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Discussion Starter #1
I guess we deserve a new tread now. If someone can come up with interesting polls or stuff like that - let's have them, and discuss what we want for next season.


A recap:
From the present squad Pessotto's contract is up, so is Zalayeta's (but it could be extended), Birindelli will leave, and Zebina looks most likely to leave as does Olivera and Blasi. Chimenti has already been 'sold' to Cagliari and Abbiati will leave for Milan after the season. Gladstone has been loaned to Verona, and is unlikely to come back before earning a reputation.

Joining in June: Marchionni, C.Zanetti

That leaves:

Keepers: Buffon, Bonnefoi

Central defenders: Thuram, Cannavaro, Kovac
Wingbacks: Zambrotta, Chiellini, Balzaretti

Defensive midfielders: Emerson, Vieira, C.Zanetti, Giannichedda
Attacking midfielders: Nedved, Mutu, Camoranesi, Marchionni

Strikers: Trezeguet, Del Piero, Zlatan

That's 19 players. We will take a new second keeper, most likely a central defender and a wing back, a cover striker if Zalayeta is not retained and we have to consider a 'big name' both in case of Nedved retiring after the season (which is unlikely but possible) and as a move for the future.

One could mention several loaned out players who could deserve to be mentioned among the candidates for a wing back cover spot and a strikers cover spot, but I think none of them have really made their names enough for that to happen. In one more season the current crop in serieA will be much easier to evaluate.

Remembering that there are players like Miccoli, Kapo, Tudor, Tacchinardi who will be attempted sold alongside the ones already mentioned, that we are not paying fees for Marchionni and Zanetti, and that this looks to be a good year financially, we should have some money to spend.

My dream scenario for the mentioned positions: Antonioli for back up goalie (free transfer), Alves or Reveilliere for the right back. Gallas for central defence (for peanuts to buy him out of the contract) and Riquelme as the man to change Juve into a team that not only wins, but also PLAYS great football. Not going to happen, too good to be true, but it is not at all impossible - had to be said :). We'd have to spend something like 30 million euro minus whatever we sell players for which ought to be a fair bit. There's also the possibility of selling Zlatan for a big fee and finance the whole damn thing that way.

---------------Buffon
Alves------Gallas Cannavaro----Zambrotta
--------------Emerson
----------------------Vieira
---Camo
---------------Riquelme
----------------------Zlatan
---------Trezeguet


----------------Antonioli
Balzaretti----Thuram Kovac----Chiellini
---------------C.Zanetti
-------------------------Nedved
---Marchionni
-----------------Mutu
----------------------Del Piero
-------------X

Additional: Bonnefoi, Giannichedda
 

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Glen i have the utmost respect for you BUT i have to disagree on Riquelme m8. Moreover, i am not the only one disagreeing here, Capello does also. How? When Real Madrid lost in the Intercontinental Cup Final against Boca Juniors in 2000 by 2-1, Raul said after the match that Riquelme is the best player he had seen for a decade. When a reporter asked Capello what he thought about Riquelme, who at that time was considered the HOTTEST PROPERTY of Argentinean football, Don Fabio answered with TWO words:"Too slow". When the reporter, obviously puzzled, asked for an explanation, Don Fabio argued that: "in today's game having a team that attacks fast is the most important asset. Riquelme has talent but he is way too slow in bringing his team forward". Therefore i do not think that Don Fabio will go after a player that he has dubbed as "slow".
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oh - you are not disagreeing with me per se. Not in what you say here at least. I have no doubt that Capello won't move for Riquelme. My post is part run down and part 'dream'. One thing however, while agreeing that Riquelme is surely no bullet, is that Capello's argument would be a ridiculous one looking at the pace with which we attack. If we're not talking about our counters that are at times coming with blistering pace, we are very much pedestrian.

'My' team - you could make that with Mutu behind the forwards too, or through buying Ballack... or if Barca land Henry one could make a move for Deco.... there are severall options, none of them exactly alike, but all means that we try to play football in a different way. Only Riquelme to me is the one who would improve us the most and fit both the Italian league and our CL aspirations the best, because in going for him - it would make no sense whatsoever not to try and pass the ball among ourselves rather than punt it.

Actually - we can hope to draw Villareal in the next CL round (knock on wood), and if we did, I'd hope we'd scrape by with Riquelme humiliating us so much, that Capello and Moggi had to go for thim :D .

Thanks btw :).
 

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that is absolutely correct reignman...part of the reason why riquelme didn't work out at barca was because he was only a part in the team (it would be like him playing in xavi's position now), but at villa (and the current argentina squad) the team is built around him, they play for him and through him...he has a hand in every action...i'm not taking anything away from the player, but i do agree with capello in that he is a shade on the slow side...why get riquleme when an aimar or an explosive winger such as joaquin or vicente could be had?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
mcqueen said:
why get riquleme when an aimar or an explosive winger such as joaquin or vicente could be had?
Because he would fit in like a charm with the rest of our players?

Emerson: Was never a playmaker. Excelled with Roma when Totti did the distribution; at Bayer Leverkusen when Ballack or Bastürk had control, and obviously with Brazil he doesn't think about that stuff.
Vieira: At Arsenal in latter years (until this season) everything has been running through Pires coming in from the left when Arsenal were in posession. With the NT there's always been Zizou in the spot I put Riquelme in, and Vieira isn't the DM in either side: With Arsenal it's been Petit and Gilberto, with France it has been Petit or Makelele.
Camoranesi played on the right with Mutu behind a sole (Cammarata) at Verona before we bought him, and in the NT he's used to Totti in the middle.

I'm simply arguing that everyone in midfield would get to play the way they do it best in a 4-3-1-2 system. Same right now if we want Nedved to start - as he's a non factor on the wing - only he's not a playmaker either.

Then there's the wing suggestion.... yes, I agree a genuine left wing could be great. I just think that what this team REALLY needs is someone with ideas who can make us play football. Camo is a great winger, but he's individually decisive and not one to make his temmates much better.

Finally - we are not Barca. Here Riquelme would automatically become the focal point. Just like Totti was the focal point in Capello's Roma.
 

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Birindelli------------------> Cuneaz
Pessotto-----------------> Barzagli
Nedved------------------> Gasbarroni
Criscito------------------> Zammuto
Blasi---------------------> Barone
Bonnefoi-----------------> Scarzanella
Giannichedda-------------> C. Zanetti
Olivera-------------------> Marchionni
Zalayeta-----------------> Pellissier
Zebina-------------------> Oddo
Abbiati-------------------> Antonioli

I like Alves too for RB, Friedrich also. A top class LM could replace Nedved instead of Gasbarroni.
 

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va' fancul
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Riquelme? What the hell? A great player maybe but not what Juve need especially when his prime is about to reach its anti-climax.


I like the idea that Juve should make efforts to playing more posession/attacking oriented football, but under this coach it just ain't gonna happen.

Capello uses the power of simplicity to win, he always has and always will. Any subtle changes in theory or application for him is like trying to re-invent the wheel.

When Juve keeps winning like they have: getting results while preserving resources by using minimul exertion; any ideas that Juve are prepaired to throw 30 million dollars around is frankly absurd.

Remember the Agnelli family no longer runs this club i.e. FIAT isn't writing any checks or singing grants for this club, anything Juve spends will depend on the assets they chose to relinquish.

With all that said Juve don't "need" anybody except for some reserve defenders here and there and another Nedved prospect for the left wing (even that isn't a dire issue when considering thet Nedved still has some gas in the tank).

Finally, any hints that Zlatan is going to leave for some treasure chest amount is reckless management and is not what Juve is about. Remember Zidane went away because Real Madrid were insane enough to meet the demand price but more importantly Juve were willing ot part with a player who was not "essential" to the teams success, oppositely Zlatan "is" essential to Juve offense.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
canzano55 said:
When Juve keeps winning like they have: getting results while preserving resources by using minimul exertion; any ideas that Juve are prepaired to throw 30 million dollars around is frankly absurd.
We presently pay more money on salaries than any other Italian club, and since Capello arrived we've spent as much as any Milan team on transfers. In terms of spending just look back to the summer leading up to last season - Emerson and Zlatan for 40 million euro.

canzano55 said:
Remember the Agnelli family no longer runs this club i.e. FIAT isn't writing any checks or singing grants for this club, anything Juve spends will depend on the assets they chose to relinquish.

The Agnelli's haven't signed any checks for 12 years.... doesn't mean we haven't been buying players. As I said - our finances are good, and lots of players will leave with the majority of our incoming players being free agents. There's room to spend.

canzano55 said:
With all that said Juve don't "need" anybody except for some reserve defenders here and there and another Nedved prospect for the left wing (even that isn't a dire issue when considering thet Nedved still has some gas in the tank).
A Nedved replacement... exactly. We bought him for app. 30 million euro and his impact was massive. It takes a real investment to find someone who can replace him.

canzano55 said:
Finally, any hints that Zlatan is going to leave for some treasure chest amount is reckless management and is not what Juve is about. Remember Zidane went away because Real Madrid were insane enough to meet the demand price but more importantly Juve were willing ot part with a player who was not "essential" to the teams success, oppositely Zlatan "is" essential to Juve offense.
Zlatan is essential to nothing if he doesn't improve his efficiency as a player. Currently he should be on the bench, and his fantastic media image - where most everyone who aren't Juve fans delight in his most of the time purposeless fancy-work - means that his value will be severely bloated and unconnected to his actual football value. Liek Beckham only not as grotesque. We could most likely buy Tevez three times from any Zlatan sale should Real or Chelsea come in for him and we'd be a better team for it. Either way - Zidane WAS essential, only he was replaced by someone able to carry the same weight... and Thuram... and Buffon.

Finally - as you can see from the first part of my first post, I fully agree that we're unlikely to go and change. That will only happen if the Triad and Capello is actually dismantled this Summer. Something I don't think will happen, but ultimately it is a destinct possility.
 

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Glen said:
Zlatan is essential to nothing if he doesn't improve his efficiency as a player. Currently he should be on the bench, and his fantastic media image - where most everyone who aren't Juve fans delight in his most of the time purposeless fancy-work - means that his value will be severely bloated and unconnected to his actual football value. Liek Beckham only not as grotesque. We could most likely buy Tevez three times from any Zlatan sale should Real or Chelsea come in for him and we'd be a better team for it. Either way - Zidane WAS essential, only he was replaced by someone able to carry the same weight... and Thuram... and Buffon.
So basically you are willing to accept that Dribble Boy is Not an Impact Player? :eekani:
 

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Glen said:
Well... I'm not his biggest fan either, but he's a definite upgrade on both Blasi and Gianni as Emerson's sub. He's very effective as a destroyer I think.
I hope he gets to play in one of the games in the San Siro before he leaves. The Curva does not rule out throwing flares at their current players.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Haroon said:
So basically you are willing to accept that Dribble Boy is Not an Impact Player? :eekani:

I refuse your categorical ways of putting players down ;).
Zlatan can be an impact player against anyone - on any given day - anywhere, because he is absurdly gifted.

But - I agree that over a season, for what he has shown so far in his carrier, he is not one to bet on on to deliver with consistency. Although one can bank on him always offering some entertainment.

The only reason I'm undecided is that he is still rather young, so he could clear out some of the flaws in his game and become a great.


Al Capone: We are SO not going to move for Ronaldo! We already have a predator and Ronaldo is the anti-thesis to all things Juventus.
 

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Glen said:
I refuse your categorical ways of putting players down ;).
Zlatan can be an impact player against anyone - on any given day - anywhere, because he is absurdly gifted.

But - I agree that over a season, for what he has shown so far in his carrier, he is not one to bet on on to deliver with consistency. Although one can bank on him always offering some entertainment.

The only reason I'm undecided is that he is still rather young, so he could clear out some of the flaws in his game and become a great.
Oh ... so you need a little more time before you know for a fact that he is not an Impact Player. I can live with that. ;) I just misunderstood your post a bit as I thought you used one whole paragraph to suggest that he is not an Impact Player. :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Haroon said:
Oh ... so you need a little more time before you know for a fact that he is not an Impact Player. I can live with that. ;) I just misunderstood your post a bit as I thought you used one whole paragraph to suggest that he is not an Impact Player. :tongue:

You must have me mistaken for someone else. I'm the one STILL going on about Maresca being an impact player AT Juve :D .
 

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Glen said:
We presently pay more money on salaries than any other Italian club, and since Capello arrived we've spent as much as any Milan team on transfers. In terms of spending just look back to the summer leading up to last season - Emerson and Zlatan for 40 million euro..
I don't think it was quite that much, and Zlatan's transfer fee is being paid over 5 years which is significantly more manageable then handing over some ridiculous down-payment.


Glen said:
The Agnelli's haven't signed any checks for 12 years.... doesn't mean we haven't been buying players. ...
You're right, it means you've been buying players who have little or no characteristics similar to Baggio, Vialli and more recently Zidane.

There's nothing wrong with that but I'm inclined to disagree with any notion that Juve is interseted in "Riquelme-type-players" given their recent transfer history: a transfer history post Agnelli era.


Glen said:
A Nedved replacement... exactly. We bought him for app. 30 million euro and his impact was massive. It takes a real investment to find someone who can replace him....
It used to be that Nedved was the clutch player who carried the teams offense which is simply not the case anymore. Juve doesn't need to spend 30 million on a winger any more then they need a new one.

Glen said:
Zlatan is essential to nothing if he doesn't improve his efficiency as a player. Currently he should be on the bench, and his fantastic media image - where most everyone who aren't Juve fans delight in his most of the time purposeless fancy-work - means that his value will be severely bloated and unconnected to his actual football value.....
I didn't say his value was or wasn't bloated, and I agree with you that he may infact be overpriced, but saying he doesn't deliver consistently is insane. Seriously I thinkt he Werder game was doesn't exactly eccentuate his worth, but that game alone can't be use to scope a players value to the team.

The top strikers in Europe in no order: Eto, Toni, Henry, Zlatan.

Glen said:
We could most likely buy Tevez three times from any Zlatan sale should Real or Chelsea come in for him and we'd be a better team for it.
Thats a bold statement seeing that the only European soil Tevez has ever seen was the Olympics. Not nearly every south american player who is touted as "great" can make the impact on Europe let alone calcio. Kaka is the "niche" while guys like Denilson, Saviola, riquelme' (early days) and many others are not worth the buck. At any rate Juve is rarely interested in players that have a risk-factor.

Glen said:
Either way - Zidane WAS essential, .
Well not in my opinion...I dunno you're the Juve fan. I just think that late 90's Juve was a team the revolved around prominent forwards like ADP and Inzaghi, while Zidane was effective in making good plays he wasn't the "pinncle of juves offense" per-say.
 
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