Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Xtratime Allstar
Joined
·
9,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
What country produces the best players? This is not in 2002, this is of all time.

In Europe it's either France or Italy i think but in the whole world i would go for Brazil/Argentina. There are almost Argies and Brazilians in Every european league and they have been producing some of the best players for decades. Even in the 30's there were Argies in Italy.

Even some players who didn't make the first league in the 2 countries are playing in Europe. So they are really great producers of good players :)

1. Brazil / Argentina

I just can't chose one of them....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
nasty nick said:
What country produces the best players? This is not in 2002, this is of all time.

In Europe it's either France or Italy i think but in the whole world i would go for Brazil/Argentina. There are almost Argies and Brazilians in Every european league and they have been producing some of the best players for decades. Even in the 30's there were Argies in Italy.

Even some players who didn't make the first league in the 2 countries are playing in Europe. So they are really great producers of good players :)

1. Brazil / Argentina

I just can't chose one of them....
Yeah i agree with you ot´s a toss between us and the brazilians...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,357 Posts
I agree with you.Argentina and Brazil have produced and continue to produce the best players.Although Argentina has less quantity and more quality when Brazil has more quantity.I say this because you can see fewer Argies in the leagues but everywhere they play they are the stars of their teams...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,168 Posts
If we're talking volume of great players, then I see no way to claim it's anyone but Brazil. The number of stars produced in the land of Samba cannot be rivalled.

But Brazil is more than 10 times as big as Holland populationwise, and if you look at the number of :star: Holland produce in that context- then I think they're better at producing players.

Ciao.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,335 Posts
I'm a bit biased here seeing how there's Portuguese in me but I think Portugal produces a lot of talent. No where near Brazil's numbers but they sure can produce.

Portugal has 1/6 of Italy's population and 1/17 of Brazil's population.
 

·
Canonized
Joined
·
37,734 Posts
Brazil, miles ahead of any other country.!

Where were the argies in the 50's, 60's , until mid 70's???

Even when they won teh WC in 86 they only had a handfull of very good players, causethe rest of the side was pretty average.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36,376 Posts
It depends on your definition of "best players". What's the measuring stick? Club success? Trophies? National Teams?

Holland I think, just look at their lineup and more importantly, the great players missing from their lineup. France would have to be there too I think, they have a selection of 40+ players eligable and playing classy football.

Population-wise, over the last 10 years we have produced some great players and had tremendous national team success, with a population of 4.4 million. Nobody can beat that.
 

·
Star Player
Joined
·
4,703 Posts
first glen and then ero hit the nail on the head......if this was to be calculated per capita it could be very interesting :)


But on the whole its Brasil by a country mile and then some, argentina only in recent years have started to produce en mass, so therefore they cant be compared to the Kings Brasil who have continually produced throughout football history.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Were you born yesterday, or are you striving to convince! In both cases, u better back up your conjecture of the Brazilians superiority. Oh, how I’m sick of this pointless dispute. I’ll make some effort and I’ll make it short.

You were asking where were the Argentineans back in the 50s, 60s. I tell u buddy they were all over Europe, wining titles with their clubs, making history. Now where were the Brazilians, Did they make the same impact in Europe. What about Di Stefano, was there a brazilian player who had the same impact in Europe. How about Omar Sivori, who in Argentina formed with Maschio and Angelillo(Intermilan) the “Trio de la Muerte” played few games with national team, won Copa America before emigrating to Europe to became one of the best players in Juventus history. The trio mentioned never played a world cup with Argentina. Now, how much impact in European football the Brazilians made then.

What about the 30s, Argentina made it to the Olympic and world cup final in1928 & 1930 respectively, send their amateur team (you can’t rate them, since the professionals were left in Argentina) to the next world cup. At the same moment in time Italy (the champion) played with four Argentineans: Orsi, Monti, Guaita, and Demaria.

40s & 50s were the golden age of Argentinean football, not the 90s, not now. Sadly & unfortunately they never had the opportunity to showcase their talents & skills in the World Cups, for different reasons.

If this thread is about Bra VS Arg. the question then, next to the world Cup titles what did Brazil accomplish more than Argentina in Football? Whether at club or national team level?!! Argentinean clubs won more Libertadores cup titles, especially at the time when the best Argentinean players migrate to Europe while the best Brazilians played with their local clubs. Argentina won more Copa America (at times when its matters).
Vs. Brazil, Argentina won 33 times in most cases when their best players had left to Europe, while Brazil won 31. Argentina had the better record when it comes to winning in the rivals territory as well….now who is really better? A tournament team (teams) or a team (teams) that won more international titles!

I would like to finish this argument with a note: History credit Argentina and Uruguay for teaching the world the style of football most teams are playing right now, more ball control skills and possession. After the dazzling show of football both countries illustrate to the Europeans in 1928 Olympic final, the correspondent of the English Daily Express wrote “There is no team in my country that could put on a show as great as the one Uruguay and Argentina have” . Few years later, Italy; among other countries acknowledging the technical superiority of the players from the former mentioned South American nations, include in their team neutralize players from both countries to win their first world Cup….where were the Brazilians?

There you have it my friend; a nation of 35 million inhabitants beat the one with 5 times their population. Argentineans made more impact, won more titles, not only in 50s & 60s but also 30s, 40s, 70s, 80s…. where were the Brazilians?
 

·
Xtratime Allstar
Joined
·
9,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
This thread is about the Nation that has produces the best players both past and present, the most players that have made success in big clubs and leagues. The most internationally known players. Both Quality and Quantity. Hard to explain but i hope you get my point.
 

·
Canonized
Joined
·
37,734 Posts
jrzi,
good post, but , and a big BUT;) Todo mundo tenta, mais so o BRASIL pode ser PENTA!:D :tongue:


Your argument about 1930, can also be used by us. We had 2 teams , one from Rio and the other from Sao Paulo, and the regional biased impeded that Brazil mixed both teams. So the Rio team went (or was it the Sao Paulo one...don't know??:( ) and we lost it.

About the 40's i'll accept the River Plate team, but then again the Vasco team in 49 was South American champion and the base of the Brazil runners up team of 1950, were we where the extreme favourites, and the spirits of football made Obdulio Varela do all that stuff to us.....and 2 people die of heart attack in the Maracana.

Now coming to the thing that Brazilian players never suceeded in Europe in the 50's and 60's is a big lie. Julinho Botelho has a statue in Firenze, and is still remembered by many Fiorentina fans as one of the greatest ever players to play for them. Evaristo is a star both in Barcelona and Real Madrid.......something quite difficult to achieve, specially when you were a Brazilian back in the 60's. Didi also played for Real Madrid but Di Stefano burned him in Real. When Spain met with Brazil in the 62 World cup finals, and just look at the score board to see how Didi got his revenge against those jealous Madrilenos that could not kick or pass a ball like him! ;) :tongue:

ALso , continuing in the European crusade of the past. There was also a guy called Mazzola, who played fro Brazil in 58 and was sub of Pele in the World CUp. He moved to Juventus were his named changed to Altafini, and played the 62 World Cup for Italy, and also was European champions with Milan the same year.


Now as this thread is not a Brazil and Argentina war (let's leave this for 2 months time, were it will be more fun to argue against you lot;) :D :cool: ) let me list some players that are KNOWN for talent. These are players of the highest level, they have to be VERY GOOD, good rating don't enter!;) Just a little overview in a glimpse.

20's
Friendirch (scored more than 1000 goals)

30's
Leonidas da Silva
Domingos da Guia

40's:
????

50's:
Barbosa
Zizinho
Danilo Alvim
Bauer
Castilho
Canhoteiro
Julinho Botelho
Nilton Santos
Didi
Pele
Zagallo
Garrincha
Claudio
Mazzola
Bellini
Vava
Djalma Santos
Gilmar etc..etc..etc..

60':
Gerson
Zito
Amarildo
Coutinho
Mengalvio
Almir
Carlos Alberto
Dorval
Evaristo
Brito
Piazza
Dirceu Lopes
Tostao
Jairzinho
Rivelino
Clodoaldo
Paulo Cesar Caju etc...etc..etc..

70's:
Dudu
Ademir da Guia
Roberto Dinamite

etc

etc

80's
zico
socrates etcc

90's
romario
ronaldo etc.etc..
 

·
Xtratime Allstar
Joined
·
9,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Ze, we also had Amarildo from Milan in the 60's and a guy called Sormani played in Serie A too.

You both made great posts and sure know your stuff, maybe we shall make a thread about Copa America and talk about some history. I have a book about it so i know i wouldn't mind making a thread in the Conmebol forum discussing the history of South American Football, cup for cup ;)
 

·
Canonized
Joined
·
37,734 Posts
nasty nick,
As Parreira says: "Copa America is a waste of time. It only serves to bug the achilles tendom of the national manager". And i agree with him!;)
 

·
Xtratime Allstar
Joined
·
9,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Ze, nowadays it's a waste of space to have the Copa America but it has not always been like that, in the early days of the Copa America 10's-30's Uruguay dominated and produces among the world's finest players, Argentina woke up in the 30's and played very well, We have Brazil who had the best Copa team ever in 1949. And so on..... It's really a tournament that have included many good players through the years. It's worth discussing.

I have all results, scorers and stuff too :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,417 Posts
Nick (I won't call you 'nasty'!)

I for one am interested in the Copa America - no Europeans there after all! What is the name of that book and where can I get it?
 

·
Xtratime Allstar
Joined
·
9,820 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
It's in Italian and it's from the Calcio 2000. Difficult to get since it's 2 years old but i believe you can order those numbers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,529 Posts
Brilliant post jrzi. You're right the 40's and 50's were the golden age of Arg football. The quality of players back then were really outstanding. If only there would have been a couple of WC's in the 40's...Look at the number of Copa America's that were won during the period from the 40's to the 60's. Our players were internationally dominant from the 40's to the 60's.

I think that onwards from the late 90's another golden age in Arg football has began to evolve, let's see where it takes us.

jrzi said:
Were you born yesterday, or are you striving to convince! In both cases, u better back up your conjecture of the Brazilians superiority. Oh, how I’m sick of this pointless dispute. I’ll make some effort and I’ll make it short.

You were asking where were the Argentineans back in the 50s, 60s. I tell u buddy they were all over Europe, wining titles with their clubs, making history. Now where were the Brazilians, Did they make the same impact in Europe. What about Di Stefano, was there a brazilian player who had the same impact in Europe. How about Omar Sivori, who in Argentina formed with Maschio and Angelillo(Intermilan) the “Trio de la Muerte” played few games with national team, won Copa America before emigrating to Europe to became one of the best players in Juventus history. The trio mentioned never played a world cup with Argentina. Now, how much impact in European football the Brazilians made then.

What about the 30s, Argentina made it to the Olympic and world cup final in1928 & 1930 respectively, send their amateur team (you can’t rate them, since the professionals were left in Argentina) to the next world cup. At the same moment in time Italy (the champion) played with four Argentineans: Orsi, Monti, Guaita, and Demaria.

40s & 50s were the golden age of Argentinean football, not the 90s, not now. Sadly & unfortunately they never had the opportunity to showcase their talents & skills in the World Cups, for different reasons.

If this thread is about Bra VS Arg. the question then, next to the world Cup titles what did Brazil accomplish more than Argentina in Football? Whether at club or national team level?!! Argentinean clubs won more Libertadores cup titles, especially at the time when the best Argentinean players migrate to Europe while the best Brazilians played with their local clubs. Argentina won more Copa America (at times when its matters).
Vs. Brazil, Argentina won 33 times in most cases when their best players had left to Europe, while Brazil won 31. Argentina had the better record when it comes to winning in the rivals territory as well….now who is really better? A tournament team (teams) or a team (teams) that won more international titles!

I would like to finish this argument with a note: History credit Argentina and Uruguay for teaching the world the style of football most teams are playing right now, more ball control skills and possession. After the dazzling show of football both countries illustrate to the Europeans in 1928 Olympic final, the correspondent of the English Daily Express wrote “There is no team in my country that could put on a show as great as the one Uruguay and Argentina have” . Few years later, Italy; among other countries acknowledging the technical superiority of the players from the former mentioned South American nations, include in their team neutralize players from both countries to win their first world Cup….where were the Brazilians?

There you have it my friend; a nation of 35 million inhabitants beat the one with 5 times their population. Argentineans made more impact, won more titles, not only in 50s & 60s but also 30s, 40s, 70s, 80s…. where were the Brazilians?
 

·
Missing Guidolin.
Joined
·
21,157 Posts
Without a doubt in my mind, Italy always produce the best Defenders. Just look at our current back 3 of Canna, Nesta and Maldini. I just don't think Italy can be beaten in that area of the field.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top