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Discussion Starter #1
As i was watching the a recent Gold Cup game between Canada and Ecuador, and seeing how poor of a team Ecuador really is, the thing that struck me is "How did this team manage to come third in S.American qualifying?"

I mean Ecuador won, but they were horrible. Plus they lost to Haiti.

Yet they did so well in WC qualifying and beating Brazil.

Other than Argentina and to some extent Paraguay, what has happened to the level of the game in this continent?

Other than a player or two from each team (excluding Argentina), there is little quality. If Brazil is still to be thought of as a very good country in your continent, but lost to Ecuador, and was behind them in the standings, what does this mean?

I was going to be cheering for Ecuador because i thought they could possibly surprise. But seeing them these last two games, and than an thinking of those behind them in the standings (Brazil, Uruguay), its going to be a very short WC for those teams.

But good luck anyway.
 

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Did Ecuador had their european based players? Kaviedes, Delgado and De la Cruz are REALLY important to them...
 

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Taking nothing away from Ecuador, they did have a major advantage in playing their WCQ matches at home in Quito, a city with an altitude of over 2800 meters. When they play away from Quito this advantage is eliminated and one get's a clearer picture of the overall strength and depth of the team.
 

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This would also be a factor. There are several key players and I think that they may have been without some of their top players.

AMOROSO! said:
Did Ecuador had their european based players? Kaviedes, Delgado and De la Cruz are REALLY important to them...
 

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I agree Ecuador played horribly especially the game against Haiti. You guys are correct the home field advantage did help Ecuador in the WCQ and missing IMO their 3 best players (Delgado, Kaviedes and De la Cruz) really hurt them. Just like many other SA teams with the exception of Argie and Brazil the talent pool is not too deep. Especially for strikers which IMO only Delgado, Kaviedes and maybe Juarez are the only ones Ecuador has who are of high quality.

More importanly Ecuador got to the WC because of their team play. Yes playing in Quito certainly help but playing so well as a team was what got them through. In the game against Haiti that was not existent, mainly because of the long layoff and/or lack of playing time in the last few months for at least 7 of the players who started the game.

These are not excuses Ecuador should beat Haiti with relative ease, but that was the reality. Against Canada the team improved somewhat but again without Delgado or Kaviedes they just didn't have anyone who can score goals. The guys who played up front in this tournament are decent wingers and forwards but not strikers who can score consistently.

Almost as worrysome is to see the dependence on De la Cruz to break the other team defense and create offensive opportunities through him or space for other ones to create them. Without him the lack of creativity is very evident.

I am sure the team will improve with time, Bolillo Gomez is too good a coach for it to be any other way. :)
 

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I noticed that Cruz, Delgado, and Kavides were missing right away, but beside them was the rest of the team, what u would see in the world cup?

I know Aguinaga & Cevallo are but what abt the rest?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
They did lack any scoring ability. The first goal vs. Canada was a scramble in front, and a result of poor defending. The second was a penalty.

But still, without only three starters, Ecuador failed against Haiti, and there was nothing against Canada either.

Canada's defence seemed to dominate Ecuador. Italy's and Croatia's defenders will be 10 times tougher. But i wish your country well.

But what about Brazil. Loosing to Ecuador? Take Rivaldo out of the mix and they pretty much have nothing left.
 

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Sebastian50 said:
I noticed that Cruz, Delgado, and Kavides were missing right away, but beside them was the rest of the team, what u would see in the world cup?

I know Aguinaga & Cevallo are but what abt the rest?
The rest of the team will come from the guys that were at the gold cup. But I am not that concern about the poor result on this tournament. The team will improve its collective play as the guys get in shape. Plus the addition of the missing players should put them at least to the level they were at the WCQ. Of course that might not be enough to beat the likes of Italy, Croatia and Mexico, but they will put up a good fight.:)
 

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Barlinek said:

But what about Brazil. Loosing to Ecuador? Take Rivaldo out of the mix and they pretty much have nothing left.

Ah, and the real reason for this thread becomes all too transparent. What, you getting bored again? ;) :tongue:


These South American and Americas' tournaments are absolutely meaningless as far as predicting team strength and value. SA teams never have full strength squads. The Copa America is bad and teh Gold Cup is worse.

Ecuador played good football to make the World Cup. Simple as that. The team playing the Gold Cup is not the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ze,

like I said, 'Live in the past, get left behind'.


Bye Bye Brazil, the one man team.
 

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Barlinek your post r making u lokk like an idiot. What the hell was that live in the past crap. Ze was making a comparison that they lost games before & did well, & they can do the same this year.

& on the Rivaldo being thier only player is bullsh*t. He was probably the worst Brazillian on the field most of the WCQ.

Brasil can form 5 teams that would all challenge for the WC.
They lost to Ecuador in the altitude and heat of Quito. Playing is a hard assigment for any team in the world.
 

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Barlinek,

You certainly have it for brazil.

Don't sweat Ecuador's 2-0 defeat to Haiti...On Any given day, any team can lose to another; whatever the sport. I'm glad Haiti won that game. I did not expect it but I was not so surprised. The country (Haiti) may have fallen on hard times recently but it was once a legitimate threat in the CONCACAF. It does have some skillfull players. Maybe this win will boost their confidence. As for Ecuador, they just put together a very successfull qualifying campaign second only to Argentina. I don't think this one loss should mean that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Sebastian50 said:
Barlinek your post r making u lokk like an idiot. What the hell was that live in the past crap. Ze was making a comparison that they lost games before & did well, & they can do the same this year.

& on the Rivaldo being thier only player is bullsh*t. He was probably the worst Brazillian on the field most of the WCQ.

Brasil can form 5 teams that would all challenge for the WC.
They lost to Ecuador in the altitude and heat of Quito. Playing is a hard assigment for any team in the world.

Am i really lokkkkkkkking likkkkkkkkke an idiot?:rolleyes:

Buddy, if you have no idea what i'm talking about, do not ever come in here and speak like a simpletan. The way I see Brazil is this. A 37 year old stricker coming out retirement to save their butt, and Rivaldo doing it when Romario was nowhere to be found. 5 teams? They wish. Sure 5 teams, but to form a serie Z team.

Fine, lets forget this high altitude stuff. Why did they finish 4th, after a prolonged campaign?

Barlinek, what the hell you talking about???? BWAHAAAAA


Get Ze's dic* out of your mouth and learn to speak with people. Did I say anything against you? No.

Like I said. Live in the past, get left behind. Or suck Ze's dic*, and get pissed at the phrase. Makes no difference.
 

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As far as I'm concerned Romario would walk in every national team in the world bar Argentina, Italy and France.

At the same time Brazil could also bring the best striker in the Bundesliga and one of the best in Europe (Elber), a kid named Adriano who has put Seria A on fire since he moved to Fiorentina, a striker named Franca who will soon bang goals with Leverkusen, a certain Jardel (who by the way is considered not good enough for their NT- this speaks volumes on how much talent they have), an incredibly talented kid named Ronaldinho, a rather skillfull player called Denilson, the top scorer of the French league aka Sonny Anderson, a usual starter at Barcelona named Geovanni, one of the best scorers in the German league namely Marcio Amoroso and lets not go into mentioning the players who play still in the Brazilian league like Cleber, Edilson and Luizao. The list goes on and on...

Granted, they had a poor qualifing campaign but this has nothing to do with the quality of their team or the quantity of their talent. Thats undisputable and if you cant recognise it you are just being stubborn and biased.

All in all, your comment that they have Rivaldo and noone else is, like most of the things you say when you dont just insult people, JUNK.
 

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Guys take it easy on the insults. No need for that around here.

Now as far Brazil, Barlinek if you don't think they have players of quality in their team other than Rivaldo. Then I am not sure where is it that you watch your football, if at all. Yes they are not the dominant force they used to be but that's for the most part because today's football it's such a physical and team oriented sport, that individual talent doesn't have the kind of influence it used to have. Brazil, unlike Argentina or France or other teams, has struggled to find a consistent collective play, that is why teams with lesser talent are able break them down or hold them off all too easily. But if Brazil ever gets it's team play going, watch out, IMO they would be right up there with the best of them.
:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
AMOROSO! said:
As far as I'm concerned Romario would walk in every national team in the world bar Argentina, Italy and France.

At the same time Brazil could also bring the best striker in the Bundesliga and one of the best in Europe (Elber), a kid named Adriano who has put Seria A on fire since he moved to Fiorentina, a striker named Franca who will soon bang goals with Leverkusen, a certain Jardel (who by the way is considered not good enough for their NT- this speaks volumes on how much talent they have), an incredibly talented kid named Ronaldinho, a rather skillfull player called Denilson, the top scorer of the French league aka Sonny Anderson, a usual starter at Barcelona named Geovanni, one of the best scorers in the German league namely Marcio Amoroso and lets not go into mentioning the players who play still in the Brazilian league like Cleber, Edilson and Luizao. The list goes on and on...

Granted, they had a poor qualifing campaign but this has nothing to do with the quality of their team or the quantity of their talent. Thats undisputable and if you cant recognise it you are just being stubborn and biased.

All in all, your comment that they have Rivaldo and noone else is, like most of the things you say when you dont just insult people, JUNK.

So let me get this straight. Brazil does not get the results because they are good? They stink in qualifying, but i shouls still consider them to be very good. Yes, Romario can walk into any team, the guy is old enough, he can't do much else.

Basically everyone here tends to go by history not the present facts. Maybe I should also wait for Uruguay? Because hey, they were great, they have WC trophies to prove it.:rolleyes: :confused:

Like I said Sebastian 50, 'Live in the past (i.e. Romario, or 1994), get left behind.


Oh wait, is Denmark the favourite to win Euro 2004. They must be . They have players playing abroad, and they won Euro 1992.:rolleyes:

Bunch of idiots.
 

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You said that they have "nothing apart from Rivaldo". Thats not true and I just mentioned several players "apart from Rivaldo". Do you call these guys "nothing"?

A team is not made just from individuals, they should have team spirit, fighting attitude and all these nice things countries like Slovenia and Ecuador have and make the WC. Brazil didnt have this in that Qs campaign. HOWEVER, if they get this to some extened (like they did in the past) their individual talent is enough for them to win the WC. If they play with a bit of team spirit, they can anihilate any team, now whether this happens at the WC or not, only time will tell. But they are not to be taken lightly cause their enormous amount of talent makes them a considerable force even when they are not at their best.

Question their TEAM not their individuals. But then again, you are biased so I cant really expect you to concede any points, right?
 

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Ecuador only play when they want to. Example Copa America. When it comes to the crunch at the world cup, they wont have the home advantage but they will have the team unity with a few star player to lead the team.

But guys its not worth arguing with someone who is being so stubborn.

We will just have to wait till the world cup.
 

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Barlinek only repeats "live in the past, get left behind" over and over again, and feels witty. His arguments mostly end there, apparently - the only other things he says are that "Brazil is nothing but Rivaldo" (??) and that Romario is old.

The first statement is so thin it agonizes - have you ever heard of Roberto Carlos, Emerson, Juninho, Amoroso, Serginho, Cafu, Lucio? - and the second statement is meaningless. Baresi was a fuoriclasse and played for a long time. Matthaus was superb and played almost till he was 40. Romario is a fuoriclasse and his talent still places him above most younger players. I know you'll say "he can't run" or some such well-known criticism.

Well, many Brazilians share your feelings, and Romario may actually not even make the WC. We'll still have a powerful, world-class attacking force, even without this fuoriclasse. That's the power of Brazilian soccer: we have not only talent, but DEPTH.

Of course, then you'll resort to the bad campaign in the qualifiers. Well, Argentina had to do the playoffs against Australia in 1993 - but they qualified and played a very good WC, falling more due to Maradona's second doping ban, which offset the team (who were favorites for that WC, even after going through the playoffs). Brazil didn't have to do the playoffs, and in reality weren't even the last-placed qualified team. But people are so used to seeing Brazil on top, our third place (the WORST Brazilian WCQ campaign in HISTORY ended in a THIRD place!) was a worldwide source of sneers and mockery.

Mockery which is well-deserved, as the campaign truly was awful. But all teams start with zero points at the WC, and Brazil will be there, and we wil be favorites as always. Barlinek, your poorly-hidden envy towards Brazil is almost amusing. You can now say "live in the past, get left behind" over and over, and feel very clever. :) You can repeat all criticisms towards Brazilian players you've ever read, and feel like a shrewd critic. But you're only sad, and probably whishes your team would be as respected as Brazil.

Don't go away, though; the point of this post is to ask you to at least try to freshen up those anti-Brazil arguments. They make for good discussions, but the ones you've been using are past their shelf life. ;)
 
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