[Grinch]

While reading the "who's the real European powerhouse" thread, it occurred to me that another interesting question would be "who's the biggest powerhouse after Italy and Germany?" England? France? Spain? The Netherlands? I'm casting the first vote for England, firmly confident that someone will disagree (this being XT an' all). So let's hear your thoughts on the matter!

And no namecalling, please! If everyone behaves we can all sing "kumbaya" together later. :hopeful:

 

[numerodix]

You mean national team wise? Well England and France both have a World Cup, the others don't. If you wanna break the tie then France appeared in the final twice (and won the Euro twice) p

 

[Dutch Lion]

If you only look at titles then it would be France (1 WC & 2 EC).

England has 1 WC and Spain 2 EC... and my Holland just only 1 EC.

 

[Freddy Adu]

Holland may have only ever won one European Championships, but have produced an incredible amount of wonderful footballers.

It's probably France who come third though.

 

[The Green One]

Looking at club football its only between England and Spain in terms of European trophies won. There are a few criteria to consider however.

 

[Andy Christ]

England invented football and they've been on the top all the time (over 100 years) both in club and NT level so they're number one.

Italy is second, Germany/Spain share the 3rd spot. Next comes Holland, then France.

World Cup titles aren't everything.

 

[Rihana]

Looking at club football its only between England and Spain in terms of European trophies won. There are a few criteria to consider however.

I thought it was NT's

Thats why I voted for La France.

 

[GICA]

Probably France.

England invented football and they've been on the top all the time (over 100 years) both in club and NT level so they're number one.

Is this serious? So we have to consider England cause they "invented" football? And the "they´ve been on the top all the time" is very relative.

I don´t deny that England is a candidate to be the third (yeah the third) European powerhouse, but let´s give serious reasons please.

 

[Rihana]

England invented football and they've been on the top all the time (over 100 years) both in club and NT level so they're number one.

Italy is second, Germany/Spain share the 3rd spot. Next comes Holland, then France.

World Cup titles aren't everything.

Its got everything to do with World Cups...what are you basing your assumption on that England are No.1...erm, that just because they invented football they should hold the No.1 position unconditionally even though last time the NT reached a semi final on foreign soil was in 1990?

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

England was comfortably the best team in the world untill the 1950's.

 

[hypno]

England invented football and they've been on the top all the time (over 100 years) both in club and NT level so they're number one.

Italy is second, Germany/Spain share the 3rd spot. Next comes Holland, then France.

World Cup titles aren't everything.

Are you kidding? Holland, Spain and England ahead of France? :rollani:
Please come on....
What drugs are you on???

 

[GICA]

England was comfortably the best team in the world untill the 1950's.

Yeah, the thing is that we are in 2009. 60 years have passed since then

 

[Rihana]

"Andy"s remark is almost as ludicrous as Capitan Totti's gaff's :howler:

 

[Andy Christ]

I'm talking about countries football scene in general: both national team and club football.

And of course it matters a lot that football was invented in England because it gave them and the Scots such a head start. As Quetz pointed out they were the best team in the world until 1950's when they actually started to regularly play international matches with teams outside the British Isles.

France only reached the top of the world in 1998, that's 100 years later than England.

 

[Marc]

Yeah, the thing is that we are in 2009. 60 years have passed since then

60 years where no one team has dominated, like England did beforehand. Depends if you count pre-war football or not but to ignore that fact is slightly revisionist of you, not that you're alone. Football began when England fell from grace going by XT.

 

[camelface]

England doesn't ring with powerhouse though like Germany for example, in modern times. The 1950s are a very long time ago.

 

[numerodix]

I'm talking about countries football scene in general: both national team and club football.

And of course it matters a lot that football was invented in England because it gave them and the Scots such a head start. As Quetz pointed out they were the best team in the world until 1950's when they actually started to regularly play international matches with teams outside the British Isles.

France only reached the top of the world in 1998, that's 100 years later than England.

Well in that case it's all the more mystifying how little England has achieved on the international scene. As you say, France came along in 1998 (though actually sometime in the 80s) and they've done so much more in the same amount of time.

If you have a longer career but you win fewer titles, isn't that a bad thing? How do you "dominate" in 30-50 and not win anything?

 

[Andy Christ]

England doesn't ring with powerhouse though like Germany for example, in modern times. The 1950s are a very long time ago.

That's irrelevant. 1990's will be a very long time ago in 2050's when United FrancoBenelux Emirates or whoever will dominate European football. It doesn't mean that the past should be forgotten or that 1980's mean more than 1930's.

 

[Rihana]

But England haven't got much to show for their dominance have they?!

Apart from 1966 World cup.

 

[Andy Christ]

Yes, they've been unlucky on international level. But if World Cups had been played from 1910's and if they would've bothered to play there (as they didn't bother with WC 1930-1938), then they would have much more. Historically England and Brazil would be in the league of their own then.