[Rascar Capac]

i'm so happy we won the WC. i cant forget almost everyone (including me)bashed Felipao for taking Ronaldo, Edilson, Luizao and he left the great Romario. finally we saw that Ronnie is the real great player of us.

now i just wanna know who are the greatest brazilians players. i became a brazil fan since Socrates's 1986, so i just knew about Pele, Garrincha, Vava, Zico, etc from medias. can you help me guys to rate our 10 greatest players?

Here is my candidate, please sort them as their highest achievement and also remind me when i've forgot some players who deserved it and vice versa.

Pele, Garrincha, Mario Zagallo, Ronaldo, Romario, Vava, Tostao, Didi, Rivaldo, Cafu, Dunga, Zico, Socrates, Leonidas, Ademir, Bebeto, Aldair, Jairzinho, Taffarel, Roberto Carlos, Roberto Rivellino, Falcao, and Careca.

well i'm not sure about Careca i just prefer to put his name than Rai or Leonardo

personally, i think Ronaldo would be in the third place after Pele and Mario Zagallo. but if we won again in 2006 i believe he'll the second

 

[B*O*S*H*]

remind me when i've forgot some players who deserved it

Pele, Garrincha, Mario Zagallo, Ronaldo, Romario, Vava, Tostao, Didi, Rivaldo, Cafu, Dunga, Zico, Socrates, Leonidas, Ademir, Bebeto, Aldair, Jairzinho, Taffarel, Roberto Carlos, Roberto Rivellino, Falcao, and Careca.

Erm like Carlos Alberto??

 

[falcao]

i LOVE rivaldo, but he doesn't belong on this list. and there's NO WAY roberto carlos belongs on the list. if you watch all these world cup games again, you'll see only great game we got from the leftback position was against costa rica -- with junior! roberto carlos is all media hype.

best brazilian midfielder ever: falcao.

gerson is missing from the list. and carlos alberto.

 

[Rascar Capac]

roberto carlos is all media hype.

perhaps. but dont you remember that Roberto Carlos earned three times Champion League title and he has participated the WC twice, both of them reach the final and one of them is penta campeao?

gerson is missing from the list. and carlos alberto.

hell, how did i miss Carlos Alberto. regarding Gerson, i have no knowledge about him as much as the others

 

[Grinch]

My All-Time Top 10

1. Pelé- The King of football, the Athlete of the Century. The perfect footballer. He could do it all: he was superb at passing, tackling, heading, dribbling, shooting with both feet, crossing, marking, you name it. He scored over 1000 goals and was three times World Cup champion. Nobody has equalled his perfection in the game.
2. Garrincha- The Bird, the Joy of the People, the most spectacular dribbler who ever lived. Garrincha was unstoppable, and made the world laugh as he ridiculed defenders with his swinging feints. When Pelé got injured in World Cup '62 Garrincha rose to the occasion and destroyed all opposition, winning the Cup with the most amazing personal performance in a WC up to that point - one might say he decided that Cup for brazil like Maradona decided WC '86 for Argentina.
3. Nilton Santos- The Encyclopedia of Football, the first complete wingback in history. Nilton was a genius, who played as a forward as a kid but who was professionalized as a leftback due to his defensive skills. But his attacking drive couldn't be contained on the defense, and he advanced up the wing, dribbling, crossing, shooting and making the world understand the attacking possiblities of an attacking wingback. This position as we know it today was a creation of this man's talent. he was twice World Cup champion with Brazil, on 1958 and '62. The only club he ever played for was Botafogo.
4. Zico- "The Rooster from Quintino", the goalscoring playmaker who set WC '82 alight with the dazzling Brazil squad of that year. Zico was a master of free-kicks who scored goals by the dozens, set up plays, dictated his team's rythm and generally shone intensely with the talent that burst from his feet.
5. Didi- The Ethiopian Prince, Master of the Dry Leaf. Didi was Brazil's central playmaker in the star-studded 1958/62 squad. He refused to do slide tackles because 'football was made to be played upright, not lying down'. His long passes were exact and surgical; 50-yard passes were delivered with astonishing ease. He created the 'Dry Leaf' freekick, when the ball rises up and up and suddenly dives to the goal's angle. Confused? Think of the goal Ronaldinho scored against Seaman - Didi did that frequently. He was voted MVP of World Cup 1958.
6. Falcao- The King of Roma. The superb midfielder who shone so intensely in Brazil's WC '82 supersquad, and also in Roma, had to be in this list. He was an absolute joy to watch, always with his head upright, always in control of the game. Few have ever reached his level, talented and competitive.
7. Romario- The King Of The Area. The striker of Brazil's WC '94 victory wrote his name in history with a blistering goalscoring instict. When Romario has the ball under his control, all the defenders can do is pray. One touch on the ball was everything Romario ever needed to score. The space of a handkerchief is enough for him to dribble.
8. Gerson- The Golden Leftie, maestro of Brazil's WC '70 devastating squad. Gerson was able to put the ball anywhere he wanted, with his magical left foot. He was hot-headed and inspired as a great opera singer; but everthing was forgiven once he touched the ball.
9. Roberto Rivellino- The Atomic Hoof! Brazil's WC '70 left-winger was a central playmaker in his team, but in the Seleção he changed position to make room for Gerson, Pele and Tostao in other positions. Highlights of his repertoire include the 'RubberBand Dribble' and the deadly, 'cannonball' freekicks.
10. Ronaldo- O Fenômeno. The wonder kid who witnessed Brazil's WC '94 victory deserves a place in this pantheon, where four-times-WC-winner Zagallo might have been, for his courage and talent. The lightning speed and hazy dribbles are still there, even after so much pain and hard work. Who can deny Ronaldo's talent now? He shone intensely in TWO World Cups, reached both finals, lost one, won another and is already dreaming of 2006.
    [/list=1]

 

[Rascar Capac]

great post garrincha

 

[gOD]

great post garrincha

indeed :star:

I know he shouldn't be in this list, but were do you place Cafu?

 

[Grinch]

Cafu? Top 20 or 30, something like that. It's entirely subjective, of course.

 

[RedEagle]

Re: My All-Time Top 10

1. Pelé- The King of football, the Athlete of the Century. The perfect footballer. He could do it all: he was superb at passing, tackling, heading, dribbling, shooting with both feet, crossing, marking, you name it. He scored over 1000 goals and was three times World Cup champion. Nobody has equalled his perfection in the game.
2. Garrincha- The Bird, the Joy of the People, the most spectacular dribbler who ever lived. Garrincha was unstoppable, and made the world laugh as he ridiculed defenders with his swinging feints. When Pelé got injured in World Cup '62 Garrincha rose to the occasion and destroyed all opposition, winning the Cup with the most amazing personal performance in a WC up to that point - one might say he decided that Cup for brazil like Maradona decided WC '86 for Argentina.
3. Nilton Santos- The Encyclopedia of Football, the first complete wingback in history. Nilton was a genius, who played as a forward as a kid but who was professionalized as a leftback due to his defensive skills. But his attacking drive couldn't be contained on the defense, and he advanced up the wing, dribbling, crossing, shooting and making the world understand the attacking possiblities of an attacking wingback. This position as we know it today was a creation of this man's talent. he was twice World Cup champion with Brazil, on 1958 and '62. The only club he ever played for was Botafogo.
4. Zico- "The Rooster from Quintino", the goalscoring playmaker who set WC '82 alight with the dazzling Brazil squad of that year. Zico was a master of free-kicks who scored goals by the dozens, set up plays, dictated his team's rythm and generally shone intensely with the talent that burst from his feet.
5. Didi- The Ethiopian Prince, Master of the Dry Leaf. Didi was Brazil's central playmaker in the star-studded 1958/62 squad. He refused to do slide tackles because 'football was made to be played upright, not lying down'. His long passes were exact and surgical; 50-yard passes were delivered with astonishing ease. He created the 'Dry Leaf' freekick, when the ball rises up and up and suddenly dives to the goal's angle. Confused? Think of the goal Ronaldinho scored against Seaman - Didi did that frequently. He was voted MVP of World Cup 1958.
6. Falcao- The King of Roma. The superb midfielder who shone so intensely in Brazil's WC '82 supersquad, and also in Roma, had to be in this list. He was an absolute joy to watch, always with his head upright, always in control of the game. Few have ever reached his level, talented and competitive.
7. Romario- The King Of The Area. The striker of Brazil's WC '94 victory wrote his name in history with a blistering goalscoring instict. When Romario has the ball under his control, all the defenders can do is pray. One touch on the ball was everything Romario ever needed to score. The space of a handkerchief is enough for him to dribble.
8. Gerson- The Golden Leftie, maestro of Brazil's WC '70 devastating squad. Gerson was able to put the ball anywhere he wanted, with his magical left foot. He was hot-headed and inspired as a great opera singer; but everthing was forgiven once he touched the ball.
9. Roberto Rivellino- The Atomic Hoof! Brazil's WC '70 left-winger was a central playmaker in his team, but in the Seleção he changed position to make room for Gerson, Pele and Tostao in other positions. Highlights of his repertoire include the 'RubberBand Dribble' and the deadly, 'cannonball' freekicks.
10. Ronaldo- O Fenômeno. The wonder kid who witnessed Brazil's WC '94 victory deserves a place in this pantheon, where four-times-WC-winner Zagallo might have been, for his courage and talent. The lightning speed and hazy dribbles are still there, even after so much pain and hard work. Who can deny Ronaldo's talent now? He shone intensely in TWO World Cups, reached both finals, lost one, won another and is already dreaming of 2006.
    [/list=1]

1. 
   
   Fantastic post.
   
   Question for you. I know Ronaldo had a fantastic cup, but imo the most important player for Brazil's success, aside from the job Gilberto did in midfield was Rivaldo. I thought he was absolutely brilliant from the first game on through to that last goal where he dummies.
   
   How come the media and the fans, aren't giving him the credit he deserves? Sure Ronaldo scored the goals, but Rivaldo's dizzying runs along side him, almost always had Ronaldo one-on-one with a defender. And let's not forget, he also scored some important goals.

 

[Grinch]

R9 and Rivaldo

RedEagle, I understand what you're saying, and of course Rivaldo is a superb player. I guess Ronaldo would benefit from his immense personal charisma, something everyone who meets him talks about and that makes Rivaldo - who's naturally a shy person, not much of a 'media darling' - look sort of opaque by comparison. It's that old thing, if a woman wants to look good she goes out with truly horrible ladyfriends. So Ronaldo looks even more brilliant when compared to Rivaldo, a extremely gifter footballer who doesn't like to appear on public happenings and hates talking to the press. That might explain why Ronaldo gets all the hype and Rivaldo sometimes gets a cold shoulder.

But another difference is Ronaldo's personal history, his supreme effort towards returning to top-level competition. We all saw his knee popping out in that Internazionale match. To think that same man scored two goals in a World Cup final is really breathtaking. This man is a champion, and he was a champion before the match against Germany - because he achieved something much more valuable than anything FIFA could offer him. He earned, through a mixture of hard work and faith, a new chance. After everything that's happened to him - the WC '98 fit, the two knee injuries, everybody thinking he was finished for football - Ronaldo deserves a place in history.

Rivaldo is a great footballer, yes. But Ronaldo is a great man. roud:

 

[RedEagle]

No question about Ronaldo. He has entered a new domain, that no player before him has. The ressucitation of old magic combined with new things often makes for a grand story. Ronaldo deserves all the kudos he gets. He has ascended once again to the top.

I was speaking from a football point of view based on the games I saw. Brazilians in general tend to kill Rivaldo because of his inconsistencies in the Select team, and yet in every big tournament he delivers the goods. I can understand that Ronaldo will automatically eclipse him media wise, but from a football perspective I really don't see any difference between these two geniuses.

 

[Grinch]

Rivaldo and the fans

Actually Rivaldo has always been heavily criticized in Brazil, because he rarely displayed in the National Team the same regularity he shows at Barcelona. I think Scolari discovered the problem - Rivaldo used to be fielded outside the area, having to create chances for others and if possible score, when in fact Rivaldo is a deadly striker whose talent allows him to also create chances for others. Big Phil fielded Rivaldo upfront with Ronaldo, and that attacking duo was unstoppable.

So Rivaldo's problem with the Brazilian fans might also be attributed to a mixture of irregularity and the always-demanding attitude of the fans. Keep in mind that the standards Rivaldo is compared against are extremely high: We expect performances equal to those of Zico, Rivellino, and the likes; anything less is an insult to the yellow shirt. If he fails to deliver that brand of football the fans are simply furious, because of the dozens of other players who were left out of the Seleçao in favour of Rivaldo, and who supposedly could deliver the goods.

That's one case where Brazil's huge universe of class players is a problem: If a player plays badly (or even not brilliantly) in one match, the fans demand that this guy is kicked out and that some other player is called. That's the main reason Amoroso, Elber, Jardel, Ze Roberto, and so many others aren't first-team Seleçao players: When they had their chance they didn't achieve the expected greatness, and there were others waiting in line...

 

[Ze da Fiel]

This list is very subjective, but i'll give mine out:

1. Pele
2. Garrincha
3. Zico
4. Romario
5. Zizinho
5. Didi
6. Nilton Santos
7.Gerson
8. Falcao
9. Rivelino
10. Ronaldo

the top 2 there is no arugments....the 2 best player ever in any place or time played!

 

[Grinch]

Zizinho

This list is very subjective, but i'll give mine out:

1. Pele
2. Garrincha
3. Zico
4. Romario
5. Zizinho
5. Didi
6. Nilton Santos
7.Gerson
8. Falcao
9. Rivelino
10. Ronaldo

the top 2 there is no arugments....the 2 best player ever in any place or time played!

Hey, yeah, I forgot about Zizinho. Did you know that when Zico was a little kid, Zizinho was his biggest idol?

And I disagree about Garrincha being the second best player who ever played, I think Maradona is easily the 2nd best. Garrincha would compete to be the third best of all time - but I really think there are some great candidates for that position out there, like Beckenbauer or Cruyff. So the 'third best player of all time' is an arguable point. The two best ever are clearly Pelé and Maradona.

Funny, both are South Americans...

 

[falcao]

tonjaw, just being on a quality team like real madrid and winning lots of trophies doesn't mean roberto carlos is a world-class player. even real madrid has crap players. look, roberto carlos is a freak with a powerful left foot, like a cannon. but how often does he score on one of his free kicks? how often does he make a good cross into the penalty area?

roberto carlos is NOT a great player. he is just a very good player who has done a few exceptional things, like his tornoi de france goal in 1997 or his fluke goal from the corner flag in the spanish league in 1998. he does not deserve to be mentioned in same class as players like (1980s) junior or rivelino, etc.

 

[Grinch]

Roberto Carlos

I disagree, I do think Roberto Carlos is a world-class player; maybe he doesn't have the ball control Junior had (warning: I'm not talking about Parma's leftback, I'm talking about Brazil's WC '82 flying leftback) but he's certainly a competitor of the highest level. Flair isn't everything, as Dunga demostrated.

Roberto Carlos rules.

 

[Rascar Capac]

hmmm...i still dont understand with the conditions to be in the top list. we know that Ronaldo recieved the player of the year award in 20 years old. and he repeated it again in 21.
but most of you placed him no.10. how come? isnt he more valuable than...ehmmm...Rivellino maybe or even Romario...ehmm.. i'm just wondering

 

[Grinch]

Rivellino and Ronaldo

Hey, Rivellino was superb too, and there wasn't a 'golden ball' award in the 70s when he played. Furthermore, my list isn't definitive or anything - I forgot to put Zizinho in there, not to mention Leonidas da Silva(the Black Diamond, inventor of the bicycle kick). It's all subjective. :smileani:

So Ronaldo, who still has years ahead of him, may even win another World Cup (who knows?) and cast his name as one of history's all-time greats. roud: And WHAM!, my list is down the toilet...

Any such list of 'all-time-greats' is personal and totally open to discussion. Even polls or election with journalists can be biased or unfair. So don't take this stuff too seriously, maybe my list is completely wrong. It was fun to make, I can tell you that...

 

[Ze da Fiel]

Romario is the greatest center forward to have tied a footabll boot! Simple as that! The rest fight for second such as Ronaldo, Leonidas, Van Basten, Gerd Muller, and a certain DADA MARAVILHA!

Garrincha,
I diasagree, in my opinion and i'm not trying to be patritic , arrogant or anything like that, but Zico was better than Maradona. I remember very well the football in the 80;s and BEFORE the 86 World Cup the discussion was between who was best: Platini or Zico? Then came Maradona and he had a wondeful 86 WC, while Zico was injured. If Zico had won in 82 and was not injured in 86 it could have been a whole different story now. Zico played for the team, Maradona played for himself!

Tonjaw,

The best 2 left backs of brazilian history is nilton santos and junior....... then you talk about the rest.....Roberto Carlos, Branco (until 1990), etc..etc.....


adn Rivelino was the REZINHO DO PARQUE!:tongue:

 

[Rascar Capac]

yeah i can see now why Ronaldo didnt receive a good place in your list yet. ehmm meybe he still play and like Garrincha said, he has years ahead to reach the top of the world again.

i think it is similar as Zidane's. you know, most of people still thinking that Platini is better than Zidane though he didnt win the World Cup at all