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Now here is a line of people with a bad press these days, some worse than others.

Christopher Columbus (1451-1506)
Ivan the Terrible (1530-1585)
Richelieu (1585-1642)
Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679)
Carl von Linné (1707-1778)
Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)
Lord Castlereagh (1769-1822)
John C. Calhoun (1782-1850)
Richard Wagner (1813-1883)
Francis Galton (1822-1911)
J.B.S. Estrup (1825-1913)
Stephen Foster (1826-1864)
Cecil Rhodes (1853-1902)
D.W. Griffith (1875-1948)
T.S. Eliot (1888-1965)
Charles Lindbergh (1902-1974)
Samuel P. Huntington (1927-2008)
James Watson (1928- )
 

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Perhaps rather compare him with Dollfuss. :)

 

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the parallels between him, Dolferl and Uncle Joe are overwhelming though

all 3 have a proletarian background and ended up as the emperor/führer/greatleader/gröfaz of a nation they don‘t even come from, devastating the whole of europe
napoléon was poor but not proletarian.
unwanted in corsica.
he had to protect the french republique from the surrounding kingdoms.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
In no order apart from Jesus

Jesus Christ
Mohammed
Confucius
Galileo
Martin Luther
Johannes Gutenberg
Karl Marx
Socrates
Constantine the Great
Albert Einstein
Dimi in the lead now with the most plausible list.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Btw, you mean ML the theologian or the human rights activist?
 

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napoléon was poor but not proletarian.
unwanted in corsica.
he had to protect the french republique from the surrounding kingdoms.
with proletarian I meant not rich

Hitler was unwanted in Austria and Stalin unwanted in Georgia

all claimed they had to protect the country they ruled in from the surrounding countries they thought of as threat
 

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with proletarian I meant not rich

Hitler was unwanted in Austria and Stalin unwanted in Georgia

all claimed they had to protect the country they ruled in from the surrounding countries they thought of as threat
in france case it was a real threat for the french republique.
for hitler, it was more a question of revenge of versailles treaty which was a humiliating one.
for staline, i guess the german threat was real.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
how da hell were Mohammed and Marx „great“?
Maybe Marx not so much, but what Mohammed did was pretty remarkable. He surrounded himself with (and dominated) men of outstanding caliber and united for the first time the Arab tribes, being worshiped by his people as few leaders in history have been (if any). All this within his lifetime.

If we're counting the immediate impact, his successors made the Byzantine and Persian Empires their bitches. Fast forward centuries later and his followers are projected to surpass Christianity by 2050, becoming the most venerated human being of all time.

Pretty much everything about him is great once you judge him from the lens of his own time and environment. I admire him more for what he did while he lived tho. Much of what happened after has allot to do with other people's impact.
 

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in france case it was a real threat for the french republique.
for hitler, it was more a question of revenge of versailles treaty which was a humiliating one.
for staline, i guess the german threat was real.
Hitler said the Zionist Bolshevik threat in the east was a real threat, Stalin said the imperialist fascist threat in the west was real threat, Napoléon said the surrounding kingdoms were a real threat. all 3 were made up threats so that they can attack and devastate the whole continent, all on the head of countries they didn‘t even come from and all in a megalomaniac manner that surpasses every emperor who existed before. Bokassa tried to copy them later on but failed early enough.
 

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Maybe Marx not so much, but what Mohammed did was pretty remarkable. He surrounded himself with (and dominated) men of outstanding caliber and united for the first time the Arab tribes, being worshiped by his people as few leaders in history have been (if any). All this within his lifetime.

If we're counting the immediate impact, his successors made the Byzantine and Persian Empires their bitches. Fast forward centuries later and his followers are projected to surpass Christianity by 2050, becoming the most venerated human being of all time.

Pretty much everything about him is great once you judge him from the lens of his own time and environment. I admire him more for what he did while he lived tho. Much of what happened after has allot to do with other people's impact.
if greatest is in the meaning of biggest evil and most violent, I agree with you. but then Marx is just up there, maybe not in his lifetime, but we still feel painfully his impact, and his ideology such as Mo‘s will in 2050, looks like surpassed christianity a long time ago already
 

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Hitler said the Zionist Bolshevik threat in the east was a real threat, Stalin said the imperialist fascist threat in the west was real threat, Napoléon said the surrounding kingdoms were a real threat. all 3 were made up threats so that they can attack and devastate the whole continent, all on the head of countries they didn‘t even come from and all in a megalomaniac manner that surpasses every emperor who existed before. Bokassa tried to copy them later on but failed early enough.
if you want to compare the threats, do it. i stay on my position for the french case, threat was here, foreign armies at our borders with the blessing of the french royalists. no comparaison possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
If you look at what all three left behind, there is no comparison. We can even ignore the death tolls altogether and still Napoleon is the better man in every respect. Hitler was likely a match for him as an orator and nothing else.

Goethe's comment after meeting and having a conversation with Napoleon: "nothing higher and more pleasing could have happened to me in all my life"

https://books.google.ro/books?redir_esc=y&hl=ro&id=_NVaM92tKfcC&q=pleasing#v=snippet&q=pleasing&f=false

Hitler's posthumous fanbase comprises brainless skin-heads while academics have speculated how it would have been better if Napoleon triumphed against the coalition. At any rate, the consensus is that even if he subdued Europe, his death was soon to come anyway because of cancer and mayhem would have followed without a titanic figure taking his place. Basically the opposite of Augustus. Octavian reigned for so long (and well) that scarcely anyone alive and holding an important position remembered what it was like during the Republic. If only Napoleon would have sent a diplomat instead of an army on several occasions, he'd be unanimously regarded as the greatest leader ever.
 
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