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Freedom is the liberty to do whatever you like, whenever you like as long as anyone and anything does not suffer an attack (physical, verbal, moral or any other form of) as an effect of your actions.



What is your definition of Freedom?
 

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Freedom in what sense as a person or as a nation

as a person its your right to express yourself no matter how radical it amy be, its the right to think and act as you please as long as your actions cause no harm to others. freedom is the right to be protected from excursions from govt and others...freedom is the right to privacy, to have your views and not have them be abridged by govt or business.

as a nation

its to have a constitution or something of that legal nature that protects your citizens and lets them have human rights and then its the job of nation to protect those rights. as a nation its the right to do inside your BORDERS AS YOU PLEASE. its the right to not have outside infulence act subversive in your country and its the right for people to elect their man by popular vote, though it may be tyranny of majority and largely based on the curent political winds, its the right of the people to pick who they wish.


Freedom is not having an overseer in your nation exerting influnce.
 

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Lav said:
Freedom in what sense as a person or as a nation

as a person its your right to express yourself no matter how radical it amy be, its the right to think and act as you please as long as your actions cause no harm to others. freedom is the right to be protected from excursions from govt and others...freedom is the right to privacy, to have your views and not have them be abridged by govt or business.

as a nation

its to have a constitution or something of that legal nature that protects your citizens and lets them have human rights and then its the job of nation to protect those rights. as a nation its the right to do inside your BORDERS AS YOU PLEASE. its the right to not have outside infulence act subversive in your country and its the right for people to elect their man by popular vote, though it may be tyranny of majority and largely based on the curent political winds, its the right of the people to pick who they wish.


Freedom is not having an overseer in your nation exerting influnce.

Which is more important...the freedom of the individual or the freedom of the nation state. Should we as individuals work towards evey other individual on earth having the freedom to exist without the threat of intolerance, torture and harrasment based on political, religious, footballing affiliations;) or gender issues? Or should people be allowed the freedom to inflict intolerance, torture and harrasment on people under the guise that their freedom to do so is justified as they happen to control the geographical and political environment that other individuals happen to exist in, and which other nations must interact with. Its an interesting debate.
 

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Freedom is being yourself, something the majority of people are too cowardly to assume.
 

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Fred Elliot said:
Which is more important...the freedom of the individual or the freedom of the nation state. Should we as individuals work towards evey other individual on earth having the freedom to exist without the threat of intolerance, torture and harrasment based on political, religious, footballing affiliations;) or gender issues? Or should people be allowed the freedom to inflict intolerance, torture and harrasment on people under the guise that their freedom to do so is justified as they happen to control the geographical and political environment that other individuals happen to exist in, and which other nations must interact with. Its an interesting debate.
well if u take away individual freedom then u rip the root of the tree...and withouth a root a tree cannot live.

now then i snever said they had right to inflict pain and harrasement.

as for the last part of your qoute...hmm who seems to be
" allowed the freedom to inflict intolerance, torture and harrasment on people under the guise that their freedom to do so is justified as they happen to control the geographical and political environment that other individuals happen to exist in, and which other nations must interact with."

reminds me of a certain war..where we inflict our belifs upon them...and not even that we even force our choice to lead them upon them.
 

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Lav said:
well if u take away individual freedom then u rip the root of the tree...and withouth a root a tree cannot live.

now then i snever said they had right to inflict pain and harrasement.

as for the last part of your qoute...hmm who seems to be
" allowed the freedom to inflict intolerance, torture and harrasment on people under the guise that their freedom to do so is justified as they happen to control the geographical and political environment that other individuals happen to exist in, and which other nations must interact with."

reminds me of a certain war..where we inflict our belifs upon them...and not even that we even force our choice to lead them upon them.

I wonder if beliefs are being inflicted in the aftermath of 'a certain war'? Seems to me that religious tolerance has never been more evident than it is right now, after 2 decades of repression....or is that a bad thing?
 

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Fred Elliot said:
I wonder if beliefs are being inflicted in the aftermath of 'a certain war'? Seems to me that religious tolerance has never been more evident than it is right now, after 2 decades of repression....or is that a bad thing?
so u dont belive that capitalism is ebing showed down thier throats.

u dont belive that McD's will set up in prominent view?

the american way of life is ebing exported and that is why we have Al-Qaeda and other such group's. they have a disdain for america due to their attepmts to americanize thier world.

The fact is the american way of life, mass consumerism, is being exported is something you cannot deny, and that is more then anything an American belif.

Relgious belif is not the issue at all, though it would be far too easy for me to point out that the US would oppose any radical religious groups, and then again we would clearly have an obstruction of relgious belif, but i dont need to bring that up. Yet ;) :)
 

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Lav said:
though it would be far too easy for me to point out that the US would oppose any radical religious groups, and then again we would clearly have an obstruction of relgious belif
for them, it isn't as simple as that. they don't just go and oppose radical religious groups because they are radical religious groups.. they do this if it satisfies its economic and political wants. there have been many cases when the U.S have actually supported hard-line religious groups. this might be the case in Iraq as well, because those who hated Saddam most were and are the fundamentalists.
 

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i agree bob

but i jsut wanna prove that there are so many holes in thier argument :D

i dont even have to go for the best point
 

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Lav said:
so u dont belive that capitalism is ebing showed down thier throats.

u dont belive that McD's will set up in prominent view?

the american way of life is ebing exported and that is why we have Al-Qaeda and other such group's. they have a disdain for america due to their attepmts to americanize thier world.

The fact is the american way of life, mass consumerism, is being exported is something you cannot deny, and that is more then anything an American belif.

Relgious belif is not the issue at all, though it would be far too easy for me to point out that the US would oppose any radical religious groups, and then again we would clearly have an obstruction of relgious belif, but i dont need to bring that up. Yet ;) :)
Lav I accept your idealism but I have to tell you that we're not really talking about a clash of ideologies here. A certain country already was part of the capitalist world. Why do you think there are oil wells set up there? Who do you think was buying that commodity, and why was it on sale if not to bring in revenue?

And while we're talking about religious beliefs being obstructed, would you care to tell me what exactly a certain dictator was doing in the course of his 'administration' of a certain country. Or is that part of this 'national self determinism' that people seem to be defending on here.

I dislike McDonalds as much as the next man, but I'd rather something as innoxuous as that than suffer under a really virulent ideology where I couldn't practice my beliefs, speak my mind, have my girl friend work in a job that made full use of her intellect, or choose whether or not I wanted a McDonald meal or made my own.
 

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fred mi amigo,

dont ever think im saying anything in favor of saadam cause i aint.

he is the last man ill back

BUT,
what the US did wasnt right, and thats what im against, they cant just invade a sovergin nation. under guise of self defense from non existant weapons.

then put in thier own men in charge of that country and claim it a democracy and that the ppl are free.
 

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That word americans put infront of fries.... Freedom fries.
ridiculous :howler:
 
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