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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2005.html

There you have it, we're in 18th, only 0.001 points behind the Polish (can it get any closer?) and we should pass them this season (I'm assuming that Partizan will at least grab one point against CSKA). At the very least we can't get worse than 18th till the end of the season (we came into this season at 19th place)..However, more interesting is that we are only 1.4 pts behind the all mighty 15th place (2 CL teams) which Russia currently holds.. So not only is this next tie very important for Partizan fans, but it is also of significant value to other Serbian club followers as well.. Basically, if we knock out CSKA in two year's time you'll be seeing Serbia represented by 2 teams in the CL..

Who would of thought after seeing the majority of our youngsters go to some of these very same countries (Poland, Russia etc.) that our league can actually be rated higher than theirs..
 

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Make that 3 years. Look at Israel and see how little they scored in 00-01. Once that season doesn´t count anymore for the total co-eff points they´ll pull away from us. But a year later they´re screwed cause it´s bye bye to those 8.333 points.
 

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Renfurm said:
Make that 3 years. Look at Israel and see how little they scored in 00-01. Once that season doesn´t count anymore for the total co-eff points they´ll pull away from us. But a year later they´re screwed cause it´s bye bye to those 8.333 points.
Israel should not even be playing in Europe but thats a different story, it would be great to have 2 teams in CL but i wanna know if the 1st place team automatically goes to the CL group stage?
 

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Beating CSKA both times would do wonders for our position but I doubt it will happen.
All countries with 2 teams start with one team in Q3 and one in Q2 afaik. To get an automatic qualifier into the group stage you have to have 3 teams at least.
 

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No, only the champions and second place teams from the first 6 (or 8) countries on the ranking qualify automaticly for the CL. Having 2 spots at #15 means the champion can skip the first two qualifying rounds. Which could actually be a bad thing since round 2 usually means some easy co-eff points against weak opposition.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Renfurm, I stand corrected..You're right about Israel, it's funny that with such a poor rating this year, they might actually move up in the rankings..:D

Which could actually be a bad thing since round 2 usually means some easy co-eff points against weak opposition.
In a way I guess you got a point.. But at the same time shouldn't we set our goals and standards a bit higher?
 

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Ambis no I'm pretty sure we wont.

Thanks for posting that PV. We've talked about this before but the most important thing for us is how many points we get & not how many points we get for S&M. The fact is that if we want to move up that ladder we need RS to start firing as well. If its just us doing well we're just treading water. We have too many teams that compete each year and they bring the average down as they underperform in Europe.

Besides, even if we get two teams in the qualification round of the CL that still doesn't mean anything and doesn't improve our chances of getting IN the CL. Our clubs will still be unseeded in that 3rd Qualification Round (last round) and go up against the runners-up of the English, Spanish, Italian leagues where we bomb out. I'll explain what I mean:

We talked about the Rosenborg example I think. They got to compete in the CL every year because they were seeded in the 3rd Qualification Round where they got drawn against clubs from EE, Belgium, Austria and not the top euro clubs. We need approx. 35 points to be seeded in the 3rd Qualification Round.

At the moment this is how things are looking:

74 Partizan Belgrade Srb 2.485 3.045 6.595 5.485 11.320 28.929

We are the 74th ranked club in Europe.

We've gained 11.32 points this season so far. Next season the 2.485 is wiped.

We have a coefficient of 28.93. We need to get that into the high 30s. Then we will be seeded. We play then the 2nd Qualification Round of CL which is easy to get through as the competition here is quite poor. We then play the unseeded teams in the 3rd Round.

Basically if we can get our coefficient up to 35 we've improved our chances of getting to the CL by about 80%.

Take these statistics from UEFA:

According to last 5 years CL QR3 matches (80 mtches and 80 teams qualified), on average if you are a seeded team in QR3 you will qualify to CL with 78.75% probablility. In 80 matches, 63 seeded teams qualified to CL. If you are unseeded then you will qualify to CL with 22.25% probablility.

Year by Year:

2001: 11 seeded, 5 unseeded teams qualified to CL

2002:13 seeded, 3 unseeded

2003:12 seeded, 4 unseeded

2004:14 seeded, 2 unseeded

2005:13 seeded, 3 unseeded

So in 2004, only two unseeded teams qualified (one being our Partizan beating Newcastle) and the other being Club Brugge.

In 2005, the unseeded teams were CSKA Moscow (G.RAngers), Shakhtar Donetsk (against Club Brugge) & Maccabi Tel-Aviv (PAOK).

And so on, you get the drift. This is probablility and statistics and they don't lie.

So the point is, PFC has to get a coefficient for itself in the high 30s to be seeded in the 3CLQR. We can say then if we win the domestic league we have a 80% chance of playing in the CL.

Not such a dream is it?
 

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Sorry just to explain why 35? This is, on average, the coefficient during the last 5 years of the last seeded team in the QR of the CL. One year it was as high as 40 another year was as low as 33.

Basically it is nearly impossible for Partizan to get to this figure this year. It could happen if we get through another 2 rounds of the UEFA Cup. But if we have a similar successful season as this one next year and if we take the title next year, we'll have an 80% chance of playing CL.

On a side note, Partizan has arguably the best young generation ever coming through. We have a core bunch of players that have solid european experience. I have no doubt that we will play CL again very soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Good job for making things even more easier to understand..It's really simple though, to get seeded you have to advance through a few rounds in Europe and be consistent for a few years.. There's no other way around it..:)

By the way, one more thing.. I don't know if you people knew this, but UEFA determines before the start of the year how much each team is worth from a country.. In our case, every club this year was worth 0.33 (I suspect in the higher ranking leagues each club is worth less since there are more clubs) and then all of points that one team gathers for a league are multiplied by the club's worth (in our case 0.33) and that's the number by which all of our club's coefficients go up by.. Maybe that's a bit confusing, here's to make things a bit simpler.. Partizan's win last night brough our league 0.5 points (2 points earned/4 teams overall)..That number multiplied by 0.33 gives 0.165.. So actually every club's ranking went up by this amount from our country.. At first sight it doesn't look much, but if you have a few clubs gathering a large amount of points then it can help others (and those clubs) a lot..

Unfortunately, this year Partizan is all alone..
 

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The club's own points count for 60% when determining a club coefficient for seeding, while the country points count for 40%. Used to be 50-50, but they changed it. This is better news for Partizan b/c they perform better than SCG clubs in general but not so good news for Sartid for ex. b/c they they get most of their coefficient from the country ranking.
 
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No offence but how can the rest of the liga get the benefit of only one teams result????? this should better Partizan ranking and not OFK Beograd who have nothing to do with this...... Oki maybe i'm a bit jealous :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Actually, the teams which really benefit are the smaller Spanish, Italian, English etc sides. I think someone said this was Middlesborough's debut in Europe, yet they were in the second pot (of 5) when it came to the seedings for the UEFA Cup Groups.. Same goes for Millwall, while they didn't make the group stage, they were seeded in the first round with a coefficient of 20.510..The same Millwall which has been a second division team for ever..
 

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They didn't play a premiership side till the final when they were destroyed. Is it also fair that they get seeded when other sides who play every season, even sometimes champions of their country are unseeded. Not as if it matters, they would get beat by most sides anyway, seeded or unseeded.
 

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No system is going to be perfect. We have to understand that football these days is a huge business. The current systems in place are geared towards increasing revenues for the big clubs. That's why we have all these group stages, seedings etc. to make sure all the big clubs in the Premiership, Serie A, Primera Liga have a better chance of qualifying to the group stages. More games = more money, but first they have to get there! Seedings just make it way easier.
 

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Well seedings do make sense. Why should you have Inter - Valencia in round 1 while at the same time having La Valleta - Neftchi Baku?

Anyways, once you're past the initial stages, where you can say that all the teams are equal, seedings no longer play a part in determining opponnents.
 

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Purgeru, I think the new UEFA Cup group stage format is a godsend for our clubs and the smaller clubs in general. There is no reason why our clubs can't make the group stage every year and get to play more games and gain european experience/points.
 
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