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Which is Brasil's Biggest Club?

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Cachorro
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Inspired by ViscaBarcaInter's thread in the World Football forum, I thought the question of "which is Brazil's BIGGEST Club" might be an interesting topic for us. ;) You can hop along to the link above and see what people from other nations think – it may come as a surprise at times :D – but I'd really like to know what our community thinks.

The first matter is, of course, what criteria we should use to determine what makes a club "bigger" than another. Is it the number of fans? The number of trophies? In that case, what's more important, domestic or international honours? What weight should the clubs' infrastructure (training facilities, stadium, youth-squad system) have?

For argument's sake, ViscaBarcaInter proposed the following set of criteria:

1- Money generating power
2- Domestic success
3- International success
4- Stadium
5- Fans, both in terms of size of support and spread of fans
6- Famous players
7- Financial muscle = spending power
8- Achievements in any field (other sports than football)
9- Outside factors (if the club has political, social connections or trivia that adds to the club's significance)

But, of course, everyone is entitled to their own criteria. I ask only that you clarify which criteria is more relevant to you, so we can debate the merits of your choices. :)

And one last request – let's keep this respectful and civil, please. One club being bigger than another doesn't mean that one club's fans are in any way "better" than the other club's fans, so there is NO need to take this discussion personally. Let's debate each other's arguments and avoid sterile exchanges of insults. :shades:
 

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Flamengo because we have more supporters than the others, because we have supporters all over the country and because we have many many titles. And also because we play at Maracanã.


But in reality is really hard to say which team is the biggest one.
 

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Mourinho & Cassano!!
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Santos

None Other No Other

Santos
 

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Sao Paulo could be the more suited for all the criteria of Viscabarca, only the number 9 I am not sure about...
 

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It's Santos. But I voted Bahia because I am biased. :embarass:

1- Santos
2- Flamengo
3- Corinthians
4- São Paulo
5- Vasco
6- Gremio
7- Cruzeiro
8- Palmeiras
9- Internacional
10- Fluminense
11- Botafogo
12- Atletico-Mg
13 - Bahia
14 - Guarani
15- Atletico-PR
16- Vitória
17- Coritiba
18- São Caetano
19- Goiás
20- Santa Cruz.


1- Money generating power. Corinthians(they find partners all the time).
2- Domestic success. Flamengo (5 times brazilian champion) and Santos (8 times brazilian champion)
3- International success. 1- Santos 2- São Paulo 3- Gremio 4- Flamengo 5- Gremio 6- Vasco 7- Cruzeiro. (the reason Palmeiras is only 8 in my list)
4- Stadium. São Paulo
5- Fans, both in terms of size of support and spread of fans. Size: Flamengo and Corinthians. Most fanatic fans: Bahia and Atletico-MG
6- Famous players. This one I think it is even between the best teams
7- Financial muscle = spending power. São Paulo
8- Achievements in any field (other sports than football) Vasco.
9- Outside factors (if the club has political, social connections or trivia that adds to the club's significance) Flamengo and Corinthians.

Santos for me is the biggest club because they win the two major categories (Domestic and International Sucess)
PS: São Caetano is only number 18 in my list because they don't have a lot of fans and they are too young. And you can make a case for Bahia being above some teams I put above them , because they are 2 time brazilian champions and first team to be in the Libertadores. But I understand that team like Atletico and Fluminense are kind of more feared than Bahia.
 

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Are you guys talking about the current situation or since football started in Brasil. Kindly clear that part up. I just somehow got the feeling that it is based on recent years and not the ENTIRE history of Brasilian football? :confused:
 

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São Paulo....just look at the Conmebol ranking, the Placar ranking, the old CBF ranking (the new says Gremio is the best hauhahahua)....all the existing rankings....

Look at the international titles, national titles, year of fundation, stadium, financial power, categorias de base, players in the national team....... in many of these sao paulo is the best. And Sao Paulo has the best soccer t-shirt of all times too :D

Palmeiras is second...needs some international sucess
 

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Legend
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One question :
G-Man mentionned that Fla doesn't own their own stadium. Who owns the Maracana then? The city of Rio? The CBF? Some wealthy billionaire? Some corporation? Who?

And what's all this fuss then when the Flamenguistas sing non-stop and everywhere :"O Maraca é nosso". :googly:

Does it mean they own it, officially? Or morally (and historically) since it was their stadium in the beginning? Just like it is with the San Siro being originally the Stadium of Milan, but Inter, not having a shelter, invited themselves in, originally for a short stay, to make it eventually their permanent stadium?:groan:

Obriga galera ;)
 

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Maracanã is from the city of Rio...

The flamenguistas sing "O MARACA É NOSSO!" when there are more than 60.000 fans, to say that they rule there.
 

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G-Man mentionned that Fla doesn't own their own stadium.
Flamengo owns Gávea. Unfortunately it's so small (around 5 000 is the maximum capacity) that we don't use it anymore for professional games.
 

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For me as a foreigner, Flamengo was the first Brazilian club I heard of and it remained so for several years until I found the others in some sporting magazine. Considering achievements throughout the history, Fla is also top of the list. That's why I voted Flamengo as the biggest Brazilian club.
 

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1- Money generating power: Corinthias, MSI
2- Domestic success: Flamengo, biggest one
3- International success: Sao Paulo and Santos, Libertadores winners
4- Stadium: Sao Paulo, Morumbi biggest private stadium in world.
5- Fans, both in terms of size of support and spread of fans: Support Atletico + Bahia, Size, Flamengo Corinthias Sao Paulo
6- Famous players: Santos and Corinthias
7- Financial muscle = spending power Tough one...but I'd have to say Corinthias
8- Achievements in any field (other sports than football): Sao Paulo, all other sports are practiced there and The sub 14 has been World Winners back in 2000
9- Outside factors Tough one
 

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In domestic sucess I would say Palmeiras...
Money generating power is not Corinthians, it's MSI huahuaauh
And "famous players" I'm sure it's not Corinthians....Santos of course.
 

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Using Garrincha list I used this logic:

1 - Money Generating Power: Obviously Corinthians is in the top. Cruzeiro manages well and Sao Paulo do very well without partners.
2 - Domestic Sucess is a non-factor that would cut down only for Example Vitoria or Goias. Of course some like Santos outsanding, but the difference is small enough to keep everyone up.
3 - International Sucess: Here the list for libertadores winners only (Palmeiras, Santos, Sao Paulo, Vasco, Flamengo, Gremio, Cruzeiro)
4 - Stadium: No one Denies that Sao Paulo outsand here. Santos and Atletico-Pr have honoralbe mentions.
5 - Fans is again a non-factor. I do not care about researches made, i have technical doubts about the results, but any of the top clubs here can claim to have enough fans to be great.
6 - Famous players is non-factor. Botafogo and Santos of course outsand here but is there any big club here that lacks several famous names ? (Sao Caetano not included :))
7 - Spending power is not relevant since here is more important how to spend it and no club here is a genius.
8 - Other fields: The clubs of Rio have some tradition of footbal although today this is but a shadow, Some clubs (Atletico, Palmeiras, Corinthians) tryied they go in volley or basketball, some had sucess in athletism. But I must point, Adhemar Ferreira da Silva was a Sao Paulo athlete.
9 - The Outside Factors in politics put Rio Teams and up there, the Media put SP and RJ, the history puts SP and RJ (history as the formation of our footbal was focused there) and Sao Paulo state richness and size help SP teams.

So, only one club was in all 9: Sao Paulo.
 
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