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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so we accept that the big four are GS, FB, BJK and TS.

Who is the fifth over history?

Yilmaz, maybe Pendik? :D

Seriously though. LEt's consider history as the last 20 years...
 

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i say genclerbirlgi! i'd say gaziantepspor but they dont hav the strength that genclerbirlgig has...
 

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Altay :D

Seriously, that's a tough call-we'd have to look at statistics over the last ten years, though currently I'd say Gencler or Antep.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Yep, a tough one to call.

Isn;t it sad, that we really are a nation about the top 4?
 

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Are you guys nuts everyone knows it's between Eskisehir and Kocaeli considering the last 20 years, I'll come back with some proof in a bit or at least try.
 

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Ok I'm wrong but in the history of the Super Lig we come in 10th place overall in points, 5,6 and 7 of all time in points are Altay, Ankaragucu and Bursa respectively. grrrr don't like admitting that i'm wrong :mad:
 

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40 years of Turkish football :cool:

It's missing the last 5-6 years though.. Still makes it's point clear for this thread 9the 'other' teams..
Suprise that Trabzon wasn't (and still might not be) in 4th..
Code:
Turkey - All-Time Table 1958-1998

        T                    E    G   W   D   L    F    A    P  3+   3P
 1 Fenerbahçe SK Istanbul   40 1290 704	380 206	2114 1011 1788 229 2017	1.386
 2 Galatasaray SK Istanbul  40 1290 700	362 228	2135 1031 1762 236 1998	1.366
 3 Besiktas JK Istanbul     40 1288 672	386 230	1980  957 1730 229 1959	1.343
 4 Altay GK Izmir           38 1224 382	391 451	1290 1438 1155 103 1258	0.944
 5 MKE Ankaragücü SK	    35 1126 358	349 419	1227 1369 1065 121 1186	0.946
 6 Trabzonspor K	    24	780 405	236 139	1180  583 1046 209 1255	1.341
 7 Bursaspor K  	    31	992 328	310 354	1090 1105  966 136 1102	0.974
 8 Gençlerbirligi SK Ankara 26	856 266	280 310	1017 1101  812 103  915	0.949
 9 Eskisehirspor K	    22	700 242	228 230	 757  739  712	32  744	1.017
10 Göztepe SK Izmir	    22	678 222	225 231	 732  739  669	    669	0.987
11 Samsunspor K 	    21	662 218	183 261	 707  790  619	97  716	0.935
12 Boluspor K   	    20	638 192	215 231	 637  709  599	55  654	0.939
13 Istanbulspor K	    16	518 166	167 185	 570  594  499	38  537	0.963
14 Adanaspor AS SK	    16	500 155	168 177	 517  561  478	28  506	0.956
15 Kocaelispor K Izmit	    14	470 164	142 164	 590  580  470	89  559	1.000
16 Demirspor K Adana	    17	550 146	157 247	 515  773  449	41  490	0.816
17 Karsiyaka SK Izmir	    16	528 151	141 236	 532  756  443	65  508	0.839
18 Sariyer GK Istanbul	    13	436 148	135 153	 553  551  431	96  527	0.989
19 Zonguldakspor K   	    14	454 135	148 171	 425  484  418	 6  424	0.921
20 Demirspor K Ankara	    13	418 116	153 149	 448  509  385	    385	0.921
21 Vefa SK Istanbul	    14	422 108	143 171	 363  517  359	    359	0.851
22 Gaziantepspor K	    12	382 125	 99 158	 422  512  349	86  435	0.914
23 PTT SK Ankara 	    12	384  97	134 153	 352  466  328	    328	0.854
24 Mersin Idmanyurdu SK	    11	336 102	104 130	 295  339  308	    308	0.917
25 Izmirspor K  	    10	326  93	110 123	 314  387  296	    296	0.908
26 Feriköy SK Istanbul	     9	302  91	 89 122	 264  321  271	    271	0.897
27 Altinordu SK Izmir	    10	332  84	101 147	 314  447  269	    269	0.810
28 Orduspor K   	     9	284  86	 79 119	 240  335  251	    251	0.884
29 Sakaryaspor K Adapazari   8	278  92	 66 120	 332  411  250	31  281	0.899
30 Sekerspor KD Ankara	    10	320  73	100 147	 308  481  246	 9  255	0.769
31 Beykoz SK Istanbul	     8	264  72	 95  97	 262  313  239	    239	0.905
32 Antalyaspor K	     8	274  84	 65 125	 304  400  233	46  279	0.850
33 Denizlispor K	     8	280  77	 78 125	 307  398  232	33  265	0.829
34 Kayserispor K	     9	288  67	 87 134	 280  436  221	45  266	0.767
35 Malatyaspor K	     6	214  77	 57  80	 285  306  211	40  251	0.986
36 Hacettepe SK Ankara 	     8	252  67	 76 109	 247  335  210	    210	0.833
37 Rizespor K   	     6	206  71	 43  92	 210  294  185	22  207	0.898
38 Kasimpasa SK Istanbul     5	190  46	 67  77	 151  255  159	    159	0.837
39 Karagümrük SK Istanbul    6	182  53	 51  78	 207  236  157	    157	0.863
40 Giresunspor K	     6	180  47	 57  76	 146  201  151	    151	0.839
41 Konyaspor K  	     5	160  47	 33  80	 174  265  127	47  174	0.794
42 Diyarbakirspor K	     5	158  37	 37  84	 114  227  111	    111	0.703
43 Zeytinburnu SK Istanbul   5	162  36	 37  89	 159  290 109	36  145	0.673
44 Vanspor K	             4	136  34	 33  69	 127  220  101	34  135	0.743
45 Aydinspor K  	     3	 90  26	 27  37	 105  140   79	26  105	0.878
46 Bakirköyspor K Istanbul   3	 90  28	 21  41	 131  135   77	28  105	0.856
47 Çanakkale Dardanelspor K  2	 68  20	 17  31	  72  104   57	20   77	0.838
48 DÇ Karabükspor K	     2	 64  20	 12  32	  69  112   52	20   72	0.813
49 Beyoðluspor K Istanbul    2	 64  15	 20  29	  59   90   50	     50	0.781
50 Yesildirek SK Istanbul    2	 58  13	 16  29	  51   94   42	     42	0.724
51 Adalet SK Istanbul	     2	 52  10	 15  27	  38   69   35	     35	0.673
52 Balikesirspor K	     1	 30   9	  7  14	  18   39   25	     25	0.833
53 Petrol Ofisi GK Ankara    1	 34   8	  5  21	  38   73   21	 8   29	0.618
54 Kahraman Marasspor K	     1	 36   4	 11  21	  22   71   19	 4   23	0.528
55 MKE Kirikkalespor K	     1	 30   5	  8  17	  21   64   18	     18	0.600
*  Balance of 1988-1989	     0	 18   0	  0  18	   0   54    0	 0    0	0.000
 
Totals:
E - Entry                  692
G - Game                 22344
W - Win                   7794
T - Tie                   6756
L - Lost                  7794
F - Goals For            25817
A - Goals Against        25817
P - Points (2 for win)   22344
3+ - Bonus for 3P win     2448
3P - Points after 3P win 24792

Note:
During the 1988-1989 season Samsunspor K had a terrible couch crash and
couldn't field a team to play the second half of the schedule. The teams
playing Samsunspor K were awarded a 3-0 win. Samsunspor K wasn't relegated 
and played in the 1. Lig for the next season.
 

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All time Turkish league standings :cool:
Up to date, as of round 23, 2004...
Code:
[b]    Team                 Pts[/b]
Galatasaray             2421
Fenerbahçe              2403
Besiktas                2373
Trabzonspor             1559
MKE Ankaragücü          1448
Altay                   1368
Bursaspor               1320
Gençlerbirligi          1205
Samsunspor               967
Istanbulspor             774
Göztepe	                 767
Gaziantepspor            756
Kocaelispor              755
Eskisehirspor            744
Adanaspor                659
Boluspor                 654
Sariyer	                 527
Karsiyaka                508
Adana Demirspor          490
Denizlispor              484
Antalyaspor              442
Zonguldakspor            424
Ankara Demirspor         385
Malatyaspor              376
Vefa SK Istanbul         359
PTT SK Ankara            328
Sakaryaspor              316
Rizespor                 314
Izmirspor                296
Feriköy	                 271
Altinordu                269
Kayserispor              266
Sekerspor                255
Orduspor                 251
Beykoz                   239
Diyarbakirspor           224
Hacettepe                210
Mersin Idmanyurdu        208
Konyaspor                202
Kasimpasa                159
Karagümrük               157
Vanspor                  153
Giresunspor              151
Zeytinburnu              145
Çanakkale Dardanelspor   109
Aydinspor                105
Bakirköyspor             105
DÇ Karabükspor            72
Elazigspor                55
Beyoðluspor               50
Yesildirek                42
Adalet 	                  35
Petrol Ofisi              29
Balikesirspor             25
Kahraman Marasspor        23
Akçaabat Sebatspor        22
MKE Kirikkalespor         18
 

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maybe you should put this list in the "en büyük kim"-threads, too ;)
 

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then this list is also not showing that Ankaragücü is the 5th best team in Türkiye ;)

as soon as I get your Fener-avatar as JPG-file, I will do it :)
 

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MKE Ankaragücü isn't doing too good (12 points behind 4th place) at the moment though. Any chance of them challenging the top teams in the future?


1. Fenerbahce 23 15 6 2 54 - 27 51
2. Besiktas 23 15 6 2 48 - 23 51
3. Trabzonspor 23 13 5 5 36 - 27 44
4. Denizlispor 23 12 3 8 37 - 27 39
5. Galatasaray 23 10 8 5 35 - 28 38
6. Gaziantepspor 23 12 2 9 35 - 34 38
7. Diyarbakirspor 23 10 7 6 36 - 29 37
8. Malatyaspor 23 8 9 6 31 - 23 33
9. Samsunspor 23 9 6 8 34 - 34 33
10. G.Birligi 23 9 4 10 40 - 33 31
11. Konyaspor 23 6 10 7 34 - 36 28
12. Ankaragucu 23 7 6 10 30 - 36 27
13. Istanbulspor 23 7 5 11 31 - 32 26
14. Rizespor 23 7 3 13 24 - 41 24
15. Sebatspor 23 5 7 11 26 - 36 22
-------------------------------------------------------
16. Elazigspor 23 4 6 13 29 - 53 18
17. Bursaspor 23 3 8 12 17 - 29 17
18. Adanaspor 23 3 3 17 21 - 50 12
 

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Ankaragucu has gone into serious decline in recent years and have even fallen behind their Ankara rivals Genclerbirligi as the main team of the Capital... :)
 

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Not really..

They got their points over history by being a consistant midtable side over the years..
They've missed just 5 seasons of top flight football in their history..

They lost a bit of ground when their manager Ersun Yanal left to rivals Genclerbirligi 2 seasons ago..
But now they have a good manager, Riza Calimbay, and he's attracting some good players to the club. If he stays for the long term, they might grow into a top 4 club soon, but I can't see them really putting in a decent challenge for the title..
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Maybe we need to make it broader by including cup wins and European successes? Almost like a school project :D
 

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I think so too..

Other than the big 4, the smaller clubs to win the cup are..

1966-67 - Altay
1968-69 - Göztepe
1969-70 - Göztepe
1970-71 - Eskisehirspor
1971-72 - Ankaragücü
1979-80 - Altay
1980-81 - Ankaragücü
1985-86 - Bursaspor
1986-87 - Gençlerbirligi
1987-88 - Sakaryaspor
1996-97 - Kocaelispor
2000-01 - Gençlerbirligi
2001-02 - Kocaelispor

Two Cups: Altay, Göztepe, Ankaragücü, Gençlerbirligi, Kocaelispor
One Cup: Eskisehirspor, Bursaspor, Sakaryaspor

So err..
It deepens the mystery even further :groan:

OK, so maybe we can use it to narrow it down..
Only these teams can be considered because they've actually won something...
So then..
Code:
    Team                 Pts
MKE Ankaragücü          1448
Altay                   1368
Bursaspor               1320
Gençlerbirligi          1205
Göztepe	                 767
Gaziantepspor            756
Kocaelispor              755
Eskisehirspor            744
Sakaryaspor              316
I left in Gaziantep for the sake of recent history..

Now, lets get some stats on each team :D

Ankaragücü:
4th: 3 times
5th: 3
6th: 6
7th: 4
8th: 3
9th: 3
10th: 1
11th: 5
12th: 1
13th: 3
14th: 2
15th: 4
16th: 1

More later one day maybe... :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks T

I think it's gonna end up between the two Ankara teams.

Altay WERE successful, but now I think GB is slowly establishing themselves as the 5th team.
 

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Ok
Eskisehirspor :proud:

2nd: 3 times :proud:
3rd: 2 times :proud:
4th: 2 times :proud:
6th: 2 times
7th: 1 time
8th: 1 time
9th: 4 times
10th: 2 times
12th: 1 time
15th: 2 times
16th: 1 time
17th: 1 time and most recently in 1995-96 season the last time we were in the Super Lig Fenerbahce were champs that year with 84 points.
 
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