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What an ugly disaster. The lost generation. Playing a gutless back 4 with sucky fullbacks. Cowardice. No build up, no goals. Just soft, soulless players scattered across the pitch. They are good at posting pictures of their new hairdoos on Insta, little else.
 
Romagnoli and Donnarumma are the only 2 players with an above average performance, a couple of averages in Bonaventura, Criscito and Zaza....everyone else was poor or very poor.

Mancini has a lot of work to do.

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I think this defeat might be a blessing in disguise because Italy is probably going to be relegated to League B by the time the group finishes in November so for the 2020-21 NL they will play teams or a more similar level to them.
 
It started in 2006.

Serie A needs major structural surgery that I have been saying on this forum for years.

There is not the quality of management to keep pace with the major nations, everything from infrastructure to players development is 20th century. This is not a phenomenon limited to football, as the bridge disaster in Genoa tragically demonstrated.
 
I don't know what to say ...

I think Palmieri should be given more of a shot at left back. I think Immobile was almost as bad as Balo the other day, and Zaza wasn't much better. Chiesa didn't play well, but I don't know if his teammates just hate him or they can't see him and that's why they won't give him the ball when he makes runs.

Jorginho is just kind of there. Berardi did some decent things when he came in. I don't know. Mancio has his work cut out for him.
 
I start to think that Mancini is the wrong man for this job. I wish Conte could get the job.

My ratings

Donnarumma 7 - prevented us from conceding more
Lazzari 5 - what is (very) good for SPAL is not good for the Italian NT. It's hardly upsetting news.
Caldara 5.5 - timid on Bruma before the goal, timid in way too many other episodes
Romagnoli 6 - a convincing performance
Criscito 6 - solid in defense, doesn't push much (Emerson 6 - pushed much more than Criscito)
Chiesa 5.5 - this time the golden boy disappointed, in spite of the commitment
Cristante 5 - is not NT material (Belotti nv)
Jorginho 5 - I can't understand whether it's Mancini's fault or he just lacks better teamates at midfield to rely on or he is unfit or he is just bad. Very poor tonight.
Bonaventura 5.5 - not the same players I appreciated when playing for Milan (and Atalanta before)
Immobile 5 - the NT is not for Ciro (Berardi 4 - lost, should have never been called up and should never be called up again)
Zaza 6 - he is not a champion but works hard, probably he needs a team to support him... a coach with a clue
 
In a "footballing country" where the stadia are outdated, and owned by councils and clubs have to fight politicians daily for a right to build their own, how do you expect development of football? Everything is archaic in Italy. Hard to believe it's a developed European country.
 
In a "footballing country" where the stadia are outdated, and owned by councils and clubs have to fight politicians daily for a right to build their own, how do you expect development of football? Everything is archaic in Italy. Hard to believe it's a developed European country.
Don't forget the training facilities, which are often in a delporable state compared to other countries.

Then there is the preference for experience over ability.

It's a total disaster.
 
In a "footballing country" where the stadia are outdated, and owned by councils and clubs have to fight politicians daily for a right to build their own, how do you expect development of football? Everything is archaic in Italy. Hard to believe it's a developed European country.

This is not true.

The main problem is that clubs develop foreign players in their youth teams. Whether this happens because the Italian players are not good enough or just because foreign players are more and there is a better chance to find a craque I can't tell. What is certain is that clubs are developping players for a lot of countries, contrarily to what happened in the past, and the result is that we produce less Italian players. Less Italian players means less chances to find Italian champions, the way it happens with surprises inside Kinder eggs.
 
But it is all about management which is poor. Most of the clubs are backward in how they are managed.

Clubs are all but backward, clubs just don't care for the Italian NT and would not mind playing with all non-Italian players if that meant having a winning team. I can't blame them. It's the FIGC which is weak, while the Lega serie A is strong, so rules which would improve the Italian NT at the expense of the clubs will never be adopted. First of all, it's us, the supporters, who want strong clubs at the expense of the Italian NT anyway. We want our clubs to compete with the European counterparts and that cannot surely happen with the likes of Berardi and Zaza.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
I didnt see the game tonight against Portugal so my emotions are different but people need to calm down for a second. First of all these two games are still friendlies and based on lineups Mancini has tried many different players. Maybe some arent good enough for Italy but these games are there precisely for that. The average age against Poland was 24 years old so you cant blame Mancini bias towards veterans.

I do agree with Toni point though that Mancini might not be right choice. I believe he was hired for two reasons:
1) He wanted the job (Carlo declined, Conte was still contracted with Chelsea and most other options declined (Allegri/Spalletti) or not good enough (ex players with no coach experience).
2) Balotelli factor. Mancini has the past with Balo. Conte would not have brought Balo back and play god knows who in attack.

The euro2020 q draw is in december with games starting in march. So there is still time to test things and find out the best formula.



*When was the last time Verratti wasnt injured during NT break?
 
Results of these games weren't primarily due to lack of talent but Mancini's selections.

He's testing things now, and he should be, but you don't need to test players like Biraghi, Berardi... Or Zaza in the XI. A professional at that level should've already known their level.

And trying a 442 with these players...

Bad start for Mancini.
 
Jorginho 5 - I can't understand whether it's Mancini's fault or he just lacks better teamates at midfield to rely on or he is unfit or he is just bad. Very poor tonight.
He was poor under Conte too and was deservedly left off the Euro squad. He should give two-thirds of his paychecks to Sarri.

Whether this happens because the Italian players are not good enough or just because foreign players are more and there is a better chance to find a craque I can't tell.
I think it's because the foreign players are cheaper. Other teams pretty much do what Udinese does but on a smaller scale.

The homegrown rules should help in the future. They might want to add more rules.
 
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