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Israel 1-0 Moldova HT
Greece 3-2 Latvia 62'



After we scored, we went back to our San Marino strategy of giving the opponent the ball and hope they don't score. If this continues, we definitely won't keep the lead...
 

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I really hope the IFA fires Kashtan on Thursday.

Watching Moldova dictate the pace and dominate possession in the past 20 minutes is just sickening.

Aside: How did we only score one goal against Latvia? They were playing 10 men back, and gave up 2 goals in under 20 minutes to greece.
 

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5-2 to greece on latvia....3-0 for us so far, barda scored 2 and ben dayan scored one as well. Roberto Colautti is now coming in, and ben sahar already came out for shecter.


we need greece to lose to luxembourg and for us to beat the swiss in switzerland...long story short we're not going to be in south africa, and our NT is a joke based on the game I'm watching here. So yea, its 3-0 but we're lowering our football level to their pace. I'm just watching to see how colautti plays. Benayoun really not shining in any way..
 

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by the way, tamir cohen isn't at his best, but i just like the hear this guy has. even on an off day he just wants to help out and fight for every ball...hope he progresses in the premiership
 

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Good game, now that the pressure is off, maybe we could beat swiss and secure 3rd place.


we should have qualified from this group, oh well.
 

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3-1 it ends....the nt played like children, at the same pace as well.

Let me tell you something, kashtan is not a good coach, and i change my original statement about letting this guy stay because he's just a bad coach (so it seems). However, don't think for a second that our players aren't to blame. Our players are HORRIBLE! and thats what it comes down to, and in the end we can take all out good performances in the best and say that we had the skill to get through and on a good day we can beat the best of NTs (and we've seen it with our very own eyes) yet in the end of the day how often can we count the occassions where our NT was consitent and played a good match against every NT (weak or strong)...maybe a handful of times and not more. So maybe we just don't have the skill to play in the world cup, because even if we have players in england, germany, spain, and belgium they just can't play liek they do at their club (thank you yossi for proving this to me...) So lets not change just the manager lets change everything including the players...lets not stop there, lets change our youth system, lets change our discipine, our players working habits.

I mean we want to qualify to a world cup...that doesn't just happen! Turkey decided that they wanted to build a strong football culture...so what did they do? They brought german trainers and german system to their country and it worked. Thats what we need...we don't just need to fire a manager...that doesn't solve anything when the core of the team (the players) just isn't good enough. We need an entire revolution in our football.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Hello from New York........

Well....most who responded to this thread covered what i had to say.

Shows over.
See you in 2012
 

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Is this last game in Luxembourg or do the Greeks have them at home? Not that it matters that much probably. Well, Luxembourg won in Switzerland and grabbed a few points, so they have had a decent campaign for their standards, a miracle is never impossible. On the other hand, if in a relatively easy group one has to count on Luxembourg of all teams to do you a favor to have a slight chance, then it basically means you failed yourself. Talent enough, bring in some coach that can do the trick and then I do think Euro 2012 is a realistic goal. Maybe an experienced foreign coach just like Israel came close to qualify for Euro2000 with some foreign experience brought in?



PS good luck Luxembourg, please do "a Switzerland" or "a Czech Republic" (remember qualifiers for Euro 1996 : Luxembourg-Czech Rep 1-0 with a last minute goal of Guy Hellers. The man who now coaches them. Impossible is nothing, although it feels odd to rely on Luxembourg getting a win :()
 

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ירוק OLE!;7390835 said:
Our players are HORRIBLE! and thats what it comes down to, and in the end we can take all out good performances in the best and say that we had the skill to get through and on a good day we can beat the best of NTs (and we've seen it with our very own eyes) yet in the end of the day how often can we count the occassions where our NT was consitent and played a good match against every NT (weak or strong)...maybe a handful of times and not more. So maybe we just don't have the skill to play in the world cup, because even if we have players in england, germany, spain, and belgium they just can't play liek they do at their club (thank you yossi for proving this to me...)
I have to disagree.
Perfect example is England under Steve Mclown. They were horrible and missed the Euro 2008. Under Capello, with the SAME EXACT PLAYERS, they are eating up the competition (Ukraine aside, but they already qualified). Reason is tactics and coaching! Mclown was so dam conservative and boring, and it showed on the pitch. Capello comes in, tweaks some settings and bingo! England, arguably has been the best team in qualifying so far.

And, in regards to Yossi, he was brilliant playing under Grant, especially in the WCQ for 2006. Kashtan comes in and changes everything and Yossi seems to just fit into place in his system, with no real role. At Liverpool, hes a playmaker and players look to play him the ball frequently.
Kashtan has no such tactics for our star player. His tactics in general are retarded. He's a small time coach with no ambition. Luzon is to blame for all of this. Our players are not horrible. They are told to follow certain tactics and what we see on the pitch is them doing so. Its not always the coach, but in this case, their is no argument for the contrary.
 

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Yes well its a bunch of what if's, so I hope we give a good showing against switzerland, I'm praying we'll be able to hire a good coach for 2012. The show is over as Kappa said.
 

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Even if the Greek results would remain as they are, the nr 2 spot was still in Israel´s hands if only the Latvian encounters didn´t result in a 1 out of 6. Remember away in Riga, that shot against the bar just before they equalise, things could have been so different ... At home, losing against Latvia is unexcusable and this has been the key game. The gap with the play off spot is bridgeable in 1 game, this means had the home game vs Latvia been won, Israel were in pole position now for the play-off spot. Kashtan is to blame for that loss with the tactics displayed then, we can safely say that Latvia fécked things up totally (or better: the team messed things up themselves against Latvia ?). Fact is: it´s forgiveable to not win against the Swiss and the Greeks as those are tricky encounters, but Latvia was the game that changed it all and against such opponent (with all due respect ...) it´s not excusable to drop 5 points.


PS to the moderators: the 4 letter word starting with an F ... some people are using it uncensored and mine is censored even when used in a non-sexual context. I demand equal rights and demand my f... :mad: :scream:
 

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I have to disagree.
Perfect example is England under Steve Mclown. They were horrible and missed the Euro 2008. Under Capello, with the SAME EXACT PLAYERS, they are eating up the competition (Ukraine aside, but they already qualified). Reason is tactics and coaching! Mclown was so dam conservative and boring, and it showed on the pitch. Capello comes in, tweaks some settings and bingo! England, arguably has been the best team in qualifying so far.

And, in regards to Yossi, he was brilliant playing under Grant, especially in the WCQ for 2006. Kashtan comes in and changes everything and Yossi seems to just fit into place in his system, with no real role. At Liverpool, hes a playmaker and players look to play him the ball frequently.
Kashtan has no such tactics for our star player. His tactics in general are retarded. He's a small time coach with no ambition. Luzon is to blame for all of this. Our players are not horrible. They are told to follow certain tactics and what we see on the pitch is them doing so. Its not always the coach, but in this case, their is no argument for the contrary.
to compare israel's players to englands is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm sorry to upset you, but our players are not at that level.

Let me ask you this. Throughout our NTs history we've seen some amazing squads. The time of the NT which held revivo, berkovic, nimni, and several other classic players, the squad of 93 that beat france with atar, and rosenthal.....yet explain to me why we've never qualified for a tournament? You want to tell me that throughout all these years its always been the fault of the manager? We've had talented players before who were also in liverpool, celtic, and galatasaray...yet we didn't qualify. How could that be? Was it the manager again?

According to you its been the fault of the manager for over 30 years....can that be right? I highly doubt so. In the end our players have no work ethic, and have no motivation to do the NT any good. Its a sad thing to say.

Once again, i don't say its all at fault of the players...Kashtan sucks and thats a fact, but lets not take the responsiblity of the players. Yossi plays well in liverpool (and let me remind you that he isn't THAT consistant with the scousers either), but that is because he has someone to play with. When you can feed the ball to the likes of kuyt, torres, and gerrard it makes your job much easier than if you pass it to a guy like omer golan...

long story short, just as our managers need to change so do the players. I ask for a change from the bottom of our football all the way to the top. Thats the only solution, because there is no doubt there is talent in this country, but that talent needs to sculpted and integrated into hard work, along with psychological and physical strength...that is the only way.
 

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ירוק OLE!;7393142 said:
to compare israel's players to englands is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm sorry to upset you, but our players are not at that level.

While you have many valid points that I dont disagree with, I do however have to say that after reading what I posted, I didnt compare England to Israel in any way.
What I did was simply take a situation where a change of manager completely turned a team around (i.e. England)

Here's another example using South Korea. They have been to many World Cup finals, but they had never gotten out of the first round......until Guus Hiddink was there coach, and they got 4th place in 2002. Hiddink gone, didnt get out of round 1 in 2006.
For them, qualifying is much eaiser in their weak federation, but it just goes to show everyone how much of an impact a coach and their tactics can have on a team.
Same coach, similar result with Australia in 2006. Before that world cup, Australia hadn't qualified since 1974. Hiddink in, they qualify and reach the round of 16 and narrowly lose to Italy on a weak penalty. Is that just a coincidence? Hell no. Hiddink is an incredible coach with great knowledge and a keen eye for tactics. He knows how to play each players and knows their strengths and weaknesses.
Im only using one example here with Hiddink, but its a good example that speaks for itself.
Yeah, we all know Israel's players aren't anywhere near the same standard as top european teams, but that in no way means that they aren't talented enough to make the world cup. Some coaches can get the best out of players, others cant.
You can blame the players, or blame the coach, or even better, blame the IFA. Thats what Im doing because, after all, they hired that clown.
 

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I don't know how the players will be able to live with themselves after this campaign. I'd probably kill myself if I were them. I know it's "just a game", but how can you waste an opportunity like this? Out of all the powerhouse teams, we get Greece? It just proves how big of a joke our football is.

I would say a lot more, but everbody here has pretty much covered every point. :)

As for Euro 2012, instead focusing on the major tournament itself("Israel" and "major tournament" should never be allowed in the same sentence), I think we should focus on something more realistic like the coming attractions in the next campaign. Who would like see Italy at Ramat Gan?
 

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I have to disagree.
Perfect example is England under Steve Mclown. They were horrible and missed the Euro 2008. Under Capello, with the SAME EXACT PLAYERS, they are eating up the competition (Ukraine aside, but they already qualified). Reason is tactics and coaching! Mclown was so dam conservative and boring, and it showed on the pitch. Capello comes in, tweaks some settings and bingo! England, arguably has been the best team in qualifying so far.

And, in regards to Yossi, he was brilliant playing under Grant, especially in the WCQ for 2006. Kashtan comes in and changes everything and Yossi seems to just fit into place in his system, with no real role. At Liverpool, hes a playmaker and players look to play him the ball frequently.
Kashtan has no such tactics for our star player. His tactics in general are retarded. He's a small time coach with no ambition. Luzon is to blame for all of this. Our players are not horrible. They are told to follow certain tactics and what we see on the pitch is them doing so. Its not always the coach, but in this case, their is no argument for the contrary.

I agree. Benayoun`s best period in the NT was with Grant because the latter knew how to use him. We have more talent now than when we had with Grant i believe we would have better results than we had with Kashtan.

But i agree with Lior that some players simply didn`t play at their best, very few fight for the ball like Tamir Cohen for example.
 

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sorry to bring this up again but cannot help thinking that politics screwed Israel too often as well. Let´s be honest, we are breaking down the team as if they do nothing good while they come close to qualifying in the toughest continental zone each time. If it wasn´t for politics and Israel could play without worries in the AFC, qualification for the World Cup was like 90% sure. Don´t tell me Israel is not equally good or better than North Korea or Japan, both qualified for the WC, and especially Bahrain (having a playoff against the equally unimpressive New Zealand). Europe is by far the toughest continent to play in, having giants in your qualifiers like (in recent campaigns) England, Croatia, France, ... In any other continent Israel would freewheel through qualifications. So aren´t we a bit harsh on the boys sometimes? OK, the Latvia result is unexcusable but it´s just one or two games that cost the qualification. In the end Ramat Gan is a place few teams like to play as it´s very tough to get points in Israel, and in less than 20 years UEFA membership Israel is a dark horse that has come close to qualifying already several times. On the world cup we will see some teams appear that Israel would easily beat in any normal day ...
 
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