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Discussion Starter #1
As the season draws to a close it seems that this year we will be trophyless (the charity shield and super cup don't really count) but does this make it a worse year than last when we won the three trophies?

This year we seem to have progressed further holding our own agianst the likes of Barca (again), Roma (again) and Dortmund...
Let us all forget the way we were ****ed over in Leverkushen and concentrate on progress...

We are challenging for the title and have put in a remarkable run of form in the PL... I doubt we will win it but I am glad that we have not thrown it away... rather Arsenal have won it with a typically strong run towards the end.

Our defence is unbelievably good (again forgetting that match that didn't really happen... oh and Chelsea) and although we may be boring (my god we can be boring) it does seem to bring success.

So what for next year?

My dream is that we get two wingers... not mediocre ones but peeple that can change a game... maybe Ze Roberto, Duff or Killy would be nice... doubtful it seems but nice.

Wayne Bridge could come in on the left to give us more balance...

All in all we need to become more attacking... our defence is as good as it is going to get and the only way that we will progress is if we concentrate on attack/creation.

IMO we have one... maybe two players who can create chances...
Stevie Gerrard and Smicer... the latter though has been underperforming big time this year.

Oh and one more wish... please can we buy Jo Cole... I know he wouldn't fit in to our system if we play with wingers but he is soooo good.
 

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Duff would be an excellent purchase. I watched him 2 days ago against Boro and he almost singlehandedly beat them. He set up two goals, and it seemed like every time he touched the ball, he would dribble around 2 defenders. If Andy Cole wasn't such a talentless git, Blackburn could've won by 5 goals. Now, imagine what Damien could do if he had a decent striker, like Owen to convert his passes.

I don't know about Bridge, he seems to be priced a bit highly, and if Duff goes to Liverpool, Riise will surely move to left back and that's Bridge's position. Since John looks like he could develop into a superstar player, I'm not sure buying Bridge would be a wise move.
 

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Joe Cole

Oh and one more wish... please can we buy Jo Cole... I know he wouldn't fit in to our system if we play with wingers but he is soooo good.
Ok this is purely subjective, I have nothing against the guy.

In previous seasons Joe Cole epitomised Liverpool under Roy Evans, lots of strutting and flash but little actual substance, he rarely provided the "killer ball" his scoring (he's an attacking midfielder after all) wasn't the best, he was light weight, he gives away possesion (if I remember correctly, people level the same accusation at Murphy) but all that was overlooked because of the skill. He needed to learn when to use the skill and when to play it simple and certainly didn't look the finished article.

This season he has kind of improved, his final ball is better (not the best) his shooting is still poor. Again he's an attacking midfielder and in two seasons has scored 5 goals and assisted 5 hardly a good rate for the (supposed) best young attacking midfielder in the country.

Compare the goals and assists above to other midfielders in the country and it's woeful, David Dunn has 7 goals and 5 assists in his debut Prem season his physical presence is superior in all he is a far better midfielder, of course he doesn't pull a Cruyff turn in a dead area of the pitch so isn't looked on in the same way.

Prehaps it's because Cole has been called up to the England side, lets face it, us Liverpool fans are international footballer Wh0res. Any new player to join the England side is suddenly the ideal player for the side, we've had Ricketts as "the ideal player for Liverpool" (you remember Ricketts, the guy who plays for Bolton reserves now) we are in the process of salivating over Darius Vassel (the guy who is being kept out of the Villa side by Peter Crouch) similar with Joe Cole.

Do you want the flash and pomp of Cole a player who is flattering to deceive, looks pretty but it leads to little in the way of actual end product, AND would cost an arm and a leg. Or would you prefer a Midfielder who is going to do something with the ball in an area that counts?

Given the choice of Cole and Dunn I'd take Dunn every time, not to say that Cole isn't, or can't become, a very good player I just don't think the kind of price tag he would command is justified when the end product is so far away.

Someone, PLEASE tell me why I should consider him worthy of a place in the Liverpool side side. I really want to see him as the best young midfielder in the land and in turn him to sign for Liverpool, but at the moment I look at him and then look at Dunn and feel that Dunn is the more complete midfielder.


*As a side note*

The best thing I can come up with in the way of cold hard facts to illustrate the lack of "end product" provided by Joe Cole is that Vladi Smicer (you know the guy disliked by so many Liverpool fans, personally I'm a big fan of paddy bergers mate) has scored more and provided more assists in the same period of time as Joe Cole. David Dunn has been more effective in his first full season than Joe Cole has in two.

He's a good player no doubt, but is he worthy of the hype? given time and good coaching and he'll be very good but untill then.....
 

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I think Duff would be a brilliant buy but we also need someone for the right. IMO we don't actually need anyone in the middle. Gerrard can provide the "killer ball" better than anyone and plays much better when he is roaming around the midfield rather than being confined to the holding midfield role like he is with England.
 

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What's this I see? Has this lazy welsh layabout actually seen fit to get up off his arse and post something:eek: :eek: ;) :D Good to see you pool_til_i_die.

I would love Duff at Liverpool, he's a fantastic player and would add something compleatly different to our team.
 

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Mr Fowler said:
he's a fantastic player and would add something compleatly different to our team.
he's referring to skill;) :D and certainly creativity
 

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Mr Fowler said:
What's this I see? Has this lazy welsh layabout actually seen fit to get up off his arse and post something:eek: :eek: ;) :D Good to see you pool_til_i_die.
I pushed his arse a bit ya know.....so give the credit to me:D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I was so not prompted... got off my own arse... Uni life encourages this I think...:confused:;)

ok on the subject of Mr Jo Cole... was it not Mr Heskey that people were saying he does not score enough when playing for Leicester?

Cole is at West Ham and whilst very good I have little doubt that he would do better with us...

On the silly belief that I would ger carried away with the English media I think the fact that I am Welsh would parrody this... Jo Cole is just a special player whom WILL be (is?) a star...

Look at the guys control for the love of god... I do not care if he is Welsh, English or even Amercian it is sooooooooo goood and something that we could do with...

Comparing him with Duff... why?

Duff for me is more of a product of the English media... why he is young and English. I do not care about stats... I mean before Sven took over at England Beckham had but ONE goal...

I care about how good they are and Cole... like it or not is different class and what is much more important for what I am trying to say.... ATTACKING!

What about Savio on the left and Macca on the right then;)?
 

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"ok on the subject of Mr Jo Cole... was it not Mr Heskey that people were saying he does not score enough when playing for Leicester?"
Houllier brought in Heskey because he liked the partnership he had with Owen at international, he was brought in as a foil rather than the new attacking spearhead.


Look at the guys control for the love of god... I do not care if he is Welsh, English or even Amercian it is sooooooooo goood and something that we could do with...
Congratulations, he has good control, lets face it at the moment thats all he is relying on. Cole should be the best young midfielder in the country. Instead he's a talented player who is going nowhere, he doesn't score goals, he doesn't create goals he loses possession ALOT (take last night, it lead to a goal). Surely a playmaker should be chipping in with goals and assists and actually be seen constantly attacking not pleasing the crowd with little flicks and tricks?


Comparing him with Duff... why?
(??) I didn't, I compared him with Dunn, a player who does a similar job for Blackburn as Cole should for West Ham the difference is Dunn is more direct, he's not out to show his ball juggling skills, he gets the ball moves it around runs at defenders, but more importantly he scores and creates goals. In his Debut season for a relegation threatned club he's scored and created more than Cole has managed in two.



I care about how good they are and Cole... like it or not is different class and what is much more important for what I am trying to say.... ATTACKING!
"ATTACKING" by definition means scoring and creating, running at players getting in the box, or feeding balls for the attacker, Cole isn't doing that so at the moment he is little more than a luxury.


I'm not saying Cole is a bad player, I just don't believe he is as good as people want to believe. Smicer for example has been the subject of amazing abuse from supporter but while Cole is winning plaudits Smicer who has done more is the victim of boo's and general abuse (I'm not saying Smicer is better than Cole it's just an example).

Joe Cole is a "rough diamond" a "Raw Talent" but with a 20million price tag he's one player who should be left well alone (if he was available for 8 or 9 then yes the risk is justified), do you wnat a 20million pound bench warmer, while he's developing?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
slip of the tongue on my part... Duff is in fact Dunn and my belief holds strong...

You can not reel of a load of statistics and say that this makes certain players better than others... at such a rate you could argue that the Piacenza striker Hubner is better than the Milan striker Shevchenko... I mean he has scored more goals and Andrej is in a far better side with better creativity etc etc etc...

Performances and just the look of a player is what appeals to me and wheras Cole may not be the finished product there is no doubt that he will become a regular for England.

Why buy him when he is still devoloping?

Doesn't this answer itself when you think about? If he costs £20 million now how much will he cost when he is terrorising defences with England?
Get him now when the price is quite low (and believe me when 29 year olds are being bought for £48 million it is quite low) and lets not wait until he 'proves' himself.

Back on to the subject of Dunn... would he be so highly rated if he was not English... I highly doubt it...
The fact is he is young and English and therefore he gets a lot of attention in the predominantly English media... rightly or wrongly this is the way it is...

Look at Simon Davies... superb season but how much coverage as he had... outside of Tottenham and Wales very little.

Back to the ATTACKING Jo Cole that I speak of... he is attacking in the way that he will make things happen, get the crowd behind the team and scare the **** out of the poor defenders whom he is facing.

In this way he is similar to Zidane... now don't go thinking I have lost the plot. Cole will probably never be as good as ZZ but my point is that in Italy ZZ hardly ever scored... it was only when he went to Real that his goals ratio rocketed.
But he was still the world best player?

He did not necessarily have tons of assists... if you checked I think that Del Piero would claim a high percentage... but he made things happen.

Smicer's situation is different and not even relevent...

Finally (I promise) if you put a player in a team with world class players and he has potential then he will become a much better player... Stick Jo Cole in an England shirt and look at what he can do

oh and I lied about the finally btw:)... are you going to watch the Cardiff v Stoke match?
 

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The thing about Joe Cole, because of his skill and threat, is that other teams pay close attention to him which lets other players have more freedom and create more. Cole is a brilliant talent and put him in a Liverpool team and he will shine. Imagine if he was turning defenders inside out while playing for Liverpool. The oppostion would probably put someone on him to stop him. What would then happen? Gerrard would tear the opposition apart with some precision passing and runs.
 

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Cardiff Stoke!!!!!

I'd rather sit through Everton reserve match!


Back on to the subject of Dunn... would he be so highly rated if he was not English
Doesn't the same hold true for Cole? Italy, Spain, South America the World in general is littered with players of equal potential ability as Cole yet you never here of them (Rarely are they hyped to such a degree even in there own country)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You hate Cardiff yet you hail from the fair city... at least in some capacity:confused:
 

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Are we really prepared for Joe Cole?
3 years ago, we bought this player called Vald Smicer, who played a similar position to Cole (Behind Strikers) and who set up tons of assists for the strikers for Lens in thier Championship winning season.

Ok, so Smicer was injured for most of the first season, then when he was getting better and provide assists here there and everywhere at the beginning of last season as a supplier behind just Owen, (I remember a hattrick of supplies for Owen against Saints).

Since then where do we place Smicer? Right midfield, left midfield, mark Carr, mark Pires, mark opposition wingers. Against Spurs, he was struggling in the think of midfield. Yes, I can imagine the ways we can destroy Cole after we bought him. We can place him in Smicer current position and ask him not to dribble, but to play it safe, make the obvious pass as well as tracking the opposition winger or attacking full back all the time.

Cole in Left midfield! Yeah, great idea!
 

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I agree that Cole would be wasted, almost ruined in our current system. At the moment the system doesn't really allow for any individualism and skillful brilliance. But if we become more attacking next season, as many expect, then maybe we could incorporate Cole in our team. Our defence but our midfield will transform. We really do need two creative midfielders because i think we can probably rely on our defence now. We don't need another 4 defenders in midfield like we've had so far.
 

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Cardiff

You hate Cardiff yet you hail from the fair city... at least in some capacity
I didn't say I hate them, I said I'd rather sit through an Everton reserve game.

I have no love for CCFC, no connection other than hailing from the same city, and I certainly don't have the interest of the club at heart.

My friends have become Cardiff fans (due to success) and I have refused to ever go to a game of theirs because I don't support them.

It's more indifference than anything else.
 

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So we can't win the PL anymore. At least i hope we finish above Manure. So all i can say is. C'mon Arsenal!
 

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Ok.... I will support Arsenal till the end of the season. I don't want Man U to win the title as they don't deserve it for their performance they showed this season.... :D :devil:
 

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i actually agree with ya arthro!

united dont deserve the title this seaosn which is sad considering the squad we have this year.

Srsenal have been the best team, but sometimes the best team doesnt win it... ( many of u will say it has happened 7 out of the last 9 years ;))
 
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