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Discussion Starter #1
I dont know who to blame, be it the strikers, or just bad luck, but we just simply do not score enough. How many chances did we create today and v Holland? and we got 1 measly goal out of all of them and from a defender. I mean we have the top scorer of Bundesliga and Serie A on the pitch today and they missed many chances and shots, just simply poor.
 

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yeah was disappointing we should have done better.
Toni only scored 2 at the world cup and he was top score in serie A that year!!!
He does'nt do well in tournments
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think we rely a little bit too much on crosses and we are good in the air, but its hard to score hearders... Cassano should start and bring more creation to the game that way we may get more easy one on ones, rather than difficult heading chances.
 

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I don't think 2 games are enough to make a trend out of it. Statistically speaken: it's just variance. But I think the whole game was too predictable. There were just long balls or high crosses to Toni. One shouldn't underrate the impact of chance on football. There should have been more low crosses who are easily deflected into goal and shots from outside the box who can be defelected into goal (Lampard made a career out of those), too, or bounce back for a tap-in.
 

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made a big change wen cassano came on,add another dimension to our game b4 that i felt we were throwing to manying crosses in the box and hoping toni will get on the end of them.

Would perfer Cassano to start and bring DP on as sub as he tires easily.
 

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I think it's due to Zambrotta slowing down and Pirlo out of form. We also don't have very dynamic wing forwards and they are unsupported by an AMC.

But besides tactics, we aren't getting very brilliant individual performances :rolleyes:
 

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Toni is in horrible form.

Pirlo is in poor form.

We lack a style - game plan seems to be just pass it to Pirlo. In turn there are way too many long balls being launched. We have the talent to play the ball to feet but we are not doing this.

a) Cassano needs to start
b) Aquilani needs to start
c) Pirlo and Toni need to pull their fingers out
 

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We are becoming waaaay too one-dimensional in the attack.

First half was too much wing play. We were basically looking for Toni or bust. And f*ck it worked on at least 3 occasions...see 1) Wrong offside goal...2) Amazing save by Lobont..3) Narrowly wide of the far post.

You can't say it's a faulty strategy because the chances were there...just because you don't score it doesn't mean the attack is not working...it just means the luck may not all be there.

What I cannot stand for however is how we insisted on this style of attack even in the second half when Toni was clearly tiring and Romanian were getting more and more savvy and boxing Toni out. We need more central attacks. We're going to the wings too much.

Unfortunately, I do not think we have the pace to get in behind the centre defense by just attacking them head on...or even trying to slice them open with critical passes. For that we would need much speedier forwards to be the receivers of such attacking movements.

On another note....4-3-3 must be thrown out the door. I'm not fond of it...at all....anymore....I used to be and still am in some respects....but not with this team.

I think we need to go back to more of a 4-4-2....and do the following....

1) Play the ball to Toni's feet rather to his head. ..(which is what we are always doing in the 4-3-3

- Donadoni is forgetting that Toni is just as crafty with his feet (passing, scoring, beating a player) then he is with the head.

2) 4 pure midfielders with Cassano and Toni as the 2 up top.

- let Cassano play off of Toni...Toni can lay off many balls after drawing the defenders toward him.

Same goes for Cassano...he has the skill to not only draw defenders to him...beat a man...or even shoot on goal...which he seems reluctant to do for whatever reason. Cassano has to become...Cassano the goal-scorer rather than Cassano the provider.

3) Build through the midfield...too many long balls for my liking. Never a good strategy for gaining momentum. Good for quick strikes...not for controlling the game.
 

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It is true. We don't ever put 4 or 5 past anyone. The last match we ran rampant was Ukraine, and Toni was served up a tap in and a nod in.

We may not have Quaresma or Robben, but we do have dynamic offensive players, and our most dynamic forward has been a supersub in limited minutes and our most dynamic central midfielder has yet to kick a ball in anger.

We just don't have an offensive identity. And I don't need to tell you whom I blame for that mess.
 

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It is true. We don't ever put 4 or 5 past anyone. The last match we ran rampant was Ukraine, and Toni was served up a tap in and a nod in.

We may not have Quaresma or Robben, but we do have dynamic offensive players, and our most dynamic forward has been a supersub in limited minutes and our most dynamic central midfielder has yet to kick a ball in anger.

We just don't have an offensive identity. And I don't need to tell you whom I blame for that mess.
This is Italy...hello....are you being ironic or something?

When has Italy ever dominated an opponent by scoring gobs of goals?

Italian mentality will never change....we are not Germany or Portugal or Holland...we're still and always will be a team satisfied with doing the minimum amount of work offensively to achieve the result.
 

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I wasn't questioning, I was stating the obvious. You'll never see us do what Van Basten did today up 1, with those changes, etc.

I know what we've been, and what we are.

There is one thing to score early, sit on a lead and try to hit on the break like Italia in history, it's another to push forward and search for goals and continue assaulting the opponent. Lippi did this and while we played compact, we moved the ball and attacked from every position.
 

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very poor. Very one dimensional looking for Toni at every opportunity (almost english like) playing the big stiker and bombing it to him. Its not the Italian way.
 

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We are creating nothing through the middle. Sure Pirlo form doesn't help but we need something from midfield and not just the full backs running up and putting crosses in.

maybe Cassano should play in the hole behind the forwards.
 

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We are creating nothing through the middle. Sure Pirlo form doesn't help but we need something from midfield and not just the full backs running up and putting crosses in.

maybe Cassano should play in the hole behind the forwards.
Exactly. I just mentioned the same in the Romania-match-thread. DP and Cassano played to far from goal from my liking.

But it has something to do with mentality too. At the WC I think 10 players came on the scoresheet. Not only the strikers.

When I was watching Holland-France I found it so ironic that Holland scored at almost every attempt. I have never seen a Holland team that is so effective. And rarely seen a an Italy-team being producing so little in effeciency, being in front of goal or at the back.
 

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We are becoming waaaay too one-dimensional in the attack.

First half was too much wing play. We were basically looking for Toni or bust. And f*ck it worked on at least 3 occasions...see 1) Wrong offside goal...2) Amazing save by Lobont..3) Narrowly wide of the far post.

You can't say it's a faulty strategy because the chances were there...just because you don't score it doesn't mean the attack is not working...it just means the luck may not all be there.

What I cannot stand for however is how we insisted on this style of attack even in the second half when Toni was clearly tiring and Romanian were getting more and more savvy and boxing Toni out. We need more central attacks. We're going to the wings too much.

Unfortunately, I do not think we have the pace to get in behind the centre defense by just attacking them head on...or even trying to slice them open with critical passes. For that we would need much speedier forwards to be the receivers of such attacking movements.

On another note....4-3-3 must be thrown out the door. I'm not fond of it...at all....anymore....I used to be and still am in some respects....but not with this team.

I think we need to go back to more of a 4-4-2....and do the following....

1) Play the ball to Toni's feet rather to his head. ..(which is what we are always doing in the 4-3-3

- Donadoni is forgetting that Toni is just as crafty with his feet (passing, scoring, beating a player) then he is with the head.

2) 4 pure midfielders with Cassano and Toni as the 2 up top.

- let Cassano play off of Toni...Toni can lay off many balls after drawing the defenders toward him.

Same goes for Cassano...he has the skill to not only draw defenders to him...beat a man...or even shoot on goal...which he seems reluctant to do for whatever reason. Cassano has to become...Cassano the goal-scorer rather than Cassano the provider.

3) Build through the midfield...too many long balls for my liking. Never a good strategy for gaining momentum. Good for quick strikes...not for controlling the game.

I agree something needs to change.
 

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very poor. Very one dimensional looking for Toni at every opportunity (almost english like) playing the big stiker and bombing it to him. Its not the Italian way.

That's why I said Luca Toni has the "Peter Crouch" effect on the
team in general.

Firstly for me Luca Toni has always been just a big oaf, from his
Brescia days, improved in Palermo and became a good finisher there
and polished up in Fiorentina.

The problem though is still there, he isn’t that good with the ball at
his feet, outside the box or around it. He's a big guy, but he'd rather
dive as soon as he is touched, rather than shield the ball. His major
asset is his height, and we're trying to utilize that, but its making us
one dimensional in attack.

Playing the lone striker role is an art form, and if the formation is set up
with one striker, then he is the KEYMAN in the team. You'll need him
to sacrifice himself, run after everything, hold the long balls up and bring
the midfielders into the play.

For example of a good lone striker, see footage of RVN, shielding the
ball from Gallas AND Thuram of all people. That’s why Holland can
counter so effectively, hoof it up to RVN, he holds it up, releases Sneijder
and Van Der Vaart to play the killer pass for whoever is in the danger zone.

We need Toni to start doing that, or we might as well forget it, we wont
beat France if he continues playing the same way. :rollani:
 

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Removing Toni would't make us the second Holland or Portugal.

Play with what we got - including Toni - and hope Cassano, Pirlo, etc. step it up - making our game less one-dimensional.
 

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Removing Toni would't make us the second Holland or Portugal.

Play with what we got - including Toni - and hope Cassano, Pirlo, etc. step it up - making our game less one-dimensional.

That's why I'm frustrated with Donadoni, not Luca Toni.

We came to the tournament with one plan, to play Luca Toni every
game, we've boxed ourselves into a corner now.

We don’t have an alternative. :yuck:

I’ll say it right now, he will flop badly against France like he did in
the WC final, the only action you’ll be seeing from him, is his tantrums
after yet another dive. :rollani:
 
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