Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
International Centre for Sport Studies (CIES) have release a survey in 31 most competitive european leagues and found which club have produce the most players competing in those leagues. CIES considered a "club-trained player" to be someone who had spent at least three seasons with a team between the ages of 15 and 21.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/best-academy-europe-094426548.html

Ajax is 1st, followed by Partizan Beograd, Hajduk Split, Barcelona (surprisingly 4th?), and MTK Budapest.

The top 10 as follow



most of them are from east europe. and also because the news is from yahoo UK, they've found out that the only British club in the top 20 is Man Utd at 17th place.

My concern is where are the Italian clubs placed? are there any in the top 20? which club is it?

what are your thought folks?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
my wild guess is the top Italian academy is Atalanta, they have consistently turning out players
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45,352 Posts
Juventus definitely. My wild guess is that we have many academies producing slightly less players than the ones listed. Infact a thing I surely don't think we lack is the production of young players.
 

·
Laziale, Independent
Joined
·
6,075 Posts
Yeah but such a poll should take into account quality not just quantity!

I mean, 5-6 players of Barcelona could easily outweight all the rest given their success with Barca (multiple league wins, CL-s and success with Spain NT).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,824 Posts
The teams from the smaller leagues obviously have it an easier time on this, especially when they are the big big club in their league. Sweden have no team in this for the same reason as Italy don't, we got way to many teams producing about the same amount on talent.

I found 20 for Milan in serie A. although I counted Foggia in that. We had two more starting in serie A, but now in B this season (Verdi and Romagnoli)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I'm surprised that a Hongarian side shows up at no.5. Hajduk & Partizan maybe are small sides as well, but at least at International level the Croats & Serbs have some continental or even worldwide recognition.
Hongaria's latest international recognition that I know were Puskas / The Magic Magyars
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,824 Posts
I'm surprised that a Hongarian side shows up at no.5. Hajduk & Partizan maybe are small sides as well, but at least at International level the Croats & Serbs have some continental or even worldwide recognition.
Hongaria's latest international recognition that I know were Puskas / The Magic Magyars
But they only need to have a lot of their academy players playing domestically. You might not have heard of any of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45,352 Posts
when I'm bored enough I could make a list of all the players of serie A with their youth teams.
A better job would be adding the players who are right now playing in foreign clubs but I'm not sure I can go that far.

BTW leaving out players who are in serie B can be very misleading as a part of them could become better players than the ones produced by MTK (for example, I don't want to be harsh to the Hungarian club), but even better than players who are right now in serie A. Don't forget in fact that very good players can be loaned out for one or more season to serie B/Lega Pro clubs. We have had plenty of examples.
 

·
XT's Demi-God
Joined
·
8,662 Posts
The teams from the smaller leagues obviously have it an easier time on this, especially when they are the big big club in their league. Sweden have no team in this for the same reason as Italy don't, we got way to many teams producing about the same amount on talent.

I found 20 for Milan in serie A. although I counted Foggia in that. We had two more starting in serie A, but now in B this season (Verdi and Romagnoli)
List me that 20 and I'll see if I can add anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36,665 Posts
Italy lags behind Europe in academy stakes
By Terry Daley in Reuters.com, 29 March 2013

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/03/29/soccer-academies-italy-idINDEE92S00I20130329

Italy's biggest clubs are playing catch-up with the rest of Europe as they look to save money by developing their own young talent but the move is hurting some of the other Serie A outfits who boast successful academies.

Until very recently, the likes of Juventus, Inter Milan and AC Milan would reinforce their squads by bringing in big names ready to compete at the highest level but the difficult economic climate is forcing them to focus their resources in-house.

"The current economic situation combined with new UEFA (financial fair play) regulations has forced Europe's big clubs to invest heavily in youth development," Mauro Bianchessi, AC Milan's head of youth scouting, told Reuters.

According to the CIES (International Centre for Sports Studies) Football Observatory's 2013 Demographic Study, Italy has the lowest percentage of players who spent three years at the club they are at now between the ages of 15 and 21.

The figure for Italy is 7.8 percent, which falls well below the average for the other four top European leagues (England, Spain, Germany and France) of 17.2 percent.

AS Roma's Francesco Totti and Daniele De Rossi are among the rare examples of players who have stayed at the clubs whose academies they came through but there could soon be more if the big clubs continue their drive towards homegrown talent.

This bigger focus by Italy's top clubs on youth development though is, according to Bianchessi, having a negative effect on smaller clubs like Atalanta, who traditionally have had a strong academy and who regularly bring players into their first team.

"I worked at Atalanta for 15 years, and have been at Milan since 2006. Back then there was a different economic situation and different aims for the first teams," Bianchessi said.

"To win the league or Champions League players were needed who were ready, and therefore not young unless they were phenomenal.

"A club like Atalanta, which didn't have these aims, had the opportunity to develop players, put them in the first team and then sell them. And with that money they managed to keep the club going."

Atalanta are based in Bergamo in Lombardy, on the doorstep of Milan and Inter, but nonetheless consistently produce footballers capable of playing in the top division.

They have eight academy products in their first team squad, and according to the CIES study are Italy's number one club for youth development and eighth in the world.

"Smaller clubs like Atalanta are in great difficulty now, as we are a very strong local competitor, and a much bigger club. Over the last few years Inter, Milan and Juventus have been investing heavily in their youth systems," Bianchessi said.

ECONOMIC REASONS

The Italian footballers' union AIC has been conducting its own study into the future facing Italy's young players, and early figures for the 2009-10 season suggest there is a serious problem with youth development.

Of the 1215 players playing in Serie A and B clubs' Primavera sides (oldest youth team age group, aged 15 to 20) that season, only 5 percent now play in Serie A and 11 percent in Serie B.

What will be even more shocking to some is that 58 percent do not play professional football at all in Italy.

The numbers do not specify those who have moved abroad or are still in their youth set-ups but 22 percent of all Primavera players from that season who are today registered as professional footballers are without a team to play for.

Of those who do play professionally in Italy, 58 percent are either on loan to or part-owned by other clubs, 67 percent of them to clubs in the Lega Pro First and Second Divisions (third and fourth tier).

According to the AIC, this is because Lega Pro clubs receive financial support from the Italian Football Federation for each player under the age of 22 they field. First Division clubs must field at least two and Second Division clubs three.

The AIC report says many clubs at this level exploit this rule "not to invest in promising young players, but only and exclusively for economic reasons".

It adds that 54 percent of the footballers playing at Primavera level in 2009/2010 have now left that set-up for good. Of those, 73 percent no longer play professional soccer, and only 9 percent play in Serie A or B.

"The (indirect and not wanted) effect of this rule ... is to encourage a 'throwaway' use of players under the age of 22," the report says.

"Boys that, in a given year, enable teams to obtain federal contributions, the following year are forced to stop playing professionally, not because they are no longer good enough but because they are no longer under 22."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45,352 Posts
I honestly can't see a problem whether clubs develop their own players or get the ones of other (Italian) clubs. Take Juventus: they have just 4 players in the roster who are grown in the club, but they have one player grown at Roma, one at Lazio, one at Inter, one at Milan, one at Parma, one at Atalanta, etc. so in the end isn't it exactly the same in sporting terms? Aren't we talking about Italian clubs? Should Juventus have kept Marco Rigoni, developed him and be happy with him instead of getting much better players?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,873 Posts
The reason why the bigger clubs are not ranked so high is simply because it is not in their interest to produce their "Own" players, it costs them much less to buy it from feeder clubs. On the other hand, clubs like Partizan and Hajduk Split their entire existence as clubs is dependent on their youth systems and selling those players to pay their bills because they don't have the source revenue from sponsors, merchandises, broadcasting deals, Champions league as the big clubs.

The most expensive tickets to watch Partizan during the CL qualifiers this year was 800 dinars (about 8 euros) and the stadiums are always empty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
I honestly can't see a problem whether clubs develop their own players or get the ones of other (Italian) clubs. Take Juventus: they have just 4 players in the roster who are grown in the club, but they have one player grown at Roma, one at Lazio, one at Inter, one at Milan, one at Parma, one at Atalanta, etc. so in the end isn't it exactly the same in sporting terms? Aren't we talking about Italian clubs? Should Juventus have kept Marco Rigoni, developed him and be happy with him instead of getting much better players?
EXACTLY!! It is absurd to grade one nation in regards of producing homegrown players just by using this statistics alone because it only takes into account one-team players. This practice rarely occurs especially when it comes to bigger leagues and bigger teams. Like the table shows, only 2 of the top 10 teams comes from top 5 football league in the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,005 Posts
BTW leaving out players who are in serie B can be very misleading as a part of them could become better players than the ones produced by MTK (for example, I don't want to be harsh to the Hungarian club), but even better than players who are right now in serie A. Don't forget in fact that very good players can be loaned out for one or more season to serie B/Lega Pro clubs. We have had plenty of examples.
But there is also the fact that Italy needs players to be better than those usually prodcued by, for example. MTK, if - eventually - the NT is to maintain its international competitiveness and, preferably, increase it.

I don't agree that very good young players are loaned out, even to other Serie A clubs. for example, at roma the only players I can remember who were able to become first team regulars after being loaned were Aquilani and Florenzi. It seems to me that when a big club loans a player out, the future of that player in the big club is already looking bleak.

Unless a player skips from the young team to the first team squad in a big club, usually he will have no future with them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,824 Posts
I will do what Toni talked about doing. Checking all players of serie A and B and see what clubs the players plied their youth football in. Some is a bit hard to judge though as they changed clubs as youth players...

first look, Atalanta have a lot of homegrown in their squad. 7 players.

About half of serie A looked at. this order so far: Atalanta - Milan - Roma - Juve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45,352 Posts
Some is a bit hard to judge though as they changed clubs as youth players...
yeah, my suggestion is:
1) choose the Italian bigger club over the Italian smaller club.
2) choose the Italian club over the foreign club no matter how big is the foreign club
3) if the clubs are comparable in seize (but I think it hardly happened if not at all) then choose the first

That is hardly the correct thing but will increase the number of players for each Italian club. :D
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top