHING (well.. maybe not 100%.. 99% would sound more reasonable :D) leaving the clubs to depend on their executives (A3daa' al sharraf) who have to pay to see their team succeed without seeing a dime coming back in return..

Finally, I'd like to say.. I really hope SOME of these proposals do turn into actions.. but as I said.. it actually falls into the hands of one guy.. Sultan Bin Fahad!! He's the decision maker.. and it's up to him to choose between seeing us rot back into the shadows.. or start moving up the international ladder!!

just my 2 hallalas worth :D
 
N

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Well one thing is for sure, Johar will step down. I knew it was mistake making him our coach and the formation against Germany made his complete lack of tactical know-how all too obvious. But even if were to get a Gus Hiddink or a Phillip Troussier, you can't expect results from a coach if other people meddle with his authority. You pay him to do a job, let the man do his job. We don't need puppets, what we need is a coach who has a clear idea of what he intends to do and will follow thru on it.

Sadly that's the last type of coach the FA would get...:(
 

·
Premier Player
Joined
·
5,940 Posts
Exactly.. totally agree with you there Nero..

After all.. just look at the coaches we've had.. Macala (who used to work miracles for Kuwait when he was in control there) screwed up badly and was shown the door cuz he played a team HE admitted he didn't pick.. and the same goes for Otto Fester and Slobodan.. nobodies who would not mind being puppets as long as they are paid!! :(

Nero, that's exactly what I said.. we could get the best coach ever (We did get Carlos Alberto although I'm not a fan of him at all.. but he was the coach of the WC winning Brazil side so he came with THAT reputation) and still suffer if the FA don't want to let the guy do his job well..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,086 Posts
Yasir,

I agree with the point though Carlos Alberto is a bad example IMO, because he seemed happy to get his pay check and nothing else!

Solari, for all the "puppet" image, was the guy who started players like Talal Al Jibreen and picked Yassir Al Tayfy!! :wth: so it seems he was able to get his way more then any other Saudi coach ever.

I mean Talal Al Jibreen! :D the guy was excellent in 94...but who would have thought? :)
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top