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Discussion Starter #1
It seems that playing with 3 up-front has worked well for us. I think Zlatan and Zalayeta are key because they are big players who can do something with the ball.

It seems that we have found a system that can work without Nedved. This is VERY important as we are not so Nedved dependant now. I wonder whether Nedved's return would automatically see us revert back to 4-4-2. Its 70% probability that it will.

BUT....

imagine:

-------------Buffon---------------

Zebina---Thuram---Canna---Zambo

---Camo----Emerson----Nedved---

-----Zala---Trez---DP/Zlatan-----


OK....maybe a bit unbalanced - but worth a shot in a game.

Certainly, if Camo is unfit to play we can slot Nedved in the midfield 3 and slot another defensive mid to replace Camo.

Chelsea also play a 4-3-3 with Makelele being the most defensive mid.

I would give it a try.....what do you reckon?
 

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Well if you play it with Zlatan, Trez and DP up front it would pretty much resemble Milan's X-mas tree formation. It may suit you well.
 

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it seems DP does fit very well in the trequartista role this season. It adds creativity to the team. But I'm afraid that creativity is not Capello's way of football.

My suggestion would be:

--------------- Buffon

Zebina - Thuram Cannavaro --- Zambrotta

---------- Emerson

--- Camoranesi ---- Del Piero ---- Nedved

-------- Trezeguet ----- Zlatan

with DP and Neddie roaming on the field
 

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I don't know if Del Piero has the physical condition for that, kcII.

I don't think a 4-3-3 with Nedved a la Barça's 4-3-3 would work. Nedved is old, if he was a bit younger, it would have more chances to work. Anyway, it's worth a try in games against small teams and when the team needs to score desperately.
 

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kcII said:
it seems DP does fit very well in the trequartista role this season. It adds creativity to the team. But I'm afraid that creativity is not Capello's way of football.
So so so true. Del Piero likes to play in the trequartista since he's guarded less closely and has more space, but ... you said it.
 

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I had a dream last night. The dream was we were in the final of CL and were fielding the following team:
---------------Gigi
Zebina---Canna----Thuram....Zambro

Camo-------Emerson------Nedved

Zlatan--------------------Mutu
------------Trez

The dream didn't last long because I got so excited I wet myself;).
 

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kcII said:
it seems DP does fit very well in the trequartista role this season. It adds creativity to the team. But I'm afraid that creativity is not Capello's way of football.
Well.... on paper it's a nice thought, but I have to ask you when you've seen Del Piero play well in a trequartista role this season, because in my recollection there's only been one game in which we've played the three man attack in which Del Piero really shone. Two weeks ago against Siena, and in that game he was a forward on the left side like last night. Not a trequartista.

To be honest I don't remember DP playing as a trequartista this season at all.

Personally I think DP is at his best when played as a striker in 4-4-2 because that's when he gets into the area the most, and despite his decreasing mobility, he is still dangerous in the area.
To be a trequartista these days you need physical characteristics Alex doesn't have. You need either the physical strenght Totti, Zidane, Rui Costa etc. have of fleet footedness a'la Aimar. Del Piero simply cannot cope with the physicality of fighting in midfield, and he doesn't have the pace to break away in midfield like for instance Camo does.

DP is a striker.
 

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I believe Del Piero has suffered by Capello's tactics and the arrival of Zlatan.

First it was the 4-4-2 that lacked creativity with Nedved's drop in form. Then even with the 4-3-3....creativity was there but Zlatan was now his problem. Capello sees Zlatan as a player that should always play. And he is a player that drops back a lot and is not an out-and-out striker. Del Piero does what he does with an out-and-out striker and creator behind him. (Zidane and Inzaghi....Nedved and Trezeguet).... this season he has rarely featured with Trezeguet and with Nedved's injury he had to play with Zlatan.

If you go back to the games against Siena,Messina, and Udinese.. you'll find that when Zlatan was asked to play a Trezeguet-like role, he struggled due to his bad finishing and unrestrainable urge to hog the ball ... last night however, if you watch Del Piero you will find that he had to go into that area and wait for the cross most of the time because Zlatan was dropping back. Alex is 5'8 and is very fragile when it comes to battling inside the area... so he was quiet during the first half. The only reason Capello took him out instead of Zalayeta is the latter's aerial superiority. Zalayeta who was incredibly great yesterday adds nothing but aerial superiority and physical presence to what Del Piero has to offer and that's what Capello likes.

With Trezeguet's introduction into the game...Zlatan dropped back to his favourite role where he takes on defenders. However, with his great skill, Zlatan still is a bad finisher and a very average creator for Trezeguet. He dribbles past players and all but rarely puts in a decent cross or well timed pass.... Zalayeta did what Del Piero could do and even do better but remained mainly because he was physically stronger...and Juve played well.

We very much need Trezeguet for the future because he is the only one who actually spends his time in the opposing area...and this is very important when we can actually create not when there's no creation whatsoever like the game against Palermo.


__________________
 

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Our solution is 4-3-3 with Trezeguet supported by Del Piero and Zlatan... with Zalayeta used as a sub....and when Nedved returns we have to integrate him into the central midfield area with Emerson and Camoranesi or Blasi according to the demands of each game.
 

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Del Piero proved he can play trequartista very well this season :star: . Siena was the most classic example of trequarista... he was given a complete FREE ROLE behind the strikers. This is what he likes best, he does with extreme elegance and efficency. This is what trequartista means...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Speaking of Del Piero.....I think he likes to be the one creating the plays. Even if he himself sais he is a striker. If I think back to his glory days, he played well when Juve played with 3 up-front (Vialli, Ravanelli) and then after when Zidane was in the team. Zidane is quite different to Nedved in that although people thought of him as a playmaker, he was more of an exceptional holding midfielder (i.e you couldn't get the ball of him) and he helped to create space for Del Piero who in turn created and converted chances. Nedved is a much more direct creator of chances and converter himself. Perhaps there is no coincidence that he played better when Zidane was in the team.

I think Del Piero's ideal position is an attacking left winger or 3rd striker in an attacking 3.

I believe that a 4-3-3 with Nedved, Emo and Camo would work and as long as Zambo doesn't push up too much, it could be reasonably balanced.

---------------Buffon-----------------

Zebina/---Thuram/---Canna/---Zambo/
Birri------Ferrara----Montero---Pessotto

----Camo/----Emerson/---Nedved/-----
-----Blasi------Tacch-----Olivera------

-------Zlatan/---Trez---Del Piero/-----
-------Zalayeta----------Mutu--------
 

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It is great that the team made it and due congratulations and condolences to the winners and losers. However, I'll be honest when I say that I enjoyed Lippi's victory much more, both in the manner of our victory and considering the relative strength of the opposition - we have a better team makeup now and Real is not what they were. I thought our best players of the night were Zlatan and Camo. The only player whom played somewhat below par was Zambro.

The 4-3-3 was necessitated by key injuries which even without, I do not think that we would be able to play it properly. Unfortunately, ADP has again been made to be an inevitable issue. He was subsituted for a different tactic and that is it, nothing more, nothing less. I'd like to think that he's best utilized as a trequartista behind the strikers but that is a role he doesn't like. Another option is a fantasista but this team cannot bank on being a man down, a risk with free roles. Anyway, our problems are many and more general than just an individual. Firstly, the team works harder than they should because there's no coherence, chemistry etc in the way they play. Certainly, creativity is an issue. However, individuals as experienced and accomplished as they are should be able to get around that to a certain extent through understanding. With the latter comes speed and frankly, Juve are horribly SLOW in both senses of the word. These are things which can and should be coached into. Also, we simply don't have the players for it. One glaring weakness was the range of passing or lack of rather, such as Zebina's accuracy limitation to within 10 yards, further reduced under pressure. I know its been said before but if Juve is looking to maintain the way they play, it would help to get distributors like Jankulovski, Pizarro etc if only for accurate 50-60 yarders to reach the forwards. In that sense, Beckham would do an excellent job in a recessed role for us. Obviously, complete packages of vision and technique such as Riquelme or Gerrard would be perfect but well ...

Back to the topic, Nedved, as Lippi found, is best utilized in a free role to do as he likes. A person of his workrate and attitude insures against the inherent risk of the role. Being shafted to the left like DP was in a 4-3-3 midfield will probably yield similar results as we have seen all season - mediocrity. The good news is with Nedved, DP and Trez practically rested for half a season, they should be fresh for the final sprint.
 

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The role of DP should not be just a scoring machine, we have tons of strikers to do that. he should be the one exploring and to tear down the defences of the other teams and creating chances for the strikers to score.
 

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del piero is a support striker. i think he plays his best as one but its important to have someone feeding him from behind the forwards. Looking back, Del Piero's best years were when he had the likes of Zidane creating in midfield.

Under Lippi's second era, Nedved was used behind the forwards and del piero still did fairly well. but now under capello, IMO he does suffer as i believe he, along with zlatan or trezeguet are not fed enough with the tactics used.

I dont see why the 4-3-3 cant be used with nedved, emerson and camo in midfield. i think nedved is underrated when talking about defensiveness. he has great work rate, and he is able to help out deeper in midfield if need be.

buffon
zebina thuram cannavaro zambrotta
camoranesi emerson nedved
zlatan trezeguet del piero

there is nothing wrong with that and i think we all agree that if all are in form, zalayeta should remain the super sub.
 

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Although I agree that the word trequartista isn't appropriate for DP. But I have the impression that in the Juve of 04-05 Zlatan is better as a support striker. He weighs a lot on the defence and he can hold the ball (as DP did in his glory days). But he is not a finisher at all.
But my point is that there is not enough creativity in the team. We have a first class defence but there is no line towards the strikers. A long with Nedved, DP could fill that role. In midfield he has more time then in the box and he can split defences with accurate passing.
And of course I'm very glad that we beat Real. But I doubt that we could have got the same result against Chelsea or Milan, teams with very good defences.
 

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At least we know the 4-3-3 is a viable alternative for us, which is good as we need all the options we have.

But with Nedved back, we'll definitely be too lightweight in midfield, as Neddy, Emerson and Camo are untouchables really. And that would leave just one genuine ball-winner in midfield.

I think a more flexible variation of the 4-4-2 is the way to go.
 

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Thats what it comes down to really,Capello's stubborness for not trying things,new things.For prefering a stale static formation.
 

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Osman said:
Thats what it comes down to really,Capello's stubborness for not trying things,new things.For prefering a stale static formation.
Precisely the reason why I don't participate in discussions about formations...it just won't happen.

V. interesting post there Chinq. I just hope that our weaknesses appear as obvious to Capello as they do to us.
 
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