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Discussion Starter #1
I have been watching Ranier's Juve ever since he took over. Bottom line is: He is not a bad coach - but he isn't a great one either....He doesn't strike me as the type of coach who can actually get us to win things - but I worry that he will be just good enough to keep extending his stay.

However, after the game against Sampdoria I was infuriated. Its not the 1st team selection that bugged me - it was his subs or lack thereof.

When your team is playing a game every 3 days and you want to rotate the squad particularly if the 1st team players you choose are not spring chickens! - it is criminal not to use up all of your substitutions particularly when the team wasn't playing particularly well.

In the match against Samp, you know that the team he fielded is most likely to be the same team he uses against BATE. Camoranesi was clearly not match fit and Del Piero should have been taken off much earlier in the second half (despite having a very good 1st half).

He made 2 subs - Salihamidzic for Camoranesi and Iaquinta for Del Piero.

If it were me, I would have put on Iaquinta for Del Piero and then Giovinco for Camoranesi and replaced Molinaro with De Ceglie - then switch the formation to 4-3-3 with Giovinco on the left, Amauri in the center and Iaquinta on the right while having Nedved play a little deeper.

We cannot be satisfied with draws away to Sampdoria if our objective is to win the title. Its difficult for the team to have self believe when the manager is so paranoid to lose!

The fact that Ranieri wanted to sign Stankovic in the summer is a scary thought - he may have wanted to exchange Giovinco for that guy - that would have been a huge joke!
 

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a7bal. complete a777777bal.
 

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In the match against Samp, you know that the team he fielded is most likely to be the same team he uses against BATE. Camoranesi was clearly not match fit and Del Piero should have been taken off much earlier in the second half (despite having a very good 1st half).

He made 2 subs - Salihamidzic for Camoranesi and Iaquinta for Del Piero.
Maybe you mean something different than what you write, but Camo started the match and Brazzo didn't play.

As for Bate..... one can at least hope that this very disappointing performance means he'll make a few changes, with Giovinco being present the most important one.

If it were me, I would have put on Iaquinta for Del Piero and then Giovinco for Camoranesi and replaced Molinaro with De Ceglie - then switch the formation to 4-3-3 with Giovinco on the left, Amauri in the center and Iaquinta on the right while having Nedved play a little deeper.
This is not a bad idea however. Not least because this was how Nedved played anyway (drifting all over, hardly ever going to the touchline), and Camo was absolutely horrible in the second half - along with DP. Nedved was not quite as bad, as at least he didn't give the ball away all the time. Of course he didn't try to do much with it either, but in your formation perhaps he wouldn't need to as much.

We cannot be satisfied with draws away to Sampdoria if our objective is to win the title.
Samp away is a tricky match in any case, and the draw in itself isn't bad. Its the absence of ambition to win, that is a problem.... and you will have many frustrations if you harbour the idea that we have a team capable of winning the league. Or anything else for that matter.

As for Ranieri.... I've exhausted my quota :doh:.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Apologies, Ranieri only made 1 substitution - Iaquinta for DP. That is absurd! Camoranesi and Molinaro were clearly not up to par and the front 2 were not getting enough service.

With Giovinco on the bench, I cannot believe he was not used in some way especially after he was arguably the man of the match in the catania game.
 

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I agree with bono and I also think its too early for Juve to win the scudetto... as long as this season the team progress and get through a difficult CL draw he would have done well.
 

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He is a solid coach that does the job he was hired for. But last year we've seen too many mistakes from him, to be really satisfied with his perfromance we could have been second with some better tactical decisions. And looks like he is doing the same mistakes this year.

He will do for this season, but after next season when we buy the players needed for the scudetto, we'll need a better coach.
Prandelli or Mancini (seriously underrated at Xtratime) would be good candidates for the job.
 

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I agree with bono and I also think its too early for Juve to win the scudetto... as long as this season the team progress and get through a difficult CL draw he would have done well.
Honest questions to you and Bono:

- Have you seen us play this season?
- If we do realize the goal of CL qualification again (as pretty much all Ranieri's critics here take virtually for granted), do you see that as good enough by default?
- If we get 4th playing the way we do and get through the CL group playing the way we do (being booted out in the knockouts against the first pedigree team we face), do you think that Ranieri, having accomplished his major objectives, should be considered safe for another season?
- Have you seen us play this season?

- particularly for Deano: What is progress for this Juve team? So far, we play worse than last year where we ended up third.
 

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Ranieri isn't good enough by Juve standards but he follows orders and he's easy to manipulate which is something management was looking for when they were finding a replacement for Deshamps.

Deshamps is not the coach of Juventus for one simple reason and one reason only, Juventus brass refused the direction that Deshamps wanted to take the club, specifically the type of players he wanted to bring in. By all accounts if Deshamps was still coaching Juve he would be instilling a much different brand of football and probably more appealing albeit riskier.

There has always been a pattern with Juventus since Agnelli stepped down which is a general ideology that emphasizes physical and defensive football. Regardless of the coaches that have passed through one thing that has always remained the same was the type of football being played which is ultimately: calculated direct football.

In fairness; when you're a club that only spends what it earns and still has title ambitions than this type of stingy football is necessary. This is why I believe Ranieri is just a pawn, a temporary means to a certain end.

Once the new wave of Juve players get their feet firmly in the soil and the fat contracts/veterans move on, I imagine not only does Juve get a better coach but they finally get hat superstar creative player that will really make the difference even though on the whole Juve will remain a defensive/conservative team.
 

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Honest questions to you and Bono:

- Have you seen us play this season?
- If we do realize the goal of CL qualification again (as pretty much all Ranieri's critics here take virtually for granted), do you see that as good enough by default?
- If we get 4th playing the way we do and get through the CL group playing the way we do (being booted out in the knockouts against the first pedigree team we face), do you think that Ranieri, having accomplished his major objectives, should be considered safe for another season?
- Have you seen us play this season?

- particularly for Deano: What is progress for this Juve team? So far, we play worse than last year where we ended up third.
1. No. So i base my opinion on a) last season games i saw and b) the RESULTS!
2. Last season - yes. and a maximum for any coach in your situation. Its an full lack of realistic expectations to have expected anything else but a UCL qualification with ANY coach out there. You were lucky you did not have to fight for real because of Milan's abysmal season (which had nothing to do with you and your team, results).
3. Yes. Again - with this team I think it is unrealistic to expect to run for either Scudetto or UCL (god forbid :D ). Here the club's mercato policy is the real problem (as opposed to last season when it was really impossible since you just came out of B). And I say yes, as Raqnieri has the experience and skills to make you a very good team again. I do not claim he is the next Lippi, but he can win a title or two if given the time, players.
4. No.

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5. Consolidate. Finish top 4, if chance allow 2nd. as the UCL group stages, play a quarter final. This team needs to become solid, needs its glorious DNA back and that cannnot happen over night. Being juve, your ultimate reachable objective is and will be a Scudetto. But you will be fouls to think after one of the biggest calamities of Top Teams footie history (not only in B, but disgraced, stripped, players loss, etc) you can regain your true colours in a season or two. You have a lot to catch up (your past self, Inter) and it takes time. I think your managers are wiser than the fans.
 

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Honest questions to you and Bono:

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In that case I cannot take any of what you say seriously.
which simply proves the point how HONEST your questions were. Since you even repeated the 1st question in an clear mocking attempt before even hearing the answers.

I WAS honest enough to say my opinion is based on last season and on my general, big picture thoughts about a club in a position and time you are in. Of course it is your choice to honestly disregard them, but next time i will probably not bother. That might not be a loss for you either, which of course will be a sad thing to see. Refusal to communicate has always bothered me beyond repair.
 

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Bothered you beyond despair!?!? :D
I dearly hope you're overstating matters.

Anyway, what frankly makes my piss go a bit warmer than it ought is your continuous sanctimonious BS about what we should expect and be happy with from our club and coach. It is one thing that we can agree in three nanoseconds that we cannot win anything with this squad and shouldn't expect to.
However, to talk to me and us.... no lecture us.... about how we have a solid coach who we should allow to consolidate this team... without watching us play... that is plain stupidity.

All that can be consolidated with Ranieri is mediocrity, which isn't the objective, and we will be bored and frustrated out of our skin in the process.

And to expect for us - who beat you in the standings last year and have the third highest wage bill in the league, far ahead of anyone but Roma (and them too) and just a step off the Milan teams - to be content with the most atrocious football ever visited upon Juventus fans in my lifetime... that is rich.

So, in all honesty - your opinion isn't worth a god damn on this subject.
 

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Anyway i didnt say you have progressed, I said if you progress... obviously if you don't you get a new coach, especially as Juve are in the stage of needing to progress.
 

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you fail (glen) to see that my opinion IS based on seeing your team play - last season. you have played only 6 games in A until now - not that much to begin with. As for lecturing: so what is the problem even if I do. I have my ways of thinking about football and espcially certain football clubs, like Milan and Juve. I was never hiding them and see no reason not to share it especially when asked. Its not like i am doing that every week in and out over here. I doubtr anything will change in my opinion even if i see you play. I like to look at those things (my Milan incl.) from a bird eye view, i.e. on a long term plate.

Playing good looking football is indeed something you should demand. Let me remind you though, that you were saying early last season that both ADP and Nedved should be dropped from the starting 11 and i was saying that you need them even not at their best. So unlike you, I think, I pay huge attention to things other than tactics and specific skill sets of a player in a given moment. I feel no ashamed of doing so.
 

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You are dictating what we should expect or be happy about with our club and coach, and blankly say you DONT WATCH OUR GAMES. So frankly, you saying we should be happy with beyond horrible football by a beyond terrible coach, is to say the least, outragelously bizzare.

Not to mention the patronizing and righteously high minded way you are flaunting your extreme ignorance of the sitaution with our team and how they play (you dont see the games AT ALL, just repeating for effect so it can really frigging get through to you), is to put it mildly, quite insulting.

But OFCOURSE, saying there is not anything more to say to you who takes a stance on something you dont know anything about (read: you are IGNORANT), is the unfortunate part of this all. So sorry it bothers you so that no one would communicate with you. But you happen to be probably the only mofo in the world to have said this: And I say yes, as Raqnieri has the experience and skills to make you a very good team again.

While admitting you dont watch his absolutely pathetic and retarded coaching. So ****ing hilarious if it wasnt so bizzare.


P.S Even if you base it on last season, but still think Ranieri is the right coach to take us ahead, then you way worse then ignorant, but you actually saw it with your own eyes, but is actually ****ing clueless to judge things for what they are.
 

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I have not watched your 1st 6 games in Serie A and that disqualifies me of an opinion about Ranieri as a coach and about your club's potential to succeed this season? Get off that high horse will ya! I know Ranieri as a coach pretty well for years and years now; I know your team well from last season and, Amauri excluding (whom i also know well form his Palermo years), its not like you bought 6 new super stars that can turn a team around in no time at all. Your game is still dependent (having in mind the kid is not played regularly) on the players I know so well - from Buffon and Chielini to ADP, Camo, Nedved and indeed Momo from last season. I dont think any of the new guys, be it Melberg, Marcisio, de Cigile or Pouslen are of the caliber to turn a team around, as a said. Excuse my ignorance.
And bottom line - Glen asked me 4/5 questions. I answered them honestly and i get lynched for it. sometimes you are indeed beyond repair.
 
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